BARTLETT:
Prime Minister, good morning to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Liam, nice to talk to you again.
BARTLETT:
Nice to talk to you too, thanks for coming on the programme. The Newspoll out this morning Prime Minister that's making all the headlines today, that's putting Labor in an election winning position by a reasonable margin, does that concern you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Polls are quite volatile. The last poll was different from this one. I think all I'd say is what I've been saying for a year and that is that winning the next election is going to be a very tough assignment for the Coalition. No Liberal Party supporters should take the outcome for granted and we have to focus on things that people are very concerned about.
Could I just mention that there is a fair amount of echo in the sound piece I've got. I don't know if anything can be done technically to fix that up but there's quite a lot of echo.
BARTLETT:
Well we'll get our technical people working on it now. It sounds fine this end if that's any consolation. Don't worry.
PRIME MINISTER:
Don't worry about me John, I understand.
BARTLETT:
She'll be right.
PRIME MINISTER:
She'll be right, yes.
BARTLETT:
No, no I didn't mean it like that.
PRIME MINISTER:
No I know you didn't.
BARTLETT:
We've got our technical people running around like... like mad donkeys right now.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good on you Liam.
BARTLETT:
Is that, you say, it's going to be tough no matter what. There are people saying well he would say that wouldn't he? I mean is that about incumbency, the time in office, or is that the workplace reforms that are pushing voters to Labor at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's a lot of things Liam, the fact that the next election is going to be tough. I think the longer you are in office, the more enemies you accumulate, that's true and I think the other factor to be borne in mind is that federal politics in this country has always been quite competitive. With a few exceptions only, since World War II, most federal elections in Australia have been determined by margins of less than two or three per cent of the two-party preferred vote so it's a naturally competitive arena and the Labor Party has never been a push over in federal elections. So that is why I've been saying for a year or more now that we must prepare for a very tough fight.
BARTLETT:
Could they kill you though, could those workplace reforms be your election death?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you're asking me to be a commentator. You're asking me do I believe in the workplace reforms, my answer is resoundingly yes because they are needed to further strengthen the Australian economy; that we cannot take prosperity for granted.
BARTLETT:
Come on, I mean you are an experienced politician.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am an experienced politician and that experience...
BARTLETT:
The most experienced politician. You know that what we need and what you and sell to the public is sometimes two different things.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I also know this that once the public believes that you have run out of a commitment for the future strengthening of the Australian economy, it's time you gave the game away. We can't just sit on our hands and take for granted the prosperity of earlier reforms. AWAs for example which are really the centre-piece of the argument about industrial relations have been very valuable to the resource industry in Western Australia and the resource industry has found great flexibility in additional prosperity in those AWAs and that's why the industry is united in its opposition to the Labor policy of abolishing them.
I'm not saying everybody should be on an AWA but AWAs should be part of the equation and therefore to abolish them is to strike a blow against the resource industry of Australia and most particularly the resource industry of Western Australia.
BARTLETT:
Prime Minister in that poll, in that Newspoll today, satisfaction with the way you are doing your job has dropped to an eight-month low. Why are you a little on the nose?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I will leave that for other people. I have plenty of people, there are people queuing up to nominate the reason for that so I won't deny them the opportunity.
BARTLETT:
Do you think voters see you though as being past your best?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look that is ultimately a matter for people to decide at the ballot box.
BARTLETT:
We saw the Treasurer running around yesterday leading the debate about giving Canberra more control of the economy and the ports and that sort of thing. Is that reflecting more of an occasional back seat role that you're happy to take?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think reform is always an important issue to be debated by all of my senior ministers and as far as Commonwealth-State relations are concerned the observation I would make is that people don't want to hear about Commonwealth-State relations in the context of an argument about who wields the power.
They want a debate about what is good for Australia and I am in favour of outcomes that are good for Australia and where it is good for Australia, that there be an adjustment of responsibility, I am in favour of it, but where it is just an argument about states' rights, which I think is a dated concept in this country or more power in Canberra I am not really interested. I am interested in outcomes that are good for the whole country.
BARTLETT:
Well what about this other outcome. I mean today Peter Costello is talking about changing the GST agreement to impose conditions on how the states spend their GST money. Is that a possibility?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think he said that.
BARTLETT:
Well that's what he's implying.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, I don't think so.
BARTLETT:
So it won't be touched?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there's no, there's absolutely no proposal before the Cabinet to alter that.
BARTLETT:
Well...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't know, well I mean you're the journalist you know how journalists generate stories don't you.
BARTLETT:
Oh Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, well...
BARTLETT:
You are not saying we are making it up are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't find anything in the papers this morning that sources to Mr Costello a suggestion that the disbursement of the GST be changed.
BARTLETT:
Well there are some quotes there from Tony Abbott, do you think it's Tony Abbott that's making them?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well no, no, well I (inaudible) think Tony Abbott talks about the GST. Tony Abbott was making an observation that I've made and I think anybody who listens to the Australian public has made that over the last few - well could I just answer about Tony, you asked me - over the last few years people are becoming more interested in outcomes as they affect the whole country, as to how they affect their local community and the idea of state loyalties is no where near as strong as it used to be.
BARTLETT:
Well maybe I am at fault there. I may have just automatically transposed that mentally to the Treasurer given that it's the GST and it's essentially his portfolio and also him talking about everything else. I mean I am sort of struggling to work out who's running the country at the moment.
PRIME MINISTER:
The Government.
BARTLETT: Who's making all the calls on this? Do you have a running sheet drawn up to divvy up which debates he can lead on and what you can respond to?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think we have been a very effective team and we will continue to be so.
BARTLETT:
Is that all you are going to say on the matter.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, it is. It is all I am going to say on that matter and you know that too.
BARTLETT:
He is looking more Prime Ministerial though isn't he?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think he is a very good colleague and he's done a wonderful job as Treasurer.
BARTLETT:
If you'd like to talk to the Prime Minister give us a ring now, 92211882 if you've got a question for the PM 92211882. Prime Minister the argy bargy between you and Sol Trujillo in recent days. What is the status of the Telstra sale, will it happen or not?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are yet to make a final decision on the timing of the sale. We are still committed to a full sale of the Government's remaining interest in Telstra which is a little over 50 per cent. We have always said that we are not going to sell it at a time which is bad for Australian taxpayers.
In other words we are not going to sell it at any price. We are never going to be a distressed seller and that wouldn't be in the interest of the Australian taxpayer, it's our responsibility having got the authority of parliament to sell, to sell at a time that maximises the outcome to the Australian people, and that's what we'll do. As to when that will be, I can't tell you that. We will be examining the issue further in the next little while, but I am not going to pre-empt the outcome of that examination.
BARTLETT:
Well that's the $64,000 question isn't it? When will that be, given the share price at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am not going speculate, we have to get some advice and we have to consider it and then make a decision and until we have gone through all of that I am not going to speculate.
BARTLETT:
Is it possible though that given the share price, it may not be this term of government?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am not going to speculate.
BARTLETT:
There's a story running around today Prime Minister about an abortion clinic that operates around Australia, around the country. They want to use a drug designed to treat cancer patients as a substitute for RU486 because they say it takes too long to get approval of RU486. Do you think those delays may be a product of Government pressure?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well no. You should perhaps ask the Therapeutic Goods Agency because remember we had a vote in Parliament.
BARTLETT:
Such an emotional debate.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I know but I am not aware of any Government pressure, I am certainly not involved in any, applying any pressure. The parliament decided to take the authority away from the Minister and give it to the TGA. So in those circumstances Parliament having decided to give it to the agency then the queries that people have should be directed to the agency and not to the Minister or to me, because I am not applying any pressure and I am not aware of any pressure being applied by any minister. Nobody said that to me and I certainly haven't given any authority for pressure to be applied and I would not. I accept the verdict of parliament, although I voted differently, in a free vote. But you should talk to the agency, Parliament has decided that the agency should have the authority so the agency will have to accept the responsibility as well.
BARTLETT:
Prime Minister we will just clear a very quick ad break and come back and take some of our calls. We've got people lining up to ask you some questions.
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure.
BARTLETT:
If you can bear with us for one moment, we will come back in a sec.
[ADVERTISEMENT BREAK]
BARTLETT:
And talking to the Prime Minister this morning, we'll take calls right through until nine o'clock. Thirteen to nine now, Ian's first up Prime Minister, good morning Ian? Good morning Ian?
CALLER:
Yeh I'm here, good morning.
BARTLETT:
Yeh how are you?
CALLER:
Good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Morning Ian.
CALLER:
Ah Prime Minister my... I'm a little nervous but my point is Peter Costello, I think you've done a real good job as Prime Minister and I vote Liberal but I find it pretty difficult to bring myself to vote for Peter Costello, I just don't think he comes over as preferred Prime Minister. I'd like to know your view on that. Obviously I'm putting you against the wall, but...I just think you're going to give the Labor a big in, Beazley could be back. That's just my thoughts. What about yours?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well my thoughts are that Peter has been a great Treasurer, he's a great colleague, he's a great Deputy Leader, the Prime Ministership is not vacant, I'm occupying it and I've indicated in the past, and I say it again, that I'll remain in this position as long as my party wants me to and it's in my party's best interests that I do so.
CALLER:
Well I think it's in the party's best interests as well. So that's good, thank you very much.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
BARTLETT:
Thanks Ian, good try. Hello Tom?
CALLER:
Ah hello Liam. Good morning Prime Minister. My question is how firm are you on this statement you made that you...David Hicks won't be allowed back in Australia? You see I agree with you and I reckon he should never be allowed back in Australia because he committed treason against his birthplace by fighting with the Taliban.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm quite firm in my statement that I do not want him to comeback to Australia without first facing a trial in the United States. That's what I've said. I'm not in favour of asking the Americans to let him go without trial because if he comes back to Australia he can't be tried because the offences that he is alleged to have committed were not crimes under Australian law at the time he committed him, and therefore he would effectively go free without charge in this country.
Our position on David Hicks always has been that he should be brought to trial in the United States as soon as possible. We are not happy with the delay that's occurred. A lot of it's been due in recent times to the court challenge.
Now the Supreme Court has brought down it's decision, we're asking the Americans to respond to that - either by adjusting the terms and conditions of the military commission, having a court martial or a trial in a civilian court - and they are looking at that at the moment and they'll be letting us know very soon what their response is. But my position is...
BARTLETT:
Four and half years Prime Minister to get to trial, four and half years, as an old lawyer you should be ashamed of that, shouldn't you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well bear in mind of course that many of the critics have suggested that he should have been treated as a prisoner of war and if he'd been treated as a prisoner of war, technically he would've been kept in custody until the war's over, which could be indefinitely.
Look I'm not happy with the time it's taken but we are dealing with an unusual situation and you have to bear in mind the allegation against him is a very serious allegation, that he trained with Al Qaeda, the allegation is that even after the 11th of September he returned to Afghanistan in the full knowledge of what had happened. Now that's the allegation that's made against him and the sooner it is brought before a court or a lawfully constituted military commission, or court martial the better.
BARTLETT:
Thanks for your call Tom. Hello Simon.
CALLER:
Hi guys, how are you? Mr Prime Minister how are you mate?
BARTLETT:
I'm very well Simon.
CALLER:
It's nice to speak to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good, good to speak to you mate.
CALLER:
First of all, congratulations on your Prime Ministership, the 30 years I've been alive, I think you're the best Prime Minister I've ever seen. There are things obviously that don't go in your favour but that's obviously understandable, that's just human nature I suppose, but well done anyway.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
CALLER:
Probably for the first time in a year I've (inaudible) a little bit unrepresentative in regards to being an Australian citizen with Indonesia. I feel as if, maybe not just the Liberals, but politicians in general think that they'll...can you say bow? Yeh probably bow to Indonesia's demands in regards to all diplomatic affairs. You know for the first time really in a year I feel as if I'm not being represented as an Australian citizen. Does that make sense to you at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
I understand exactly what you're saying. Let me try and respond. We're not bowing to Indonesia. We do however believe, because Indonesia is our nearest neighbour, a very big country that we should try and get on with Indonesia, providing it's on a basis of mutual respect. And it's very important if we want to stop illegal immigrants coming to Australia that we have Indonesia's cooperation.
BARTLETT:
But Prime Minister, Simon is saying what a lot of Australia's feel that is we're not getting the respect the other way, it's not mutual.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it is, but I say to Simon that I understand why he might feel otherwise. I think the Indonesians deserve a little more understanding in relation to what they've done in their fight against terrorism. They certainly have convicted and sentenced either to death or to long terms of imprisonment all of the people, or most of the people directly involved in the Bali attack and those sentences have been very severe. It's a difficult relationship we have with Indonesia and I understand why a lot of Australians feel as you do.
On the other hand it's not in our interests to have a permanently strained relationship and in the current President we have the most pro-Australian Indonesian President since the country became independent.
BARTLETT:
That's a big call.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, no, but it's true, it is a big call.
CALLER:
(inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
I beg your pardon?
CALLER:
(inaudible) doesn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I understand that point. We are very different countries and it's easy to feel indifferent towards Indonesia because it's very different from Australia, it's much bigger, its culture's different, its majority of religion is very different.
On the other hand, Indonesia's undertaken enormous change over the last few years. It's become more democratic, it's the third largest democracy in the world, the current President is strongly committed to the fight against corruption-there is a lot of corruption still in Indonesia. I understand that-but it's our nearest neighbour and we have to try and strike a balance between, on the one hand, respecting the big differences, but on the other hand knowing that we need in our joint interests to work together.
I mean if the Indonesians decided to stop cooperating in relation to illegal immigrants, we could easily have a resumption of hundreds of boat people coming to this country and that would not be helpful at all.
BARTLETT:
Simon thanks for your question. Seven minutes to nine, talking to the Prime Minister this morning. Jane's on the line Prime Minister, good morning Jane?
CALLER:
Good morning Sir. I just want to say that because Peter Costello was brought up earlier that I studied him for a long time because there are a lot of people who seem to be against him, but I think he would be a wonderful prime minister after you Sir... but I'm really very much in favour of him and I hear so many people against him, I really don't understand it. I think he's a wonderful Australian. I think he is Australian and I think he likes us, I just want to say that. And thank you for being Prime Minister because I think you've done a wonderful job except of your IR laws, I hate them.
PRIME MINISTER:
But they are good for the long term benefit of the country.
CALLER:
I just got (inaudible) recently Sir, so I'm starting to understand them a little better.
BARTLETT:
Jane, Jane when do you think Peter Costello would be a good PM?
CALLER:
After, after Mr Howard wants to go. I think that he's been the best Prime Minister that I have seen in this country and I love what he's done with the country, we have come forward and I think we've come forward very well. Time will tell whether the new IR laws will continue to take us in the same very good direction.
BARTLETT:
Alright, thanks for your call this morning.
CALLER:
Thank you.
BARTLETT:
Well there you go, there's a dyed in the wool voter who obviously votes for you til the cows come home, Prime Minister and she hates the IR laws, she doesn't like them either, it just goes to show why that Newspoll was so bad for you and so good for Labor.
PRIME MINISTER:
Part of good government Liam is to go through a process of introducing a new law which initially might attract criticism but which in your heart you know is good for the long term strength of the country. You've got to persevere with it. If I reacted to the first piece of adverse criticism or even criticism of something in the early months of its operation, if I reacted and withdrew things then I wouldn't be much of a Prime Minister. We need these changes to further strengthen our economy.
We need in a globalised world to have a more flexible industrial relations system. We need an industrial relations system that covers the whole country. I mean we've just had a debate earlier about Commonwealth State relations, I mean we are one single economy, we're not eight separate economies and we've got to have a set of laws that covers the whole economy, and the people who are standing against that are the Labor Party and the unions, the people who are standing for it are the Coalition parties.
BARTLETT:
Could I just get a definitive answer from you on this? The GST agreement between the States, Territories and the Commonwealth. Will that be changed or altered? Do you want it to be changed or altered?
PRIME MINISTER:
We have no plans in front of us to change it.
BARTLETT:
Nothing at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
We have no plans in front of us to change it, that is all I can say and that report or the extrapolation that you made from that report about Mr Costello having said something was... I'm not criticising you but it's not accurate.
BARTLETT:
Well leave that out it, I just want to know...
PRIME MINISTER:
No well I've given you my answer, my answer is we have no plans before us to alter the agreement.
BARTLETT:
Or modify it in anyway?
PRIME MINISTER:
We have no plans before us, no.
BARTLETT:
Ted's on the line, hello Ted?
CALLER:
Yes good morning Liam and good morning Prime Minister? The question I wanted to ask, I believe that Telstra is already owned by the Australian taxpayers and we've well and truly paid for that establishment over the years. How can you actually sell it (inaudible) because we do own it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the Government owns it.
CALLER:
Yeh but you only earn it because we pay for it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeh well we own it in the name of the Australian people. But this is the same argument about any privatisation. And all we're proposing to do with Telstra is what the former Labor Government did with the Commonwealth Bank and Qantas. The Government owned the Commonwealth Bank, the Government owned Qantas and we sold shares in it to individual Australians.
Now I understand your argument and I'm not technically disagreeing with it, I acknowledge that if an asset is owned by the Government it is held in trust for the Australian people, but that is not inconsistent with selling individual shares in that ownership to individual Australians. And what we're doing with Telstra is exactly the same as was done with the Commonwealth Bank and with Qantas.
BARTLETT:
Alright, we'll try and squeeze you one more call. Ben's on the line, hello Ben?
CALLER:
Morning, hello Australians. Look John, I'm a teacher, I've been teaching for quite considerable years, nearly 50 years, I want to say to you and to any other Australian our Western Australian education is a shambles, I've never seen it in such a disarray in all of my teaching years. And I don't know what's going to happen but this OBE is disastrous.
PRIME MINISTER:
This new syllabus?
CALLER:
Well you can call it whatever you like, but I'm telling you...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeh, well I sympathise with you and I'm interested in what you're saying. I think there are...there is too much modernist junk in education around Australia and I think you are echoing the views, not only of lots of teachers, but echoing the views of many parents and it's another reason why the imposition of some kind of national standards is desirable.
BARTLETT:
We'll have to leave it there. Prime Minister thanks very much for coming in today and being part of our programme, being available to our audience, we appreciate it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you Liam, I've enjoyed it.
[ends]