MITCHELL:
Today on the line in Sydney, he's just back from his trip to India so he is on the telephone, the Prime Minister, Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Neil.
MITCHELL:
You can't help us with this one can you? You are not just the Prime Minister you're a lawyer too.
PRIME MINISTER:
I didn't know about it until I just heard you a moment ago. It is ridiculous, people take themselves too seriously. The Commonwealth Games is a great event but it is not national security, the opening ceremony. It is different, I think it is ridiculous, I share your outrage.
MITCHELL:
Perhaps you will represent me if Steve Bracks tries to fine me?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'll have to do it for nothing though. I'd have a conflict of interest otherwise.
MITCHELL:
I guess there is an important part because we do ask the media to keep certain secrets for security issues and that is fair enough, but this is quite different.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes. My experience is that most of the media on something that is really a serious security issue are very good. That has been my experience over the last 10 years, but this seems to me to be, I guess, an over-focus on the immediate and losing a sense of proportion. I mean after all an opening ceremony is an opening ceremony and if it gets out, well pity, but good luck to the journalist; that is the nature of the craft and we can't be penalising people for being sleuths.
MITCHELL:
Now the Commonwealth Games, you'll be basing yourself here?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I will be spending a lot of time there. I do intend of course to come down on next Wednesday and I hope to come on Sunday to see some of the athletes; again on Wednesday. I will need to spend a couple of days in Sydney to see Condoleezza Rice, who is coming out next week. But for most of the time the Games are on I will be working out of my office in Melbourne, or going to the Games.
MITCHELL:
Will you have the Cabinet here as well, Cabinet meetings?
PRIME MINISTER:
We probably will yes, but I am not absolutely certain about that.
MITCHELL:
Is this a time of heightened risk from a security point of view?
PRIME MINISTER:
Both yes and no. As a congregation of people it goes on of course for what, two weeks, but on any given day as a congregation of people it is no greater than say, an AFL Grand Final is it; or a Boxing Day Test. There are plenty of major events that bring up to 80, 100,000 Australians together in one spot. High profile sporting events you would think are a logical target for fanatics. There is a heightened risk but we know the odds in relation to something like this, life has got to go on. I am sure that everything is being done by the security people, by the Victorian Police. There has been very good co-operation between the Federal Police and ASIO and the military and the local police. The whole operation has gone very well and I do want to congratulate Ron Walker's organising committee and the Victorian Government on the job they have done. Everybody has worked together extremely well.
MITCHELL:
And are you happy with eight bars of God Save the Queen?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look we have moved on from that. We have moved on from it. Look, I had a view and I suppose what has come out is something of a compromise. The only observation I would make is that there was some suggestion in the reporting of it that the proposal was, from some, that God Save the Queen should be played instead of our own national anthem. That was never the case, it was only that it should be played in addition; of course our own national anthem is played. But look we've moved on from that.
MITCHELL:
I know some were urging the singing of the Royal Anthem regardless, but that would just embarrass The Queen, surely?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think that is a good idea. When I was asked about it I stated the obvious and that is, that when Advance Australia Fair was established as our national anthem by Bob Hawke back in 1984, with our support then in opposition, it was said that when The Queen was present you would play God Save the Queen as well, not in substitution, never in substitution for our own anthem. Advance Australia Fair is our anthem and anybody who was arguing, it was certainly my position, was arguing that when she was present you additionally play God Save the Queen. But if there is eight bars and Happy Birthday that is all good and let's move on.
MITCHELL:
The Qantas jobs, are you concerned by what Qantas is doing; looks like still moving some jobs offshore?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it is a major public company, it does have to make commercial decisions, you can't have the Government double guessing it. Certainly for the time being jobs are not going offshore, I thought that was the good thing that came out of yesterday's announcement. There is a net loss of jobs and that is regrettable. There is a significant gain of jobs in Victoria and loss of jobs, a significant loss of jobs, in New South Wales. Now I, as you know I don't play; take sides in relation to where people are located in Australia. It is all the same as far as I am concerned and clearly Avalon and Brisbane will do very well out of this and New South Wales not so well. Part of it is due to operational pressures at Sydney Airport. I would think that what the company has done has been to make a very determined effort not to send jobs offshore and I welcome that.
MITCHELL:
Having said it is a private company though, it does get a good deal from Government doesn't it? There are certain levels of protection for Qantas.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well not as great as the levels of protection that are given to other national flag carriers. It doesn't get a particularly preferential deal in relation to taxation for example. It has depreciation arrangements which are no better than those that operate around the world. In fact I'd argue that they are less favourable. I think Qantas operates as much as any airline does and more than most on a level playing field.
MITCHELL:
Can I just ask you quickly about petrol? I know you are just back in the country. Petrol prices are high and nobody seems to be able to explain why. I mean if you take the figures and sort of put them through the usual calculator they should be about 10 or 15 cents cheaper. Have you got any idea about what is going on?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't think it is any different, unless there is something that I'm misinformed on, I don't think it is any different from what it has been for a very long time; that there is frequently a lag between a fall in the crude oil price and the level of the price at the bowser which has something to do with the immediate availability of oil stocks around the world. There is always a lag; you get this situation where the price will go up and there is a lag in the time when that is reflected in the bowser and equally when it goes down there is a lag when it is reflected at the bowsers.
MITCHELL:
So obviously the public's suspicion is that there is profiteering going on.
PRIME MINISTER:
I understand that, I don't know that anything I can ever say, or anybody in my position can ever say will ever allay people's concerns. The truth is we do not like high petrol prices in this country because we love our motor cars and no matter how logical the explanation may be that the price of petrol is ultimately determined by the price of crude oil people will be suspicious at the margin that there is profiteering.
MITCHELL:
There is no indication you're aware of, of profiteering.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, not excessive profiteering. Companies are entitled to look for their profits, they are entitled to good returns and they won't operate otherwise, but I am not aware of any new elements of profiteering, no.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a break and come back with callers.
MITCHELL:
The Prime Minister just back from India in his office in Sydney, we'll take some calls. Mr Howard, Phil Ruddock I know said that he supported the English idea that only English be spoken in mosques, do you agree with him?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it's very desirable. I'm not in favour of passing laws on things like that but there is an advantage in that. I think there is a vast advantage in people speaking the indigenous tongue, if I can put it like that, and English is that.
MITCHELL:
So does that apply to Hebrew and synagogues?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think the situation is that certain parts of services in synagogues are conducted in Hebrew and I wouldn't have thought the homily was conducted in Hebrew.
MITCHELL:
Hello Michael go ahead please Michael
CALLER:
G'day Neil. I haven't heard much outrage from the media or politicians about the four that were acquitted from the south, from the North Korean vessel that was...
MITCHELL:
The Pong Su.
CALLER:
... that was caught off the coast, yeah.
MITCHELL:
Well they are entitled to be acquitted under the system but there is an interesting point there. Prime Minister there was really direct suggestion that the North Korean government was involved in smuggling, attempting to smuggle heroin into this country.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I know that but you said it a moment ago, that we do have a legal system in this country and if somebody is tried and acquitted it is a very bad thing for political figures from myself down to be putting themselves above the legal system. We are told time and time again we live under the rule of law. The rule of law says that a person is entitled to due process; it says that if that person is acquitted, it is, that is the end of the matter subject to any appeal by the Crown against the verdict and that has to be on extraordinary, because of extraordinary circumstances, you can't just appeal.
MITCHELL:
Well that's true but we have people convicted in this case and there is very solid evidence of the North Korean involvement.
PRIME MINISTER:
I know but...
MITCHELL:
The government involvement, officials...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes look I understand that and look I have got a view but the gentleman asks why there hasn't been an outcry, I suppose the outcry is, the reason there hasn't been an outcry is the reason that you stated. I don't know that we want to get into a situation that every time there is a court decision that the Prime Minister disagrees with, he attacks the decision. That would be a very very bad development.
MITCHELL:
But if you take those four men out of it, we do have men convicted and we do have evidence of involvement of the North Korean government, now have we objected to the North Korean government, they're trying to dump heroin in this country?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am sure those views have been made known but not in the context of this particular case.
MITCHELL:
Okay, now you're, there are reports today that an idea for linking, directly linking Aboriginal welfare to...
PRIME MINISTER:
The Noel Pearson idea?
MITCHELL:
Yes the Noel Pearson idea, the Government examining Aboriginal welfare linked to making the kids go to school. Does that appeal to you the idea?
PRIME MINISTER:
It does as a concept. I think anything that instils a greater level of responsibility in all parents and I'm not just talking about Aboriginal children, I don't think it's something if you are serious about, that you should limit it to Aboriginal children but it's a proposal that has emanated from the Aboriginal community and we are examining it. It's obviously something that will have a lot practical challenges but as a concept what Mr Pearson is getting at is good.
MITCHELL:
Do you see the concept extending to all welfare payments, care for your kids or you don't get the dole?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's a bit early to be saying it's even going to be applied to indigenous children but I do not object to it being looked at as a concept.
MITCHELL:
Hello Phil, go ahead please Phil.
CALLER:
Thank you Neil, hello Mr Howard welcome back to Australia. Just changing the topic slightly with taxation I was wondering if there was any opportunity in the future for you to discuss with the party income splitting for PAYG people and potentially tax breaks on mortgages and things like that, is there any chance of making reforms in that way?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if you take each of those; we have looked at tax deductions for mortgage payments and we have decided that the tax system already gives enormous advantages to home ownership. We don't have capital gains tax on the family home, we continue to support negative gearing and interest rates are very low. In those circumstances we don't think having tax deductibility on mortgage payments should be introduced because we think that would further skew investment into property and away from other areas that are in need of investment. In relation to income splitting the Family Tax Benefit system delivers the same benefits of income splitting, that income splitting does, for people earning up to about $70,000 a year when the youngest child is under five and it's a more targeted way of delivering that help. I am conceptually sympathetic to what you've raised, we decided when we came into office that we'd do it through the Family Tax Benefits system which effectively means that a single income family on an income of up to about $65,000 or $70,000 where the youngest child is under five has the same benefits as if that single income was split between the husband and the wife.
MITCHELL:
I think Phil's question indicates Prime Minister there is certainly an expectation of tax relief in the next Budget given the predicted size of the surplus, is that a reasonable expectation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I know there is an expectation, I can only give that, I know, boring response, that we'll pay for defence and education and health and all those other things and have a surplus and if anything is left over, we'd want to give tax relief but just how much that is going to be and what form it might take, if it occurs, I am afraid we haven't decided yet.
MITCHELL:
So it's still an if?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes because we don't know the final numbers and we haven't made final decisions in relation to these other things. I am not making a commitment. We take the view that once you've provided for the necessaries and have a surplus and we are in the good position that the country will be free of net debt for the first time since Federation at the end of this financial year and that is a remarkable economic achievement; we take the view that if there is anything left over it ought to be returned to the people whose money it is and that's the Australian taxpayer. But we don't know the dimension of that and we certainly haven't made final decisions on things that we need to invest in.
MITCHELL:
The Sydney man Ahmed Jamal has been jail in northern Iraq for 18 months without charge says he's being tortured with electricity amongst other things, is the Government representing him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, yes we have been endeavouring, I got a brief on this, this morning, endeavouring to and we have made contact with him, there have been consular visits, or at least one consular visit and the results of that have been reported to his family and to his lawyer.
MITCHELL:
Is he being tortured?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's the allegation, we can't substantiate that either way obviously, but we're endeavouring to help him and obviously as an Australian citizen we'll continue to do so.
MITCHELL:
Why is he in jail; he hasn't been charged for 18 months?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he's in a country whose legal system at present, because of the circumstances of that country, does not operate the way ours does and he is in another country and obviously other countries legal systems don't operate as seamlessly and as fairly as ours does.
MITCHELL:
Presumably they're our friends because we're there.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I realise that and we in part have been able to make contact with him because of representations made to representatives of the Iraqi people here in Australia and he's in Kurdistan, the Kurdish part of Iraq, and we'll continue to help him in every way we can.
MITCHELL:
You mentioned you were going to meet Condoleezza Rice next week, she is quoted today as saying Iran is now the world's main or major problem, do you agree?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the nuclear issue with Iran is a huge worry because Iran is obviously behaving outside her obligation under the treaty she signed, the nuclear treaty, and so far has been quite unresponsive and only agrees to talk to people when a lot of pressure is applied. This will be an interesting test for the United Nations. People who are critical of George Bush and myself and Tony Blair and others over Iraq because we didn't keep endlessly going back to the United Nations in 2003, now have an opportunity to see how effectively the United Nations will work. I am in favour of this matter going to the United Nations, I am in favour of the United Nations exercising all the influence it can to bring about a change in Iran and let's hope that it works.
MITCHELL:
The Defence Minister Brendan Nelson saying today teachers are really dissuading kids from going into military careers because they are sort of anti-military, do you think he's got a fair point?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I have heard it in relation to some. I'd make the general observation that in the community at the present time the Defence Force is held in very high regard, I can't think of a time in the last 20 or 30 years when the Defence Forces of Australia have been held in higher regard. You sense it as you move around the community that people have great regard for our military and whilst I'd be the last person to be a slavish follower of an individual opinion poll, there was some research carried out by the University of Queensland (* Queensland University of Technology) recently which indicated that of all Australian institutions, none had risen more significantly in public esteem in recent years than the military which is a sign that the public like the Defence Forces. But I guess there are some teachers who do that but I would hope that it's a small minority.
MITCHELL:
A quick question from Kath, the last question, yes Kath?
CALLER:
I would like to know why the price of gas has gone up, have you put a levy on it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No.
CALLER:
Cause it used to be down to about 40 and now it's up to 59.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we haven't put a levy on it, it must just be the operation of the market but we have not put any levy on it.
MITCHELL:
It is puzzling, we've been trying to get to the bottom of this for a while. The trip to India were you, did you enjoy looking back and seeing Labor party in self destruct?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I obviously follow the news but I have a bit of a rule of not saying much about the internal travails of the other side, it sounds coming from me, rather self serving and predictable and a bit disingenuous.
MITCHELL:
Yes but you were talking up Simon Crean you must have been pleased to see him back...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I was pleased he survived, he's been in the show a long time, and his family has a great history in the Labor party. I knew his father very well, he was in parliament when I came in, I like Frank he's a good bloke. But Neil you know (inaudible) there's nothing worse than somebody in my position publicly talking too much about what happens on the other side. They can look after themselves.
MITCHELL:
Will Tony Blair be here for the Commonwealth Games?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes he will be.
MITCHELL:
Will you get in his ear and say bloody hell?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I think the body, whatever it is in England, that imposed that ban has done more for the Australian Tourism Commission promotion than we could have possibly dreamed of.
MITCHELL:
Also have you read what Germaine Greer was saying about you yesterday?
PRIME MINISTER:
I did see it yes.
MITCHELL:
Did that offend you, I found it quite offensive?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't have any regard for anything she says and I don't think I will dignify her by expressing any public offence.
MITCHELL:
That's fair enough. Now you understand you have agreed to act as my solicitor if I am...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, yes, on a purely honorary basis though Neil.
MITCHELL:
Have you still got your ticket to practice?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am still a solicitor of the Supreme Court of New South Wales. I think I would have to pay a fee to take out a practising certificate so you might have to help me on that.
MITCHELL:
We'll have to raise the money, thank you for speaking with us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
[ends]