MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Neil. How are you?
MITCHELL:
Well thank you. Is it correct that Australia has made secret payments to the families killed by Australian troops?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am not aware of that.
MITCHELL:
Should you be?
PRIME MINISTER:
If it's happened I should be.
MITCHELL:
It seems Rear Admiral Moffitt is saying it's happened but he won't say how much.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's news to me. I'll find out, I'll investigate the claims. But I don't have any knowledge of it. I would have been told. I should have been told. News to me and I'll find out.
MITCHELL:
Concerned by it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let me get the context of the claim.
MITCHELL:
Okay, drugs.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
MITCHELL:
Michelle Leslie in the Bali jail, another young man up there in jail. Many warnings being sent out. I'm starting to wonder whether this will affect our relations in South East Asia and will it affect travel in South East Asia by Australians. What do you think?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think it will. There are an enormous number of Australians, especially young Australians who go to South East Asia. We're only dealing with a very small number. But I have to repeat the despair I feel that people can in the face of all that's happened and the publicity given to it be so stupid as to take any kind of drugs into any of these countries. I mean I urge young people not to get involved in any way with drugs - in Australia or anywhere else in the world. But the penalties are so severe, the legal systems of these countries are so uncompromising, it's so black and white that it passes belief that people can in the face of that still think they can get away with it.
MITCHELL:
But is the Australian Government losing a bit of patience with representing them or helping them?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, we have an obligation to provide people with consular assistance and we will always, consistent with the laws of another country, we will always try and help Australians to the degree appropriate if they get into trouble overseas. That is our obligation and no matter how silly they are we still have an obligation to help them. They remain our people. But I'd just like to repeat the warning that they cannot expect the Government to use its credit with foreign governments to bend the legal system of another country to get people off offences for which they might be guilty.
MITCHELL:
Do you have any sympathy for them?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have sympathy for people who destroy their lives and young people who take drugs and destroy their lives and bring grief and pain and remorse to their families, I feel sorry for people who get into that situation in the sense that any human being and particularly if you've got children and you only think, heavens above it would be terrible to have that kind of situation. But I can't defend the conduct, I won't defend it, and I will just continue to say to young Australians who go overseas, to start with don't mess with drugs in Australia, but if you go overseas be doubly careful not to believe for a moment that you can get away with it because they have a very strong view. I had a very long discussion with the Prime Minister of Singapore about this issue a few months ago in the context of my making representations about commuting a death penalty of an Australian who's convicted of a drug offence and he said John, you've got to understand Singapore is a small country, the only asset we have is our four million people, we hate drugs, we have seen the misery it's inflicted on people's lives and anybody who's caught with drugs can't expect any mercy in this country.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, in a US report has shown in relative terms Australian real estate is the most expensive in the world. Isn't the great Aussie dream of owning your own home, is that dying?
PRIME MINISTER:
No it's not dying because the home ownership rate in Australia is still 70 per cent.
MITCHELL:
It must be getting a lot harder according to these figures.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven't seen them, Neil. There are studies virtually every day on this. I find it hard to believe that our real estate would be quite as depicted...
MITCHELL:
Well it's when you compare it to the median household income, so you're spending more of your income to get your house.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there are other offsets to that. The Americans have a different capital gains tax regime and of course they have death duties in America and we don't have those in Australia. So there are some swings and roundabouts that are sometimes not taken into account when these comparisons are made. The last figures I saw on home ownership showed 70 per cent of Australians own their home and that hasn't changed a great deal over a period of 30 or 40 years.
MITCHELL:
Is the top tax rate too high and does it cut in too early?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it still does, yes. Yes to both questions.
MITCHELL:
Okay, what are you going to do about it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we've started haven't we? We made a huge step forward in the last Budget.
MITCHELL:
You've got a way to go by the sound of it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, well, look I'm asked in isolation do I think it's too high and does it cut in too early, I say yes, yes...
MITCHELL:
(inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
I beg your pardon?
MITCHELL:
What's the ideal?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well...
MITCHELL:
... company tax cut - 30 per cent.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't know that you have to have as a goal obliterating all the difference between the two, I'm not sure about that. But I believe that there is a case, circumstances permitting and other priorities allowing, to take further steps in that direction, to remain competitive and to reward the brightest and the best who work very hard. We need a balanced approach to tax, we've got to look after the people who have low and middle incomes, who are raising children and who find it very expensive. We've also got to look after the achievers and the contributors and the wealth generators of our society, you need a mix of the two.
MITCHELL:
Well do you think you've got the lower rates right but you still need to address the higher rate, is that the...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we've started, we have certainly started. I don't want to be heard to be saying there's no further room for movement for the lower rates. Remember in the last Budget we cut the lower rate down to 15 percent from 17, that was a very big reduction and then all the evidence is that people who've gained most from my Government have been lower and middle income families - the Bureau of Statistics has shown that their disposable income has risen at a faster rate than the disposable incomes of the high income earners. So nobody can say we have run a country for the rich. But I want a country though, that rewards effort and ability and achievement and therefore you've always got to be concerned that that rate is producing that. We made a big step forward in the last Budget, we will have doubled, by the end of next year we will have doubled over a three year period the threshold at which the top rate cuts in - it will have gone from $60,000 to $125,000. Now that has been made possible courtesy of the Government having a majority of one in the Senate. If it had been left to the Labor Party it would still be stuck at $60,000, or something between $60-80,000.
MITCHELL:
You can't commit to the next Budget...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I can't.
MITCHELL:
But will it be one of the things on the table at the next Budget?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there'll be a lot of things. I'm not tying myself to any kind of timetable with this. But I was asked a question and you asked me, the answer to both of them is yes.
MITCHELL:
Jean, go ahead please Jean.
CALLER:
Good morning Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hello Jean.
CALLER:
Hello. I'm very proud to be an Australian but I'm becoming very anxious. I am a mother and a grandmother and I have a daughter who is on her own, bringing up three children and paying a mortgage. She's, since the new workplace agreements, or arrangements, have been muted her company has moved in with what I loosely call a fluid rotation of shifts. Now hither to (inaudible) Monday to Friday and weekend work was always paid on a penalty rate and now they have changed the whole dimension and they're on a kind of conveyer belt of Monday to Friday, Tuesday to Saturday, Wednesday to Sunday and so on. Now, as well as this it means that no longer will any penalty rates be paid, even though the, in my case my daughter is having to work some weeks through the weekend...
MITCHELL:
So what's your concern Jean? Do you want, I mean the industrial changes haven't come in yet.
CALLER:
Well this is the whole point, it hasn't. But what is going to happen when it does?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Jean, can I make the point that Neil has, that these changes haven't come in, and there's no way under the present law that the sort of thing that you're speaking about can lawfully happen. Now, I mean I know the unions and others are running a fear campaign on this and I know there are some people in the community who for a combination of reasons are strongly opposed to any changes the Government makes in this area. But these changes will not hurt average people. They will in fact produce a stronger economy and will, I believe, further reduce unemployment. And if you think I'm, and if your daughter thinks I'm in some way an enemy of people in her position can I just make the point that in the nine and a half years that I've been Prime Minister real wages, that's increases after inflation, have gone up by 14 per cent, have gone up at a far healthier rate than they did under the previous government and unemployment has come down and I think I can say I've been a better friend of the Australian worker than either of my predecessors and they belonged to the Labor Party.
MITCHELL:
Jean, just hang on, if you want to give us the details confidentially off-air we'll look into it.
PRIME MINISTER:
I'd be very happy, if there's any suggestion that your daughter is being exploited or unfairly treated, and that can happen under any industrial relations system. I mean we have a workforce of 10 million people and nobody in my position can guarantee there'll never be a difficult, mean employer, no matter what system we have and nobody in my position can guarantee there'll never been an obstructive, difficult worker who's making life miserable for all of his or her workmates. I mean we have to cope with the unreasonable on both sides of the debate.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a break and come back with more from the Prime Minister in our Adelaide studio where today it has been announced, I'll ask him about this after the break, that Holden is planning to cut 1400 jobs from their workplace, from their vehicle assembly operations. Job cuts at Holden.
[commercial break]
MITCHELL:
The Prime Minister's in Adelaide, 9.21am, we'll take a call first up then I have got more questions. Phil yes go ahead Phil.
CALLER:
Good morning Neil, good morning Mr Prime Minister. I'd just like to ask the question with Telstra. I live 40 km out of the central business area of Melbourne and I get charged an STD call from where I live into Melbourne, I can't get a local phone call from Telstra.
MITCHELL:
Yes, this is something that's been well people have called for this to be addressed Prime Minister, a number of people...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes this matter has been raised in our Party Room by a number members who may well be one of them whose raised it, he represents an outer metropolitan seat, so he's probably your Local Member on the job. And there is an outer metropolitan fund which is available for enhancements for people in that situation precisely where it is I can't say, but if you left your name and address can find out where we are at in dealing with that issue.
MITCHELL:
Phil hold on for a moment. Just while we are on Telstra, have you decided where the money will go?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we haven't made a final decision, we are not going to fritter it away, I can assure you of that, and depending on when it's received then there may be some small amount of net debt that needs to be paid off. Certainly a lot of it will go into the Future Fund.
MITCHELL:
Will, will... I know the Future Fund is a benefit and it's a benefit to the taxpayer [inaudible]...
PRIME MINISTER:
Because ultimately it relieves future taxpayers of legal superannuation liabilities so...
MITCHELL:
Will there be any short term obvious benefit for taxpayers?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you've got to do both, you've got to prepare for a rainy day and build for the future and look after future generations and you've also got to look after current generations. It's very selfish of this generation to spend everything in our lifetime and leave a huge mountain of debt and a huge pile of problems for our grandchildren.
MITCHELL:
Holden is going to cut up to 1400 jobs in Adelaide where you are, were you told...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, yes, I was briefed about this. I had a discussion with the South Australian Premier and they will be announcing today a government response that we'll be providing some additional assistance over and above the normal assistance that occurs when people are made redundant. The unemployment rate all around Australia and also in South Australia is very low. When Mitsubishi closed one of its factories about, and that was in, what, April of last year about 79% of the people who were retrenched were placed in alternative employment, and some of those that were placed in employment probably took their redundancy packages and retired.
So over a period of time, with a bit of extra help from the government, and we work with the State Government on this, this is not a political issue. Holden, abandoning the third shift is not the result of any problem with government policy at either state or the federal level; it is just that they can't sell enough of the cars that are being produced on that third shift to justify it. And it was always fairly optimistic of Holden to have a third shift - most of the other motor manufacturers don't have that. So we will be there with the workers, wanting to help them and given the buoyant state of the economy I am optimistic that people, with a bit of extra help from the two governments, will find alternative employment. But it is a stressful time for them, I understand that, and I want them to know that the Federal Government will be there helping in different ways to ease the difficulty.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister a couple of media issues and I hope I don't sound too esoteric but one of them in particular is very important to the public I think. There are two journalists in this town facing jail for contempt over not naming a source. Who decided to pursue this case through the courts?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the decision to pursue it was taken by the Director of Public Prosecutions...
MITCHELL:
Well who decided to investigate it as such?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is an automatic procedure when there is an unauthorised disclosure of information and that is what we are dealing with here - we are dealing with an allegation that a public servant, without authority, provided confidential information to people...
MITCHELL:
[inaudible] revolves around leaks, I mean it is the very basis of democracy.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes but also good government revolves around the capacity on the part of the government to keep secret, some things until we have finally made up our mind what to do.
MITCHELL:
I would be very ... you in Opposition ever leaked anything? I would be very surprised...
PRIME MINISTER:
Look just as you don't sort of talk in detail about what you do in your profession, I am not going to talk in detail about what I do in mine, except to say that I have always tried to do the right thing according to the ethics of my profession and I am sure you have as well.
MITCHELL:
And so are these journalists...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, Neil...
MITCHELL:
...but they could be in jail.
PRIME MINISTER:
But well could I just deal with this matter by first of all saying I can't comment about the detail of the individual case for reasons that it is before the courts. Can I say this, they are two highly professional journalists, I know them, I respect them, and I know that they are behaving according to the Code of Ethics of their profession and I respect them for that. But this is quite a difficult issue and it's being considered by the Law Reform Commission, that's the general issue, because on the one hand I understand from the journalist's point of view that if you are to get leaks, you need to preserve confidences, I understand that and I respect that. But I will also ask you as a journalist to understand and respect that if governments are to make the right decisions, surely we should be given the opportunity from time to time of conducting some of our deliberations in the sure knowledge that the detail of those deliberations is not going to get into the public domain until we as Ministers judge it appropriate to do so, because it is after all not the information of the public servant. When a government is making up its mind about something the process belongs to the government, it belongs to the Ministers it doesn't belong to the public servant, so there is an argument on both sides. It's not easy and I respect the journalists' position. And I understand the profession that you belong to would take the view that it does. I just ask you to give some thought to the alternative point of view because if you are to say that a government has no right to take steps to protect the confidentiality of its internal workings, then that is a fairly serious...
MITCHELL:
But why this one, this one was highly embarrassing...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can't, for reasons that are, please, I am not trying to avoid a question, I don't - as you know it's not my style to avoid very difficult questions, but there is a particular case before the courts and I am constrained about talking about it but...
MITCHELL:
But is it possible, I mean the government in a sense is the complainant her; is it possible for the government to withdraw the case?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the decision to prosecute was taken by the Director of Public Prosecutions. The DPP is an independent officer and...
MITCHELL:
But who asked for the investigation.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what happens...
MITCHELL:
That [inaudible] complaint initially.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hang on, let me answer it. When a leak occurs, an unauthorised disclosure occurs, the normal procedure is for the Department to call the police and have it investigated. There is routine, well established procedure.
MITCHELL:
So the Minister didn't request it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I [inaudible] Minister had a discussion with her Departmental Secretary, she probably did, I don't know.
MITCHELL:
I am told there have been 111 investigations and the leaking of government documents since 97, that's 33,000 man hours and $183,000 in cost, is that worth it?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it is worthwhile preserving the principle that a government does have a right in the public interest of conducting some confidential discussion. I mean if you want to have a confidential discussion with the management of your radio station about the conduct of your programme, you would like to feel that everybody involved with that...
MITCHELL:
But I am not publicly funded Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
No no no, well that's, well I don't think that alters it. I know you always say from a journalist's point of view, that does alter it, I don't think it does. I mean I have a responsibility to deliver good decisions for the Australian public, and I am certain that on occasions the only way you can deliver a good decision is to have robust internal debate about the merits or otherwise of that decision and in the process, expose all the arguments and look at a whole lot of alternatives. Well if I can't be sure that there is a good prospect of that debate remaining confidential until we make a final decision, I think it affects the quality of the decision making process, and I think the Australian public will suffer as a result. That is not to say I don't understand your point of view as a journalist and I mean journalists thrive on leaks, they love them.
MITCHELL:
Well so do Oppositions.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, any...I understand. Neil I understand that...
MITCHELL:
And governments at times.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am appreciating your point of view and this is an issue that is quite difficult. The Law Reform Commission is looking at the principle and there is a variety of approaches adopted by overseas countries in relation to it and it's quite a hard one in which to strike the right balance.
MITCHELL:
I appreciate your character reference of the two journalists.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they are good blokes and I have a lot of time for both of them.
MITCHELL:
Just a couple of other quick things, the media law changes, are they close? I keep wondering what's happened to them and I see...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Helen Coonan was asked by me to go and talk to all of the players and media proprietors and others and that process is still going on and when she has completed that she is going to come back and talk to me and if we think there is a proposition that is a goer and is in the public interest, well she'll put it up to Cabinet. Now it's not something that I am going to spend a whole lot of political capital trying to solve but if we can get better laws and we can free up the existing laws - I think the prohibitions on cross media ownership are wrong, I have always had that view and I also think the prohibitions on foreign investment need to be relaxed.
MITCHELL:
What did you think of Ron Walker being Chair of Fairfax?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's a matter for Fairfax.
MITCHELL:
Digital radio, is that close?
PRIME MINISTER:
Getting closer.
MITCHELL:
This year?
PRIME MINISTER:
Can't tell you.
MITCHELL:
Why?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's not that I refuse to tell you, it's just that I don't know.
MITCHELL:
Well I think the Minister said it could be this year.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that would be good because that has been going on for a while.
MITCHELL:
Just very quickly, the freedom of speech issue, two Ministers unable to speak at universities is the Education Minister and the Health Minister because of issues with danger or security, does that concern you? I mean is this encroaching on freedom of speech or is that the nature of uni...
PRIME MINISTER:
It does, it does become a matter of concern if in fact that is the police advice that ought to be of concern, that doesn't help anybody, that really doesn't.
MITCHELL:
And did you watch the cricket last night, they can't field, they can't catch, it's hopeless.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I did.
MITCHELL:
It 'pummelled' the back page headline of the Herald Sun, ' pummelled'.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes well it was [inaudible] I never like to say anything unkind about our national team but I thought it was a bit ordinary.
MITCHELL:
Buy them some bags.
PRIME MINISTER:
[inaudible] you journalists say those things. I would never say it.
MITCHELL:
Well just don't put me in jail for saying it Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
No I would never do that Neil, I enjoy these exchanges too much.
MITCHELL:
Thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay thank you.
[ends]