SPEERS:
Prime Minister thanks for your time. There are a lot of heartbroken fans today...
PRIME MINISTER:
About 20 million I think.
SPEERS:
Both in Australia and here and in Germany as well, it was a disappointing way for the Socceroos to go and now another four years to wait.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes it was, they were magnificent, considering it's, what, since 1974 that we got into the finals and to get into the second round and to hold the Italians to 93 minutes without them scoring a goal and then to have a penalty right on the knocker, that's about as tough and as disappointing as it can get.
SPEERS:
Now what did you think of that penalty because Guus says it was no penalty?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I thought it was pretty debatable but it's happened and there's nothing we can do about it. But I can understand how Guus feels. I spoke to Mark Viduka straight after the game and I think he understood how everybody felt. They did play remarkably well in the second half, although of course the Italians were one player down for most of the second half, they did play incredibly well, much better I believe in the second half than even the first half. And to have held it to a scoreless situation considering the legendary power of Italian soccer, it's just amazing.
SPEERS:
You also spoke just minutes after the match to Frank Lowy and John O'Neill. What did you say to them about the overall World Cup campaign?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh I congratulated them. I think Frank and John have lifted football, have lifted soccer, from being a widely played grass roots game but never being able to crack it on the national-international stage. They've transformed that miraculously in a very short period of time and they together, the businessmen and the consummate sports administrator, have done wonderful things for Australian sport.
SPEERS:
And no doubt when the boys get home there'll be some sort of parade or reception for them?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they'll obviously want to meet the people. I think this is an occasion for the people of Australia to show them what they think of them.
SPEERS:
Now you're not here in Indonesia to talk about the soccer of course, you're here for talks. You've had talks with the Indonesian President, aimed at patching up what's been a fairly troubled relationship recently. Were you disappointed that he didn't really give a great deal of ground on Abu Bakar Bashir? He largely ignored your requests for tougher sanctions?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think if you read what he said, that's not quite right. If you read his acknowledgement of how deeply we feel about the behaviour of that man and if you bear in mind his declaration that Indonesia would, in its fight against terrorism, take whatever action were needed to pre-empt terrorist behaviour.
SPEERS:
You're reading that as monitoring Abu Bakar Bashir?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, what country ever identifies people it's keeping under surveillance, David, come on.
SPEERS:
But Indonesia is still not committing to freezing his assets, preventing him travelling overseas, outlawing Jemaah Islamiah, or stopping him preaching in these schools, is that satisfactory?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we will continue to argue for the things that were contained in my letter. Equally, of course, President Yudhoyono will continue to argue for things that he's put to me in relation to refugees. But in the end different countries make their decisions according to law and according to their own priorities. I don't think anybody can doubt that Indonesia hates terrorism, I don't think anybody can doubt that Indonesia worked very hard to bring to law and to justice, the people who murdered 88 Australians in Bali. And they tried to convict Bashir of that, but they failed before the courts. Now sad though we maybe of that, we must accept, just as the Indonesians have to accept decisions made in accordance with Australian law.
SPEERS:
On the West Papuan issue, the President did seem to indicate that he would like more consultation if more asylum seekers do arrive in Australia from Indonesia. Would that mean consulting the Indonesians on individual cases?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh people who arrive in Australia unlawfully will be dealt with in accordance with Australian law. We don't negotiate with any country the way in which we handle people who come to this country, they'll be processed and dealt with in accordance with Australian law.
SPEERS:
And just to clarify it, was Abu Bakar Bashir actually discussed in your face-to-face meeting?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, extensively.
SPEERS:
And did you say to the President that...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I repeated to him in our meeting what I had said in those letters.
SPEERS:
Well you also talked about East Timor and the resignation of Mari Alkatiri. What was the sentiment from Indonesia on what used to be a province, something that you did not want to see break away, was there any sense of, you know, I told you so?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, absolutely not. Very much a positive attitude, worry about the security of the country, it's future, thanking Australia for our involvement; there was not a trace of any lingering resentment in relation to the events of 1999.
SPEERS:
Well East Timor now has to choose a new Prime Minister, do you think Jos‚ Ramos-Horta would fit the bill?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's not a good idea for me to give a commentary on the internal political affairs of another country. I don't think that is the least bit helpful. I'm pleased that they're moving towards a resolution of the impasse, that's a very good thing, but I'm not going to nominate who the Prime Minister should be, that's a matter for the East Timorese.
SPEERS:
Looking back to 1999, you urged Indonesia to allow a special autonomy for East Timor, they took a much bigger step in a ballot for independence. In hindsight was that too big a step, too early for East Timor?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't think so. I do not think it's the right thing to say 1999 was all a mistake, I don't think it was a mistake at all. I think the people of East Timor wanted their independence and they, out of the blue as it were, had the opportunity and by their votes in that referendum, supervised by the United Nations, they overwhelmingly embraced independence. So that's the answer. The democratic answer, David, is always the right answer.
SPEERS:
What does the future hold for East Timor and for our troops there? I mean are we looking at a very lengthy deployment?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't want a very lengthy deployment no, but we'll obviously not leave chaos and disorder behind and I don't believe we will. My message to the Indonesian, to the East Timorese political leadership is resolve your problems so you can resume control of your own future and at a respectable time after that, Australia can take her troops and police out. But I don't see that happening immediately. But I don't want the East Timorese to think they are there indefinitely because they are not.
SPEERS:
You're off now to China where you and Premier Wen will be launching the new LNG project. It's a huge deal for Australia, $25 billion, how significant is this deal in terms of our trading relationship?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's hugely significant. It's the largest single trade agreement that Australia has ever completed and given the enormous economic expansion of China and her voracious need for energy, it could be not only a big deal in its own right, but the beginning of an enormous additional segment of Australia's trade with China.
SPEERS:
You're also discussing the progress on a Free Trade Agreement with China. How are those negotiations going?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh those negotiations are going well. They're never easy, bilateral free trade negotiations, because there has to be give and take on both sides and I think they are making progress. But I've always said that even if we don't succeed in negotiating a Free Trade Agreement with China, it will still be a fantastic trading relationship. China is our second best export destination now behind Japan, and the way in which it's grown in the last few years has been quite remarkable.
SPEERS:
The US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, in Australia earlier this year, made a couple of comments about China, that they really should be playing by the international rules when it comes to the economy and that they should be more open about their military build up. Do you share those concerns when we talk about the rise of China?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think China is changing. I think the relationship between China and the United States is one of the most crucial in the whole world situation and Australia is a country that has, of course, a close and abiding relationship with the United States. We're not as close to any other country and we're unlikely to be in the future, but we do come at China from a slightly different perspective and I think in that way we can, I guess, be of assistance with the views we offer on China. I think China is becoming more open, but equally it's a very different system from that of Australia or from the United States. It is not run in the same way as our country is. It's not an open democracy and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
SPEERS:
And do you ever see a point at which any tensions between China and the United States are going to come to a crunch for Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, I'm working hard to make sure that never happens and I'm optimistic enough to believe it won't. China has an interest in stable acceptance, not only in the region but in the world because that's crucial to her economic growth. I mean China's preoccupation at the moment is economic growth and expansion and also dealing with the rather growing divide between the coastal affluent and the not so affluent people who live in the rural areas of the country. So there are domestic issues that will keep China's focus very much on economic, rather than military matters.
SPEERS:
You've been accused through your industrial relations changes of driving wages down to try and compete with countries like China and lower wages there. There is a week of action underway back home in Australia this week against your industrial relations changes. Will you be looking at how the workforce operates in China, picking up any ideas there?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. But I will be looking at the week of action and I'll be reminding the Australian people that Mr Combet in this morning's press has blown the cover, given it away. He said, very boldly, there used to be a day, a time, when the unions ran Australia and it wouldn't be a bad idea if that came back. Now this reveals in one sentence what this campaign is all about. It's not about the welfare of unionists, it's not about getting the unemployed back into work, it's not about boosting their real wages, it's about union power and Greg Combet said it all. He said we used to run Australia, and they did, and if Labor won, they'd be running Australia again because they bullied Kim Beazley into getting rid of those AWAs and their sole purpose is to reclaim the powerful position they once had in Australia. I don't think Australians want that because they know that things weren't so flash when they did run the country.
SPEERS:
Prime Minister, a couple of quick issues. David Hicks, the British say that they will not be lobbying for his release from Guantanamo Bay, even though he is now a British citizen. Does that surprise you at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. Well it's always been a matter for the British. We have not canvassed a particular point of view with the British and we have said repeatedly that it was a matter for the British. Now it's self evident that David Hicks, until quite recently, has regarded himself as an Australian and we have provided him with consular assistance. We will go on doing that. I hope that the Supreme Court decision in the case of Hamden versus Rumsfeld, which is holding up Hicks' military commission trial, I hope that decision is brought down soon. And if the go-ahead is given, then we can have the trial and let the matter proceed because it's been held up, not by us or the Americans, but indeed by Mr Hicks and others who've challenged the authority of the military commission.
SPEERS:
And a domestic matter. The media reforms you've been hoping to push through. Rupert Murdoch doesn't seem to be terribly impressed with them. We should acknowledge he is a part owner of Sky News. He has said that basically you should either tear up everything and make it an open go for everybody, otherwise leave it alone. Does it concern you that the media owners aren't on side?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well nothing especially concerns me about this issue because I've said all along, and you'll recall it stretching back several years, it's not something on which I intend to spend an enormous amount of time or political capital. I don't think anybody suggests we don't have a pretty robust media in Australia. I would like to see the restrictions on foreign ownership and the cross media prohibitions removed, and Cabinet will be considering the matter again and we take everybody's views into account including Mr Murdoch's. But in the end, the Government will make a sensible decision based on both principle and commonsense.
SPEERS:
The Nationals aren't terribly impressed with much of these plans either. They fear the impact on rural media. Is the timeframe here, getting this through by the end of the year, now looking pretty far fetched?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I didn't know that we'd actually set that as timeframe. I thought all we said was that we'd find out people's views and then have another look at it. Helen Coonan, who's done a great job, has put out a discussion paper and she's gathering views, and we've heard one of them, and we'll gather some more views and then we'll have a discussion.
SPEERS:
The Telstra sale is the other big thing the Government's hoping to get through by the end of the year. It does look like a fairly busy six months towards the end of the year. Will you be there?
PRIME MINISTER:
I could see that coming.
SPEERS:
No point sugar coating it Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Not a very well disguised googly that one.
SPEERS:
Well it's a legitimate concern in your Party Room though.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh I don't think people are concerned, except to have good government and an argument as to why the Coalition should remain in office. But my position on that matter has not changed. I think you will acknowledge that I'm very focussed on my job and that's how it remains.
SPEERS:
Prime Minister thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]