LIEBMANN:
Overnight the Prime Minister has released a 12 page document refuting claims by the Opposition that he has lied to the Australian public on 27 occasions since 1996. That comes as a new poll shows that almost half of all voters surveyed believe the Prime Minister lied about the so-called children overboard affair, but the rider is they wouldn't change the way they voted. Well Prime Minister Howard joins us in the studio this morning. Good morning to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Steve.
LIEBMANN:
Have you been getting much sleep since the Games were on?
PRIME MINISTER:
Not a lot. I'm a bit sleep deprived, like the rest of the country.
LIEBMANN:
Can I ask you what you think of this controversy that has enveloped our women's eight rowers and Sally Robbins.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm sorry it's happened. I don't think it's fair of the Prime Minister to be commenting one way or the other. My only advice to teams on an occasion like this is to bind together and to close ranks.
LIEBMANN:
Don't slag off at each other.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm not taking sides, but it's always regrettable and it's tough and there's a lot of pressure, and it's always a good idea to bind together. But look, I wasn't there and I can understand the passion and the emotion and the effort that goes into these things and the sense of disappointment people feel, but I'm not taking sides.
LIEBMANN:
Alright. To matters away from the Games, can I put this to you - while you're travelling the country announcing things like increased private health rebates for older Australians and improved regional airport security, your credibility is becoming a real issue.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the Labor Party is trying to make it an issue. Of course they would.
LIEBMANN:
You don't think it's beyond the Labor Party?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think it's very much the Labor Party trying to do that. But look, personal abuse of your opponent, which Mr Latham has now resorted to, personal abuse... I mean he was the bloke who a few weeks ago said, you know, play the ball, not the man. Well he is now resorting to cheap personal abuse of me, instead of telling the Australian public what he stands for. I mean I've just released a health insurance measure that will help a million Australians over 65, and he throws effectively dirt in their face by saying oh no, I'm not going to support it. He shows an insensitivity towards a million elderly Australians.
LIEBMANN:
Alright, and I'll come to that. But you don't think you're becoming increasingly vulnerable when it comes to the fundamental question of honesty and trust?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well in the end, my makers are the Australian people. The Australian people elected me Prime Minister and the Australian people will make a decision when the election comes along as to whether they want me in charge of the nation's affairs or they want Mr Latham. They'll look at what I stand for and what I believe and what I've done, and they'll look at what Mr Latham stands for, what he believes in and what he's got in store for the country. And in the end they'll make a judgement on a whole lot of things, and cheap personal abuse... I mean we could all do that. I could slag off at him. I could say this, that or the other. But I don't choose to do so.
LIEBMANN:
But can I put this to you. Whether you call it cheap personal abuse or whatever, can I suggest to you it's starting to bite. I mean you've got this poll now that says half the people surveyed think you lied to them about the children overboard affair.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I didn't, I didn't. I mean that's not to say that people... some people won't think that. I mean some people will think ill of me no matter what I do, particularly as you get closer to an election campaign. People start barracking for their own side, and almost half the population is habitually Labor and almost half the population tends to be closer to our side, and as you get closer to an election, people barrack, they take sides. It's like Grand Final day. You go along and you get... and you start barracking. But look, I am perfectly happy to deal with the merits of these allegations. I mean that rubbish document that was put out at the weekend, I mean I've dealt in detail with each of those 27 allegations, and there is no substance in the claims that... I mean you change your position on something, that's not a lie. Mr Latham four years ago said the private health insurance rebate was the most disastrous piece of public policy the Commonwealth Parliament had ever produced. He's now trying to pretend to the Australian public that he sort of might keep it if he becomes Prime Minister.
LIEBMANN:
But out there, there's a feeling that people are saying Howard's tired, the Government's looking tired, time for a change. They're just looking for an excuse not to vote for you and your Government, and you're giving it to them.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Steve, I don't accept that, but in the end you and I can't resolve that. In the end, that will be resolved in the ballot box and they'll make up their mind after they've seen us in a five week campaign and they'll have an opportunity of seeing what Mr Latham believes in. I still don't know what are his policies. We don't have a tax policy, we don't have an economic policy. All we've had is personal abuse and negativity.
LIEBMANN:
Alright. The private health rebate. Do you acknowledge that that looks like it's dead in the water? It's not going to get through the Senate.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well no I don't acknowledge that, because if we win the election we'll have a mandate to introduce it. But there are a million older Australians who have got private health insurance, people over 65, and hundreds of thousands of those people are on very low incomes. And Mr Latham is showing a complete insensitivity to the fact that those people have saved and scrimped, and private health insurance to them is a very important part of their health security, and they appreciate this extra reward. They really do.
LIEBMANN:
It's a vote buying exercise though.
PRIME MINISTER:
Steve, it's a very good policy because if you don't have a strong private health system, you will have a weaker public health system because more strain is put on the public health system if you have a weak private health system.
LIEBMANN:
If it's a very good policy, why wait til April 2005? Why not introduce the legislation as soon as parliament resumes?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is a very good reason why you do that, because that is normally the beginning of the year as far as health insurance companies are concerned, and from a mechanical point of view we were advised by my Department that that is an appropriate starting date.
LIEBMANN:
This could backfire though, couldn't it? Mightn't it drive up premiums for everyone else?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, not on the advice that we've had, because it essentially is a measure that will give an additional reward to people who already have private health insurance.
LIEBMANN:
So Clive Hamilton from the Australia Institute has got it wrong? Because he says...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I disagree with him. I mean I'm not saying he's a bad man or he's making that up, but I'm just saying the advice I have is that it will essentially reward people who already have private health insurance, and it's designed to do that because this section of the population is, you know, they are squeezed, they don't have the same adjustments in their income as other people have.
LIEBMANN:
But I come back... I mean you've known this for some time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, but that is an argument Steve for saying nothing in an election context. I mean you say I've known this for a long time. Well I've known that private health insurance is a very good thing, and we have decided in the lead up to the election, sure there's going to be an election soon, we've decided that we're going to add something to it and to give an extra reward. Now unless you take the argument that you don't have any policy announcements once you're within six months of an election, of course you keep announcing things, and you're entitled as an interviewer to say well you've known this and why don't you... why didn't you do it six months ago? I mean I could... when Mr Latham produces his tax policy, I can say well why didn't you produce it six months ago, and people say well that's not really the issue, the issue is whether it's a good policy or not.
LIEBMANN:
You've also been told, as has John Anderson, your Minister, that regional airport security has got holes... more holes in it than a sieve. Now you've announced a $48 million programme to upgrade regional airport security. I ask you the same question - why now? People have been telling the Government for ages that we're vulnerable in that area.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, but we've also been putting a lot of resources into other aspects of airport security, and we've been doing this on the basis of putting the resources in the direction and the areas that carry the greatest need.
LIEBMANN:
Peter Costello overnight has said... he's your deputy, the heir apparent. He's outlined a vision for the Liberal Party that includes no children in custody, a republic, and higher levels of immigration. Does that reflect your vision for the country and the Liberal Party's vision?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he expressed his views on those issues, and there's nothing new in any of them. I mean his view on the republic is well known. He and I have always had a different view on that, and we've never felt uncomfortable...
LIEBMANN:
Children in custody?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't want children in custody, and in fact...
LIEBMANN:
Well release them.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, but hang on, hang on. But I don't want them released in circumstances where it would undermine the effectiveness of the policy. I mean the thing that has got to be made constantly is that our policy has worked because the boats have stopped coming and we have stopped illegal immigration dead in its tracks. And, you know, to cut through all of this debate, all aspects of this issue of border protection, the one thing I say to your viewers is that our policy stopped illegal immigration to this country and I'm very proud of that. Now sure, we don't like having children in detention, and there's only a small number of children of boat people who are in custody, and in fact if their mothers would agree to the community arrangements that we want, my advice is that they wouldn't be in custody...
LIEBMANN:
So it's their fault?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, I'm not saying it's their... no, no, that is not fair to say it's their fault. I'm simply pointing out that everybody would like to see children out of detention, but it's got to be in circumstances where the effectiveness of the policy, which has been a huge success, is maintained.
LIEBMANN:
Nice to see you. Thanks for coming in.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]