BARTLETT:
Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning. Good to be back.
BARTLETT:
It's always good to see you PM on this side of the country.
PRIME MINISTER:
I come here regularly, as you know, and indeed into this studio regularly.
BARTLETT:
You do, you do, and our listeners appreciate it.
PRIME MINISTER:
And I have been doing it regularly over the last eight and a half years.
BARTLETT:
I take it you must be going to see the Springboks.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, unfortunately...
BARTLETT:
You're not?
PRIME MINISTER:
... sadly I can't. I've got to go back to Sydney at lunchtime on Saturday. I'm very, very sorry about that but having seen the match between the Wallabies and Scotland, and the Wallabies and England, I can't see this match.
BARTLETT:
I was sure you would have been there for George Gregan's 100th test.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I just can't, I'm sorry. I have to go back to Sydney.
BARTLETT:
Oh goodness gracious. Talking of sport, have you made a decision yet on whether Australia's Olympic athletes will be protected by armed guards?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the attitude of the Greek Government is that they will look after security. The advice they continue to give us is that armed security for all of the visiting teams will be provided by the Greek Government and by the Greek authorities.
BARTLETT:
By them.
PRIME MINISTER:
I beg your pardon?
BARTLETT:
By them.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, by them. Yes. Now, this is one of those situations that we continue to look at very closely. The Australian Olympic Committee has told the Government that it is satisfied with the arrangements that have been made, and the arrangements include the stationing in Athens of quite a number of liaison people from the Australian Federal Police and other relevant agencies. It's one of those situations that, Liam, we're keeping under very constant surveillance every day. At the moment, we are satisfied, but I have to say I can't guarantee there won't be an incident though. It's a very awkward situation. I don't think anybody wants the Australian team not to go. I think that would be a dreadful outcome. But equally, people worry about the safety of the team and I have to honestly say that the possibility of some kind of incident or some kind of attack, not necessarily directed at Australians... and the official security assessment to the Australian team is that they are at a lesser risk than some other teams, but perhaps at a slightly higher risk than others. So it's a difficult.... a difficult call. All I can say to your listeners is I want the team to go, I want the team to participate, the team to do well. I worry about their safety. I do. I can't honestly say to you that I'm certain that they're going to be fully protected. I just can't be certain of that. All I can say is that the Greek authorities insist that they will look after their security, as we looked after the security of everybody who came to Sydney, and that as I'm advised, that is a position which is accepted by other countries, including the United States. But the slight difference with the United States is that there is a NATO stand-by capacity, and NATO of course includes the United States and Greece is a member of NATO, and Greece is in, as everybody knows, is in Europe, so having people on stand-by, not only of course to assist NATO countries, but indeed others if an incident occurred. But the reality is that if there is an incident, it can be too late before the incident... be too late for some people, and that's the great challenge that you have. But...
BARTLETT:
Yeah sure. Prime Minister, does anybody from the Government actually say that to the athletes? Do they say to them explicitly - look, we can't guarantee your safety?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I say it regularly when I go on air and I'm quite sure that that is understood, and I will be having further discussions directly myself with the head of the Australian Olympic Committee before the team actually departs, and I want to satisfy myself... I know there have been discussions between DFAT and the Foreign Minister and the Minister for Sport, but I do have a lot of connection over the years with the Australian Olympic Committee. I know the leadership of the movement very well and I understand their dilemma. They don't want to overdramatise the situation. They're interested in sport and they're interested in representing their country, and the athletes are interested in that, and that's what everybody hopes for. But I don't want anybody to imagine that the Government is in a position to give an iron clad guarantee. All I can say is that we have been assured that security arrangements are intensive. We have been told that the assessed risk in relation to our athletes is lower than that of a number of other countries. We have been told by the Australian Olympic Committee that it is satisfied with the security arrangements that have been made, and we have of course made a number of additional precautions. But it's just one of those terrible dilemmas. You can't stop the world because of terrorism. They win then. And that's the great dilemma all free societies face.
BARTLETT:
I wanted to ask you as a sports fan, and like many, many thousands of other Australians being, you know, sports fanatics - has the Olympic build-up been spoilt for you in any way because of these drug allegations, the drugs in sport issues?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh I think everybody is disappointed and my gut feel is that there are probably some people in all sports who cheat, but I don't believe that it's widespread. I'm a lot more positive and benign and charitable in my view than some other people are. Perhaps I'm being naive. But I tend to believe that there is still a very deep reservoir of genuine sportsmanship within most Australians and there's an abhorrence of people who break the rules.
BARTLETT:
You don't get performance enhancing substances though that magically turn up in the mailbox at Kirribilli.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well maybe they're diverted. I'm not aware of it.
BARTLETT:
Talking with us at the moment, I'm talking to the Prime Minister. Prime Minister, while we're discussing drugs, the ongoing blue over the Free Trade Agreement, I wanted to ask you about this this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
BARTLETT:
It still has some questioning whether or not the FTA will result in more expensive drugs for Australians under the PBS, whether or not the PBS will be put under a cloud now. Now you say this review process that's been put in place will guarantee that this doesn't happen, but what level of protection is there to ensure the review process for drug companies is maintained so that Australian consumers aren't disadvantaged?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's not a review process in the sense that it's an appeal process. All that will happen is that if a company is aggrieved about a decision of the Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee, which is really the key Government body that decides listing and pricing and everything, if a company is aggrieved about that, it can ask for a review and the reviewer can express an opinion, but the Pharmaceutical Benefits Authority and the Government are under no obligation to take any notice. It would be a different matter if we had established a process whereby if you were unhappy, the reviewer could then substitute his or her opinion for the decision of the Government or the decision of the Pharmaceutical Benefits Authority, but that is not going to happen. Now I know that there is no diminution of the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme as a result of this Agreement, because I am aware from my own direct involvement in discussions just before we reached final agreement, that the Americans wanted a tougher provision inserted that might have had an impact, and I rejected that. And at one stage it looked to me as though the whole thing would fall over.
BARTLETT:
So that protection is locked in stone, is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, yes of course. Well if any future Australian Government changes it, I mean anything can be changed by a future Australian Government, but I...
BARTLETT:
(inaudible) changed by legislation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course it has to be changed by legislation. There is no way that the review mechanism, which is not in any way binding - it's not in any way binding, there is no way that that can have an effect on the existing scheme. It provides greater transparency. In other words, it allows a company that thinks an unfair decision has been made to put its case, and for its reasons for feeling unhappy to be aired, but at the end of the day if the Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee and the Government say no, then that review process will not alter the decision. No Australian Government is going to alter this system in the future. I mean...
BARTLETT:
There's no sunset clause in the fine print?
PRIME MINISTER:
There is no sunset clause in the fine print, no there is not, anymore than there are sunset clauses in fine print, so to speak, in relation to the... to local content. I mean I took a very keen interest in the local content thing for not only existing television and media, but also the new media, and we have preserved the existing local content rules. We have in fact got a slight expansion of local content in relation to pay television. And in relation to the new media, there are adequate reservations which will protect our future position because it's very hard, when you've dealing with new media, to start specifying percentages and everything, when you're not entirely familiar as to how the new media might operate, so what we have done there is to insert generic reservations. And I must say that I am surprised that some people still continue to complain about that because I had some very lengthy discussions with some people involved in the industry at the time, and I believe that what we obtained in the discussions was not only a fair response to the views they put to me, but also something that will genuinely protect Australian voices. I mean nobody wants Australian culture swamped by American culture.
BARTLETT:
That's for sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
Nobody does. And I'm just as appalled by that thought as anybody else. This idea that I want more American material on television... can I tell you if your listeners, you know, were familiar with my sort of viewing habits on television, I'm not somebody who chases American material - quite the reverse.
BARTLETT:
Talking about viewing habits, today is the official opening day for the public to go and see Fahrenheit 9/11, the Michael Moore product. Do you intend to have a look?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not sort of slated but if I get an opportunity to look at it, I will. I'm not... as you might expect it's not going to alter my view and it does appear to have some significant factual errors. I read a piece by a journalist the other day indicating that one of the claims made connected an oil pipe line to do with Afghanistan with the American decision to invade Afghanistan in 2001 yet that particular issue had been completely disposed of during the Clinton Administration and had not at any stage been revived during the Bush Administration. Now that's just an illustration that comes to mind. People should understand that this is a propaganda movie and you get hold of footage, you can put a view, you can run a biased documentary...
BARTLETT:
... what it is.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, of course it is. Along as people accept it's a biased documentary and it's designed by somebody who has a visceral political hatred of George Bush and it is no way sort of objective history then...
BARTLETT:
But why do you think so many people have...
PRIME MINISTER:
Because he's a person... sorry.
BARTLETT:
So many people have turned up to view it already.
PRIME MINISTER:
People do that. Of course, I mean it is quite possible for something to be biased propaganda and to be factually in error yet be good entertainment...
BARTLETT:
Of course, it's also possible...
PRIME MINISTER:
The Kevin Costner movie about John Kennedy's... I mean, I saw that.
BARTLETT:
JFK.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, JFK. It was interesting, it was well done. Did I believe it? No...
BARTLETT:
Let me put something to you...
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think he even (inaudible) did he?
BARTLETT:
Is it possible that its popularity is a reflection of the growing distrust that people have for government?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don't think that's right at all. I think what it reflects Liam is the fact that it is an issue where people have sharply different views. There are a lot of people in the United States who are strong supporters of George Bush and a lot of people who are strong opponents of his. He's a person who takes strong positions on issues and I think it's a reflection of that rather than some generic mistrust of governments.
BARTLETT:
If somebody made a movie about your role in the war against terror, what did you think it would say?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm quite sure you could find some people in Australia who think just as ill of me as Michael Moore does of George Bush. Look, I am a realist. There are a lot of people in Australia who strongly disagree with many of the policies of my Government. It's a democracy. I've never been a person who's been reluctant to take a stand on issues. People know where I stand. They don't know where my opponent stands. People know where George Bush stands. Now there are questions being asked about whether they know where his opponent stands, now I don't want to get into that, that's a matter for the American people to decide. But it's not surprising when you take strong stands on issues and you try and implement reforms that people develop strong views about you and there are people in Australia who have very negative views of me - I accept that, I respect their views and I'll argue the case with them but that doesn't surprise me. The Prime Minister of Australia who doesn't attract strong reactions is a Prime Minister of Australia who's done nothing.
BARTLETT:
Let's take some calls Prime Minister, David's first up. Hello David.
CALLER:
Good morning, Liam. Good morning, Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
CALLER:
Welcome to Perth.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
CALLER:
I'd like to know as a person who I think takes strong stands, what strong stand do you plan to take on the unfortunate rift that exists between Australia and the Philippines now?
PRIME MINISTER:
There's no unfortunate rift, there's a difference about the language used by the Foreign Minister and I support the Foreign Minister completely in the wake of the Filipino decision to pull their military out from Iraq earlier than they'd originally planned. I recognise, as does the Foreign Minister, it was a difficult issue for the Philippines.
BARTLETT:
Is marshmallow...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I haven't seen the full transcript of what Mr Downer said, somebody mentioned to me yesterday that that hadn't... that expression had not been used...
BARTLETT:
... he should perhaps not said what he said?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think the point he was making was perfectly legitimate and I support it and that is you cannot give in to terrorists - that's what he was saying. I mean, strip away everything else, that's what's all about and I think he made a very valid point.
BARTLETT:
Shirley, good morning.
CALLER:
Oh, good morning. Mr Howard, I'm going to make a suggestion rather than the question.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah.
CALLER:
A couple of months ago a TV presenter mentioned that Mr Latham has pointedly referred to the difference in your ages and I would like to suggest that you challenge him to a two kilometre power walk and the loser coughs up $100 for charity.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm perfectly happy to donate $100 to charity whether I win or lose a walk. I think that's a very interesting suggestion. Look, I... I think the best thing we can do is perhaps not have too many gimmicks in this period of time. I, look, we are competing for the job of Prime Minister of Australia. I'm not competing for a long distance award. But thank you very much for your interest and I'll as a result of it I will find a charity in Western Australia to donate $100 to while I'm here.
BARTLETT:
A noble suggestion Shirley.
PRIME MINISTER:
In fact, I'm going to a great organisation shortly to launch our new changes to the Family Law Act, Anglicare, and it's a great organisation. So, I have contributed to Anglicare in the past, so as a result of your call I'll contribute the amount you suggested to Anglicare.
CALLER:
Thank you Mr Howard.
BARTLETT:
Well done Shirley.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
BARTLETT:
Who do you think would win?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, look, I'm not getting in to that, I'm not...
BARTLETT:
Beat him on a two km walk?
PRIME MINISTER:
I exercise because I think it's good for myself, I'm not holding it out of some point of differentiation. I have walked regularly in the morning long before Mr Latham became Leader of the Labor Party. I think...
BARTLETT:
If you get him while he was out of condition a bit...
PRIME MINISTER:
I think I was walking when... starting walking probably when Bert Evatt was Leader of the Labor Party, that's a while ago.
BARTLETT:
Let's take some more calls. Good morning Robert.
CALLER:
Yes, good morning Mr Howard, how are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm very well.
CALLER:
Welcome to Perth.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
CALLER:
Mr Howard, I've got a friend who's on the ground in Baghdad. He's not in the military and your Government through Mr Downer has been particularly critical of the Philippines Government withdrawing their troops to prevent the murdering of their country's hostage. I was just wondering, I'm speaking about a friend and there are many Australians who've got friends there and family, would you be prepared then to let an Australian die at the hands of hostage takers to uphold your current policy on Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that's a very difficult issue, but I'm very happy to respond. I would do everything I could, and I am now, to ensure that Australians in Iraq are very careful and are well protected as they can be in a dangerous environment. But I've been asked this question before and sadly I've have to say to you that difficult though it would be for a person's family, for your friend, for you and for others connected if governments give in to that kind of behaviour then terrorism will spread, more people will be kidnapped because they will know that that tactic succeeds and even many people who disagreed with our decision to go to Iraq would share my view that you can't bargain and make concessions to hostages.
BARTLETT:
So the answer is your friend would probably die Robert...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are, with great respect Robert and Liam, we are talking a hypothetical situation.
CALLER:
Of course it's hypothetical, but it's not that hypothetical, it could happen today, it could happen...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Robert it could and it's something I think about and this is not the first time I've been asked this question and it would be a horrible thing and I hope and pray it doesn't happen but you're asking me for an answer and in all honesty that is the answer I give you.
BARTLETT:
Yeah, fair enough. Thanks Robert.
CALLER:
Thank you.
BARTLETT:
Do you think Prime Minister it's inevitable that we'll lose Australian lives in Iraq.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look all I can, and all I will say to that is I hope not. I mean there's no point, we all hope not.
BARTLETT:
Let's take some more calls. Good morning John.
CALLER:
Yeah good morning Liam, Prime Minister. A couple of things, one's going to be about Telstra, but firstly, you said you might see the Michael Moore film if you had time. How is it that you're so removed from the majority Australians that are watching the film, I saw it in its preview, there's quite a few things there, you might actually learn something for instance most of the American hierarchy wouldn't allow their children to get called up for Iraq, would you allow your children to go to Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm been asked that question before and the answer I've given is that we had a draft or compulsory military service for any military activity in which Australia was involved I would not expected my children to be treated any differently, my sons to be treated any differently from anybody else.
CALLER:
Sure. Would you also, if you do see the film, and as I say you might enlighten yourself, most of the poor people that they've drafted into the American Army and Navy etcetera, they come from improvised areas where they can't get work and it seems strange that the people at the top who have been supported by the very people that they're basically they're keeping down and I think your philosophy would probably go along the same lines wouldn't it Mr Howard?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, you wouldn't be more wrong, we have a completely different draft system when it's operated in the past, from America. And the side of politics that Mr Moore supports in the United States supported and oversaw that very same draft system, it's not different under the Bush administration than it was under the predecessors to John Kerry and Al Gore and Bill Clinton as Democratic Presidents. My understanding is that it's essentially the same draft system that obtained during the Vietnam War and to the extent that they still have a draft and it's very different from the Australian system, our system is far more egalitarian and I'm very proud of that, and I think there are weaknesses in the American draft system, I thought that some years ago and I still do. I am not an admirer and supporter of everything that happens in America, not withstanding propaganda to the contrary, I think there are flaws in their military draft system, I think there are flaws in their system of government but that doesn't blind me to the reality that America has great strengths and great virtues and as far as the film is concerned, well there are a lot of things I'd like to do if I weren't as busy in my current job and as I say I might see the movie, if it comes out on video or DVD, of course I might, I often catch up with some of these movies a bit later in time than other people do, you know you have the luxury of seeing more movies than I do I think because perhaps you're doing different things.
BARTLETT:
John, thanks for your call this morning, hello Ned.
CALLER:
Good morning Liam, good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
CALLER:
Just as a first time voter in federal elections in this great country and leaving aside personalities, how can I differentiate between the parties in the forthcoming election, in order words why should I vote Liberal?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think one of the reasons why you should vote Liberal is that we have delivered an extremely strong economy and a very well defended country. We have produced the lowest unemployment level for something like 25 years. We have paid off a lot of government debt, we have therefore been able to invest a great deal in education and health and defence and roads. We have strengthened a lot of our social services as a result of running that strong economy. And one reason why you shouldn't vote Labor is that you'll then have only Labor Governments at every level in this country, you'll have nine Labor governments, you'll have a federal Labor government, you'll have eight Labor governments in the states and territories and as you all know democracy depends very heavily on checks and balances and you won't have any checks and balances and one of the most likely things as a result of that coast to coast Labor system in Australia would be a return to the old industrial relations system that would restrict the very strong productivity growth we've had over the last few years.
BARTLETT:
What do you think of that argument Ned?
CALLER:
Well yes, these are all obviously very valid, I'll certainly take them on board, what I've gathered so far is Liberal governments are good for the economy and as a sort of businessman myself I appreciate all of that.
BARTLETT:
Well we'll have to let you work it out there because we're running out of time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Are you from Ireland Ned?
BARTLETT:
We're running out of time, sorry, thanks for your call Ned. Prime Minister, just want to ask you one more question before we go, the shortlist that you have for a proposed nuclear waste shortage facility...
PRIME MINISTER:
We don't have one.
BARTLETT:
Is there a WA location?
PRIME MINISTER:
We don't...
BARTLETT:
Anywhere in your mind?
PRIME MINISTER:
We don't have a shortlist.
BARTLETT:
Is there a WA location in the offing?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what is happening is that we are now going through all of the available Commonwealth land in Australia to find a suitable site for Commonwealth waste...
BARTLETT:
...WA...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if it's Commonwealth land, Commonwealth land anywhere in Australia or offshore is being looked at.
BARTLETT:
Prime Minister, thanks very much for coming in this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
You're very welcome.
BARTLETT:
And no doubt we'll see you again soon during the official election campaign.
PRIME MINISTER:
I hope so.
[ends]