JONES:
It's 15 after seven and the Prime Minister is on the line, Prime Minister good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Alan.
JONES:
PM, you seem to have been everywhere, I thought I'd just ask you at the outset though you just have been to Aceh and we saw those pictures on the television, just tell us your reaction.
PRIME MINISTER:
It is infinitely worse than it looked on television, so often the case is with a disaster of great magnitude and this is the greatest disaster I've experienced in my lifetime and I guess all of your listeners, apart from war and the devastation and the personal grief of people. In the hospital I met a poor lady who'd had her leg amputated, she'd lost her husband and her children and yet somehow or other she was able to display a positive approach. The work of the Australians over there is just so inspiring, the military people, the medical teams, and the civilian medical teams, they're all doing their job and it, to use that old but true saying, make you very proud to be an Australian.
JONES:
What do you do PM the families, I mean you're a man with children and here are children who've lost both parents, parents who don't know where their children are, what is the best thing for families who are torn apart?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the best thing I believe, and I don't claim to be an expert in understanding trauma, but as a human being I would have thought the best solution is a local solution, the best solution is to try and reintegrate the survivors into their local communities, that does mean rebuilding schools, hospitals and other community facilities. One of the starkly sad things about this, and it's very apparent as you drive through the streets of Banda Aceh, is that the tsunami has disproportionately taken children and older people...
JONES:
Who couldn't get away.
PRIME MINISTER:
They weren't strong enough to survive. Now it's taken groups from every age cohort but there are fewer children than you would expect and there are fewer older people and everybody has been affected in one way or the other. The good thing, and you've got to look at it on the positive side, the good thing is that it has enabled the rest of the world and particular Australia to show its human face, it's enabled our country to demonstrate by deeds to the Indonesians that we are, as we know we are, warm hearted, compassionate people who are willing to help those who need help. And gee, these people really need help.
JONES:
Just on the question of help in Indonesia many of my listeners are asking what help we are providing to, for example, Schapelle Corby, who seems to be struck there in an extraordinary legal battle when it almost defies credibility that the girl would be importing marijuana from Australia. Is she getting a fair go, Schapelle Corby?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well she's getting all the consular advice that she can be given. She has been arrested and obviously we have to wait and hear the evidence. The Indonesian justice system clearly will have to treat her properly, I'm not suggesting it isn't at this stage, it's too early to make any judgement about that, but I mean I understand the interest of many Australians in this, I also understand that countries like Indonesia and Singapore have very tough anti-drug laws and they are widely known as tough and anybody who does take substances into Indonesia or Singapore or countries that have these very strong laws should understand the penalties. Now I'm not pre-judging the girl, clearly there are two stories being given, the customs official in the arraignment gave one story and she gave a completely different one and we will obviously watch it very closely.
JONES:
You were at the World Economic Forum as well in Davos rubbing shoulders with plenty of Europeans there not practicing free trade, you've come home to some really heavy figures demonstrating our exports aren't, haven't, can't pay for our imports, we've got a massive trade deficit problem. Why shouldn't there be tariffs on imports into this country equal to the difference between what we pay for our labour and what competing countries pay for theirs?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'd give two reasons, the first is that if you reimpose tariffs generally that over time will add to the cost of articles bought by Australians. I know Australians like Australian made things, I think we all do, but we also like cheaper goods and I think people appreciate the competitive prices of many goods that come from overseas. But the other reason why I'd be against that is that other countries would retaliate against our exports and impose tariffs on them and make it harder to sell.
JONES:
Many of those people you were with at Davos have got the door up to our exports...
PRIME MINISTER:
Not all of our exports.
JONES:
But our exports aren't paying for our imports and haven't done in years and years and years.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they historically haven't always done so and this country has for a long time run a current account deficit, it's a question of the magnitude of it and the magnitude of the current account deficit has been affected very sharply by the rural downturn and it's also affected sharply, less sharply but significantly, by the recent appreciation in the Australian Dollar which is a result of the depreciation of the American dollar and that has made some of our exports dearer than they might otherwise be.
JONES:
But how much longer can we go on like this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look I think over a long period of time, a longer period of time the current account deficit will reduce, I am not the least bit pessimistic about our capacity through export performance to reduce the imbalance and what is unsustainable is a very large current account deficit over a long period of time.
JONES:
Headlines today tell us that, quote, "Industrial relations reform tops Howard's to do list". Are you serious on that, do you put industrial relations reform as you speak for the Australian community ahead of tax reform, ahead of infrastructure needs, ahead of the water crisis, ahead of a health system whose costs are blowing out of control. Are we seriously suggesting that IR reform is more important than those?
PRIME MINISTER:
Alan, I haven't sought to grade them, the media have done that. Industrial relations reform is very important to me but other things are important as well. But I don't want to downplay the importance of industrial relations reform, but I still think there are things that need to be done to make this country's industrial relations system more competitive, and of course it affects our capacity in so many others. Look, those other things are important as well Alan, I mean the media enjoy grading things and saying this is the issue that preoccupies my mind more than anything else. My answer to your listeners is that all of the things of which you speak are very important for the Government, there are some things that we can act on more quickly, there are some things we can act on more directly but all of those things that you mentioned, and indeed national security and defence, and defence is something that will continue to claim an increasing amount of our spending as the years go by, all of those things are important to the Government.
JONES:
PM, how can a mentally ill woman spend 10 months in a detention centre in any circumstances if we're doing the job correctly, simply having checked herself out of a psychiatric care at Manly hospital here in March 17 last year, finds herself all that time in a detention centre, apparently abominably treated simply because she was psychotic and spoke German. Someone has failed somewhere have they not?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well clearly the answer to that is yes. There will be, at a federal level, an inquiry and Amanda Vanstone and I will talk today about the form that will make.
JONES:
But neither of you are prepared to apologise to her.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I want to know more about it Alan. You know the litigious society in which we now live and you know I'm not going to just without knowing all the circumstances issue apologies, it's not that I don't feel for the woman, of course I do, but you will understand that in the litigious society in which we now live I am simply not going to do those things on the run without proper advice. Look can I just make one point that seems to be overlooked, this case raises questions not only about the immigration detention system, which has attracted all the critical attention, but it also raises some questions about the mental health policies that this country has followed for a long time.
JONES:
No-one would argue about any of that, I'm just simply saying that it seems pretty dangerous today that if you've got Alzheimer's and speak a second language you could finish up in a detention centre.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Alan on the surface I understand that, I am unable to illuminate further because I don't know all of the facts and the circumstances and on the face of it and in reality it's clearly a tragic situation, I feel for the person, there will be a proper investigation to find out what happened and I will expect the full co-operation of state governments and state authorities because plainly there's a Queensland state aspect to this and given the comments that have been made by all the State Premiers I'm quite certain that I'll have the full co-operation of the Queensland Premier.
JONES:
With your tongue firmly in your cheek. You and the Government know something about Mamdouh Habib that we can't be told, it's alleged that he trained with Al Qaeda and its Asian offshoot five times since 1998, that he was at an advanced Afghanistan terror course during the 9/11 attack, that three other alleged terrorists under detention have identified him as being present at several of the camps, he's also alleged to have been in contact in Afghanistan with the man who once led Al Qaeda's military committee before that bloke was killed, he's supposed to have met Hicks in Afghanistan. The question my listeners are asking to me in endless emails how does a bloke make all these trips on a disability pension?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's a fair question and as always your listeners get to the commonsense nut of that and many issues. There are reasons why his passport has been cancelled, you will understand for good reason the continued reluctance of people in my position to talk in detail in regard to security issues. I indicated at the time that he was repatriated to Australia that he would continue to be of security interest. The reason that he has not been charged as yet under Australian law is that some of the offences that, or the activities rather that he is alleged to have undertaken were not criminal at the time they were undertaken, although similar activities are now crimes under Australian law. Now that is the best explanation consistent with a good prudent intelligence practice and also consistent with his entitlements as an Australian citizen that I can give.
JONES:
Okay, well you spoke very slowly and very deliberately then, can I just ask you to amplify the comment when you say he hasn't been charged as yet, is there a likelihood therefore in the future that this man will be charged?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I'm not foreshadowing that but equally I'm careful not to rule it out.
JONES:
And is he, is it okay for him to appear on 60 Minutes, to be paid, if he is to be paid, and keep the money?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I would have to get specific advice on that, I can't answer that and in any event it's not my position to give an opinion on the law. I mean he is an Australian citizen and he is entitled to behave like any other Australian citizen.
JONES:
But his freedom is qualified?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well his passport has been taken and he continues to be of security interest, but subject to that his freedom is not qualified. As to specific things in relation to appearances on programmes, I mean the community will have its view not only about him but about people generally who get paid for giving their stories in relation to conduct with which the community might not approve and I imagine that your listeners would have a strong view about that.
JONES:
Prime Minister, Werriwa, are you going to stand a candidate in Werriwa?
PRIME MINISTER:
The party hasn't decided that, it's 50/50.
JONES:
There are a lot of people again ringing here and saying that this is an electorate which is not unlike yours I might add in the seat of Bennelong if you look at average weekly earnings, the number of people who earn over $1,000 a week, they're in the top 50 of the 150 seats in the House of Representatives and people are saying why won't the Liberal Party offer us out here a choice?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's one side of the argument, the other side of the argument is that this has always been, even in bad times for the Labor Party, a rock safe Labor seat.
JONES:
But these people say listen we're not out here, not everyone in the West votes Labor and Lindsay and Macarthur demonstrated that.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no I do understand that and that's one side of the argument, the other side of the argument is that unexpectedly through no fault of ours after a very, very expensive Federal election campaign we suddenly have the challenge of the by-election, you can't run by-elections seriously these days without spending several hundred thousand dollars, we have a State election coming up in New South Wales in the next couple of years, political parties, particularly the Liberal Party are not awash with money.
JONES:
Speaking about awash with money, one thing before we go and we've only got a very brief matter of time, we're the only country in the world which taxes superannuation on entry, on earnings and on exit, is there anything that you are likely to do to relieve that kind of pressure and punishment?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we have begun to phase out the superannuation surcharge and that process will continue...
JONES:
That's before tax...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well...
JONES:
Everyone pays on entry, earnings and exit, the surcharge is (inaudible).
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not going to promise something, obviously as we go through the term and we look at options in taxation reform that is one of them but there are limits, if you want to get that threshold up and give relief there.
JONES:
We'll talk again.
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm sure we will.
JONES:
Thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]