MURRAY:
Good morning. Shortly I'll be joined by Prime Minister John Howard. Fresh from his discussions yesterday with Muslim Leaders, the Prime Minister is about to board a flight to Perth where he will farewell members of the Special Air Service Regiment who are off to Afghanistan. I've got to say, the timing's pretty exquisite. The Prime Minister was told yesterday that one of the things radicalising young Muslims in Australia was our involvement in conflicts in Muslim countries. And today the Prime Minister is right here in Perth sending soldiers off to fight Muslims. I'll talk to Mr Howard about that shortly.
[break]
Prime Minister John Howard flies to Perth this morning and he's heading straight for the Campbell Barracks at Swanbourne the home of our elite Special Air Service Regiment. He's going to farewell a contingent bound for Afghanistan. It's the second engagement there for the Regiment. In the first they lost Sergeant Drew Russell, husband of Kylie and father of Lisa who was born just 11 days after Drew's patrol car blew up on the 16th February 2002. So the Regiment knows just how dangerous this assignment could be. Prime Minister John Howard joins me now. Good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Paul.
MURRAY:
Prime Minister, we're led to believe that at least some of the discussion with the Muslim Leaders yesterday was about opposition to our involvement in the War on Iraq. If young Muslims in Australia are being radicalised by that, will you expect it to be the same for our involvement in Afghanistan?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well logically speaking, if you apply the test of, that you shouldn't be somewhere because some people are against it and they use that as an excuse for unacceptable behaviour, well it applies to both countries, it doesn't just apply to Iraq. I should point out though that there wasn't much debate about our involvement in Iraq. I made the point that the question of whether we're in or out of Iraq is a matter on which a range of Australians have a range of views and in that sense, Islamic Australians are no different from the rest of us. Some support it, some oppose it. And that was reflected at the meeting.
The purpose of the meeting was to identify ways of preventing the emergence of any terrorist behaviour in this country and the reason I spoke to the Islamic community about it, is that the common thread in all terrorist attacks in recent years is that those attacks have occurred perversely in the name of Islam and that obviously is why we talk to the Islamic community.
MURRAY:
If this is about engaging with radicalised Islamic kids to make sure they're being good Australian citizens, how do we reconcile our proper foreign policy with their objections to it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh that's quite easy. Foreign policy is a matter that's determined by the elected Government. It's the subject of debate. And just because you disagree with a Government's foreign policy, that doesn't justify you supporting terrorism. I mean nobody can justify support for terrorism because they disagree with an aspect of our foreign policy. And that is the antithesis of good citizenship and it's quite unacceptable to Australians. There would be many Australians opposed to our involvement in the war in Iraq who would bitterly oppose any resort to terrorism by other Australians because they are also opposed to our involvement. It's a question of having a foreign policy that people debate. Some support it, some oppose it, but under no circumstances can opposition to your country's foreign policy justify support for terrorism. I mean that is the issue here. It's not a question of whether we should or shouldn't be in Iraq, it's a question of what is acceptable behaviour. And it is not acceptable behaviour for anybody in this country, irrespective of their background, to countenance terrorism just because they disagree with our foreign policy.
MURRAY:
Of course, but they see the example of radical action, violent action against this in other parts of the world. Surely what yesterday was all about is finding some way of making sure that our kids here in Australia don't follow that example.
PRIME MINISTER:
Absolutely. And that's the principal reason. You won't change the minds of people who are hardened fanatics and hardened extremists. You have to identify them and take measures to ensure that they don't become a problem. The main aim of policy at present is to make sure that young and impressionable people in the Islamic community do not come under the sway or the influence of those hardened fanatics.
MURRAY:
What do you think was the major thing to come out of yesterday's meeting?
PRIME MINISTER:
A common commitment to fighting the problem. There was no equivocation in the unconditional rejection of terrorism. There was no equivocation about the importance of us working together as Australians. There was no equivocation about the need to look at particular measures which we'll be doing in the weeks and months ahead. I thought we established a very good framework of principles because unless you get the principles right, unless you get a common understanding that we are in this together, that it is quite unacceptable to traditional Australian values for any countenancing of terrorism of any kind or any description. And if you can get the leadership of the Islamic community saying that not only to me, but also within their own community that is a good start.
MURRAY:
Prime Minister, are you prepared to get inside the Mosques and the prayer halls and the schools, the Islamic schools, to make sure that nothing untoward is going on there?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, to the extent necessary yes. I mean I have no desire and nor is it the Government's intention to interfere in any way with the freedom or practice of religion. But we have a right to know whether there is, within any section of the Islamic community, a preaching of the virtues of terrorism, whether any comfort or harbour is given to terrorism within that community. Now it's very hard for a Government or any of its agencies to penetrate every aspect of life and we don't want to interfere with people's enjoyment of life and bear in mind that the overwhelming majority of Australians of the Islamic faith are good, loyal, upright, decent, committed Australian citizens. And I don't want them to feel strangers in what they regard as their own country. But equally if people are not willing to give their first loyalty to this country, then they obviously must understand that that will arouse enormous concern within the rest of the Australian community. It's a question of striking a balance and I believe enlisting the support and the goodwill of the people I spoke to yesterday was a very valuable framework and a very valuable first step.
MURRAY:
Prime Minister you'll be in Perth shortly to farewell the SAS Regiment to Afghanistan. The numbers appear to have grown from when you first announced that we were going to re-engage there.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, we've added another 40 and we think that's necessary to improve the effectiveness and the, how should I put it, the fighting capacity of the group. We originally announced 150 and we've added, we've added an additional 40 people and it's a very impressive group. Our SAS are world renowned. They do a fantastic job, they're superbly trained, they're well equipped. Their morale is high, like true professional soldiers they're keen to go. But it's a dangerous mission and there is a risk of casualties and I don't want to overlook that, I don't want to avoid saying that, but equally if training means anything in terms of preserving life and avoiding casualties then these blokes are the best trained in the world.
MURRAY:
Are they going to go after Osama Bin Laden?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they'll have certain missions. I don't know that I want to get into the detail of what their missions are, but they will certainly be involved in activity against the Taliban and others.
MURRAY:
What does the Australian national interest get out of us being there again?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the Australian national interest is in making sure that the democratic Afghanistan continues. If the democratic experiment in Afghanistan fails then that's a huge victory for terrorism. Equally if the democratic experiment in Iraq fails that's a huge victory for terrorism. People who condemn our presence in Iraq neatly avoid the question what would happen if the west pulled out of Iraq and the democratic future of Iraq was destroyed and the terrorists took over. That would not only stymie democracy in the Middle East but it would also put enormous pressure on neighbouring Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia with huge consequences for the future of the whole region.
MURRAY:
Did we pull out of Afghanistan too early last time?
PRIME MINISTER:
No we didn't. We pulled out of Afghanistan because the military objectives we had at that time had been completed and we also pulled out of Afghanistan in November of 2002 with bipartisan support. The Labor Party might now be saying we shouldn't have pulled out, they didn't say that then. When we pulled out in 2002 the Labor Party strongly supported that decision and they agreed with our assessment based on the advice we had.
MURRAY:
What's the purpose of the visit to Perth today, what do you hope to...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I just hope on behalf of the Australian community to wish the men well, to thank them for their professionalism and their past service to Australia. I believe that it's part of my duty, my role, my responsibility as Prime Minister when people are sent into dangerous areas of operation that the very least I can do is to front them and thank them and wish them well and express the hopes and prayers of all Australians that they come back safe and sound. That's why I'm going to see the men in Western Australia.
MURRAY:
Prime Minister just at the end here can I ask you a question about Telstra, it appears your Communications Minister Helen Coonan is having some problems with Telstra after the sale, the size of Telstra, and making sure it's not anti-competitive.
PRIME MINISTER:
Appears she's having trouble?
MURRAY:
Yes, appears she's having trouble reconciling this issue with Telstra about how they're going to operate in the market after the sale.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, I don't know that she's having trouble. We want a competitive environment, we want a strong Telstra but we also want a situation where Telstra has strong competition. Because a private monopoly is no better, no worse than a public monopoly and we don't want that situation and that's why we're going to establish a strong competitive regime but not one that's unfair to Telstra. And there's always debate between the regulator and the regulated and naturally Telstra is wanting less regulation than the Government wants. The reason we want that regulation is to deliver competition. Telstra of course would like as little regulation as possible so that the competition is not as strong. Now that sounds as though it's a normal company and that's encouraging. There's no company I know that welcomes steps taken by Government to increase competition; they all say they welcome competition but when it comes to the crunch they normally find a reason to object to the instruments used by the Government to deliver that competition. And in that sense Telstra is no different from any other company and its management is no different from the management of any other company. But we want a competitive environment, we want a strong Telstra, but we want strong competitors because its competition that will deliver better outcomes for the Australian public, lower prices, more services, quicker services, more efficient services. Competition in the end is the greatest servant the consumer has.
MURRAY:
Yeah, but given the strong opposition to the sale don't you need to convince Australians you're not going to unleash a monster into the market after the sale?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think we'll be unleashing a monster. I understand why a lot of people on the surface are against Telstra being sold fully into private ownership because we've always had it in public ownership. But the reason I object to it remaining in continued majority public ownership is that it prevents the company operating fully and freely. Let me give you an example - because we own half the shares in Telstra, if Telstra wants to raise money it can't have a new share issue. It can't have a new share issue because if we didn't participate in the new share issue then we would lose our majority control and it's against the law at present for that to happen, so therefore it can't raise money by issuing more shares, which every other public company can do. I mean that is a huge limit on its capacity to operate like a normal company. If BHP Billiton wants to raise capital by share issue it can go ahead and do so but Telstra can't. Isn't that undesirable? Doesn't that fetter and limit and restrict what the company can do?
MURRAY:
Prime Minister, after you've fixed all these little problems we've discussed today can you fix the Australian cricket team please?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well like millions of other Australians I'll be keenly tuned in tomorrow night. And I think this has been a fantastic test series and whatever our own personal preference for Australia winning is (which is very strong), it is great for the game to have such a terrific series and to see a revitalised English team and to see the revival of public interest in cricket in England, which is the original home of cricket - that's wonderful for people who really love the game. But having said all of that I wish Ricky and the boys the very best.
MURRAY:
Great to talk to you again Prime Minister. Thanks a lot.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]