MITCHELL:
In our Sydney studio is the Prime Minister. Mr Howard good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
MITCHELL:
Well the Islamic Friendship Association and others are very critical of the Treasurer, calling for you to censure him. Will you?
PRIME MINISTER:
No.
MITCHELL:
Why not?
PRIME MINISTER:
Because what he said was fundamentally accurate.
MITCHELL:
Could he have worded it better?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh no. I mean everybody has their own way of expressing things and I'm not critical of the language he used in any way and the thrust of what he said, I think you'll appreciate, is very similar to remarks that I have made over a long period of time. Everyone knows that I don't use the word multiculturalism very much and the reason I don't use it very much is that is has been used in a very zealous, to use Peter's expression, mushy fashion by some over the years. To many people multiculturalism simply means that we are tolerant to people of different cultural backgrounds, now if that's all it means, then it's a fine concept. We are tolerant to people of different backgrounds but over the years at its zenith, the more zealous multiculturalism basically said that this country should be a federation of cultures. You can't have a nation with a federation of cultures. You can have a nation where a whole variety of cultures constantly influence and mould and change and blend in with the mainstream culture, but a nation that doesn't have a core culture and the core culture of this nation is very clear; we are an outshoot of western civilisation. Because we speak the English language our cultural identity is very heavily Anglo-Saxon. It doesn't mean that it isn't distinctively Australian, but you have to recognise that there is a core set of values in this country.
MITCHELL:
What are they? What are the core values? I mean I don't want Peter Costello deciding what my values should be.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, but as the Prime Minister or as the Treasurer we are expected to have views. You asked me what are they. I'm not trying to impose values on anybody.
MITCHELL:
No but isn't Mr Costello saying if you don't stick by our values get out? Now who decides what the values are?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think what Peter was basically saying is that if people don't like what this country is then they shouldn't come here. I think that's what he's really saying and I think that is an unexceptionable position to take. Now he's been attacked I think quite wrongly. He's not trying to stir up hostility to Islamic people any more than I was when I made some comments, incidentally three days before the Cronulla riots, I made some comments to the effect that there was a section of the Islamic community, because of its extreme views and it's rejection of the fundamentals of our society it posed a problem. And I also expressed concern about the attitude of some, I stress some, in the Islamic community towards women. Now I thought both of those statements were perfectly unexceptionable; they don't connote a disdain for all Muslims in Australia. We have what 300, 400,000 Islamic people in Australia, the overwhelming majority of them are as committed to this country as you are and I am and Peter Costello is. But that doesn't mean you can't identify areas of concern and I think the reaction of some in the Islamic community every time anything is said to the effect that 'oh we're stirring up hostility' is quite unreasonable.
MITCHELL:
Okay, well I mean there is a sensitive environment at the moment though.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, there is a sensitive environment, but that sensitive environment has overwhelmingly risen because of the environment around the world of terrorism which unfortunately is based upon an evil, distorted interpretation of Islam by Islamic extremists. That is the common thread. I mean we have to face the fact that the common thread since the 11th of September 2001 in terrorist attacks around the world has been a perversion of Islam. Not true Islam, but a perversion of Islam. So in those circumstances for us to sort of throw up our arms in horror, not you, for some to say, throw up their arms in horror and say that there's something wrong in even talking about this issue is ridiculous.
MITCHELL:
Sharia, what is sharia law?
PRIME MINISTER:
Sharia law as I understand it is a strict enforcement of a very hardline Islamic law. It involves heavy punishments, it's practised in some states of Nigeria for example. Some of those famous, infamous rather, examples of women being threatened with stoning because of adultery and things of that character.
MITCHELL:
So it's certainly inconsistent with Australian values?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's inconsistent with the values of, I would suggest, the overwhelming majority of ordinary, moderate Muslims. The Muslims I know, I know quite a number, don't favour Sharia law.
MITCHELL:
Are you aware of a group of Muslims in Australia practicing Sharia law?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have heard some people have been reported as advocating it. Not many, but once again I think Peter was using that as an example of the sort of thing that ought to be looked at to make his point.
MITCHELL:
Well does that mean there are people in this country who should not be here, you want them out?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what I am saying is what I just said.
MITCHELL:
But if Sharia law's inconsistent, Peter Costello's saying if you're inconsistent with Australian values you should be out.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think what he's saying is...
MITCHELL:
But are people saying if they are practising Sharia law we want them out.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah well I think what Peter was doing was to make the point that a belief in that would be inconsistent with Australian values.
MITCHELL:
Well what are Australian values? This is the point. What are the Australian values we expect people to embrace or get out?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we expect them to embrace democracy, we expect them to recognise this is a society made up of both men and women and that each should be accorded proper respect and an equal place. That doesn't mean that we should try and make them the same in their outlook and their attitude, but simply they should be treated fairly and equally. It's a society that recognises and respects freedom of religion but it's a society that does not have an established religion. Christianity, although it is the Judaeo-Christian ethic is the great moral shaping force, has been and continues to be in different ways, the great shaping moral force of Australia it is not entrenched in any way and the Christian church is not entrenched in any way as a state religion. We respect all religions and we respect people who don't have religions and in that sense, we are very different from a country such as Iran, a country such as, in many respects, even a country such as Pakistan or Indonesia, where there is a far greater, how shall I put it, far greater central role for Islam as a religion.
MITCHELL:
Do you believe that multiculturalism does have, from the understanding of it, the broad support of Australians or are they suspicious of it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look it depends how you define it. If multiculturalism simply means that we respect everybody, we want everybody to be an Australian first, second and third, but we also understand that people retain affections for their original cultures and countries, and that's perfectly normal and I think we enjoy it. And we want those other cultures to be part of our mainstream culture and we welcome that. Now if it means that we're all for it. If it means that we're going to encourage people to maintain their differences and that basically we have an attitude that well all cultures are equal, all cultures are the same, then I don't think people feel comfortable with that.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a call. Go ahead please.
CALLER:
I just have been listening to the Prime Minister. I also wonder what the real core values of Australia is? Cause he talks about man and women, proper respect, recognition of freedom of religion and the question I ask is what do you actually say. And if someone is actually born in Australia and does not proscribe to those values, what do you do with them?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm not saying I'd do anything with them.
MITCHELL:
Well you can't if they're born in Australia.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I'm not suggesting I'd do anything with them. Let's just, everybody take a deep breath.
MITCHELL:
Oh but Peter Costello's talking about people having their citizenship stripped from them.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think if you look at the rest of what he said, and I didn't hear the whole speech, my understanding was that he was talking about a process and contrasting it with a situation where somebody was only a citizen of Australia and didn't have a dual citizenship.
MITCHELL:
Well under what circumstances should citizenship be removed from Australians?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think people who break the law, and there are processes now, there's nothing new about this. Neil I am happy to answer questions the whole time, but I think you should, in relation to some of the details, you should go and talk to Mr Costello. I mean I didn't...
MITCHELL:
I've read his speech.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah well I haven't. I've only heard the reports from it.
MITCHELL:
Which is why I asked what your view is on it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I've given you my general views but you can't ask me to impart and analyse every single paragraph in somebody else's speech. That's ridiculous.
MITCHELL:
Do you welcome him venturing into areas such as this?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have always said that he, as Deputy Leader of the party, should be free to make speeches about anything that is consistent with Government policy.
[commercial break]
MITCHELL:
Fourteen to nine. Another call for the Prime Minister. Peter, go ahead please.
CALLER:
Prime Minister good morning. An observation if I may before I pose my question to you. You seem to be promoting one dimension of your multiculturalism which of course supports your argument and the Treasurer's argument. Multiculturalism does not simply mean or does not only mean increased tolerance. It means equal access and it means a whole host of other things. And I'll go to my question. Prime Minister, you seem to be focussing on one particular group, the Muslim community. What are you going to do with the Catholics, another religion where the religious leaders have adopted over the years equally as strange an attitude and they have been applauded and promoted, equally as stringent to the laws as the Muslims.
MITCHELL:
What issue, are you talking about things like abortion Peter?
CALLER:
I'm talking about abortion, I'm talking about divorce and so forth. I mean, doesn't that run counter to our Australian values?
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't think there is any comparison between the attitudes of the Catholic Church or indeed any branch of the Christian church and the attitudes of extreme Islamics who argue that terrorism is justified by the Koran. There's a world of difference between that kind of attitude and the views of the Catholic Church about abortion and divorce. I mean you just can't compare the two. It's ridiculous to suggest that you can.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, the Treasurer's talking about mushy, misguided multiculturalism. I see the public school figures have changed. There's been a drift from state schools to private schools. Is that mushy educational policies?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it is further evidence that parents want freedom of choice. Certainly it's been easier to express that choice under this Government and importantly, the big movement has been towards low fee, essentially Christian-based schools.
MITCHELL:
You have been critical of the way some of the States...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I have.
MITCHELL:
Do you think that's part of the reason?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that is part of it but I don't want to be generally critical of the state education system. I personally owe it a lot and I think it is still the bedrock of our system of primary and secondary education. But we are a society that respects choice. Can I just say while we're talking about those figures that came out yesterday the really cheering statistic, the most spectacular one of all is that there has been over the last 10 years, a 55% increase in the school retention rate of Aboriginal children in Australia. Now this is practical reconciliation at it's best because unless Aboriginal children have education their employment opportunities are going to be limited and unless they can get jobs they can't be fully enjoying the benefits of Australian society and I am really cheered by the fact that there has been a 55% lift over the last 10 years in the retention rate of full time Aboriginal students at schools. Now that is a terrific result, we still have a long way to go, it is still well below the community average but if you are looking around for a good news story in relation to indigenous Australians, there's your story.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister another area, the blowing up of the mosque in Iraq has led to many commentators saying it seems Iraq's on the verge of civil war or is headed towards civil war, surely this is a step backwards and would reduce the possibilities of us removing our troops early?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's a difficult time and I don't want to use extravagant language but I certainly agree with you that what happened with the mosque is very provocative. It will tend to throw the focus within Iraq on the contest or the battle between the Sunni and Shia rather than a battle between terrorists and the coalition forces. There's no early prospect of all coalition forces being withdrawn although until this latest event, the signs were looking good and I hope that if they can (inaudible) their way through this latest outbreak which is clearly designed to provoke unrest and potential civil war. I mean let nobody be in any doubt, this has almost certainly been inspired by Al Qaeda and played out by Al Qaeda and the purpose of it is to cause maximum carnage between the Shia and the Sunni because it's Al Qaeda the terrorists, the people who are according to the Government's critics aren't really in Iraq, it's their plan to cause maximum mayhem and chaos.
MITCHELL:
It doesn't say much for us getting the troops out though does it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I have said that our forces are likely to be there for while yet, I am not going to try and put a withdrawal time on it.
MITCHELL:
Your 10 year anniversary, a lot of analysis of this, does that embarrass you?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I just accept that it is inevitable, I read it with interest and I have my own views on it but I just accept that if you've been a Prime Minister of Australia for 10 years and you have presided over a Government that's brought about a lot of changes, I think some of the analysis is accurate and some of it is not.
MITCHELL:
Well what is your greatest achievement?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think the greatest achievement of the Government has been the strength, in a broad way of the Australian nation, it is of course economic strength but our sense of our confidence, our self respect, our sense of our place in the world, all of those things are much stronger now. I am not saying they weren't always strong, nobody should imagine that things were weak and drifting under other Governments, I mean this country is going to be a good country no matter who the Prime Minister is because the people are good. But I do think that we have seen not only great economic strength but we have seen a self confident Australia, an Australia that is sure of its identity, that doesn't have this perpetual seminar on who we are or where we came from or where we are going, but we just get on with life and demonstrate in so may different ways what a great place it is.
MITCHELL:
What is the failure in ten years?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am sure there are many, I think perhaps in the early years I didn't understand that in some cases you had to make decisions quickly. I think I spent too much time in 1997 talking to everybody about how we responded to the High Court's decision in the Wik case and I am sure there have been other failures; but I've read all about them. I tend to operate on the rule, Neil, in politics that you don't need to enumerate your own failures, others will and very enthusiastically.
MITCHELL:
What about a memorable moment, what's the most memorable moment in ten years?
PRIME MINISTER:
Undoubtedly the saddest moment in the 10 years that I have been Prime Minister was the Bali attack. It was an event that really tore the nation's heart but we handled it magnificently. I think I said at the time that Bali demonstrated that duality of the Australian personality that we were as tough as tungsten but we also had a great warmth and a great capacity to embrace each other both literally and metaphorically at a time of national need and national crisis and it brought the very best, a tragedy, it brought out the best of the Australian spirit. Now that's a sad moment, I think the Olympic Games in 2000 was something that all Australians contributed to, it wasn't primarily my Government, but it put Australia magnificently on display to the rest of the world, I think that was a great moment. Obviously from a partisan political point of view, winning the election in 1996 wasn't a bad night.
MITCHELL:
Why have you lasted 10 years?
PRIME MINISTER:
That really is for others to decide. I would offer a couple of observations, I am still very committed to the job, I don't wake up ever in the morning thinking gee I wish I had another job, I can't think of one occasion in the last 10 years that I have thought gee I wish had another job. I still have enormous enthusiasm, almost boyishly so for the job.
MITCHELL:
Sounds like a retirement interview doesn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
And the other constant of the last ten years have been tricky questions from journalists like that.
MITCHELL:
Well an upfront question, do you support Robert Doyle's leadership in Victoria?
PRIME MINISTER:
I support the elected leader in all the state branches and Robert's the elected leader and I support him.
MITCHELL:
Do you support Simon Crean to stay in the parliament?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it would be a pity if Simon were defeated. I mean it's not for me.
MITCHELL:
I don't know if that helps him or hurts him.
PRIME MINISTER:
No well you asked me the question and I will give you an upfront answer. The bloke obviously wants to stay in parliament, he's hardly old, what is he 56?
MITCHELL:
Oh he is a young man.
PRIME MINISTER:
Very young. He has had ministerial experience. He was on all accounts, even though people disagreed with his politics, quite a good minister for primary industry in the Hawke or in the Keating Government and if he goes out, well Mr Beazley is the only person who's had ministerial experience. Now I don't know that the Labor Party's so overwhelmed with talent that they can afford to make that decision and I don't know that the bloke running against him is sort of Winston Churchill the second.
MITCHELL:
Will it be easier to win the next election without Simon Crean there?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that is a hard question to answer but it's not for me, you could ask me a personal view but I will leave it for Mr Beazley to elaborate.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister you are reported today as embracing nuclear power for Australia.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am of the view that we should, certainly should not turn our face against it as Mr Beazley has done, I can't understand why he did that. I am not saying that we should have it tomorrow, what I am saying is that if the economics of energy lead us to embracing us to nuclear power then we should be willing to do so.
MITCHELL:
And I guess a final question, Prime Minister, where the bloody hell are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am in Sydney and I will be going to Perth later today. I think it's, I saw the campaign, I think it's quite a good campaign. I am not somebody who uses that expression, certainly not on radio but I do think the way it's used and the expression has become so colloquial to us that it's not offensive in the way that I believe other vulgarities are and I think your listeners will be familiar with the sort of words I am talking about. I don't think those words should be used on radio or television but that particular expression from time to time does get used, I don't think it offends people in the way that other words do. It has become part of the Australian vernacular, it's a colloquialism rather than a vulgarity now, and I therefore think that having watched the advertisement, I think it's a very attractive, it's a beautiful clean presentation.
MITCHELL:
So can I encourage you to repeat the slogan here?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I am not given to; I am very cautious on those things Mr Mitchell.
MITCHELL:
Thank you very much for your time.
[ends]