SPEERS:
Prime Minister, thanks for your time. This British independent inquiry has found that Iraq had no stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons, but no deliberate distortion on the part of Tony Blair before the war in making the case for war. Do you now concede that Saddam Hussein didn't have the weapons you said he did?
PRIME MINISTER:
I agree with Lord Butler. He said it would be, and I quote him, "a rash person to say at this stage that stocks do not exist and will not be found". That was Lord Butler's conclusion. This report is not as critical of the intelligence agencies in Britain, and certainly not of Mr Blair, as many people predicted. The report did find that Saddam had a strategic intent to pursue banned weapons programmes, including nuclear programmes, that he was carrying out illicit research, he was involved in developing ballistic missiles with a range longer than that permitted by the United Nations, and he expressly found that there was no distortion or dishonesty by the British Government. So whilst the report is critical, yes, of some of the intelligence, certainly he's highly critical of aspects of it, the idea that it was going to find that the intelligence had been, to the use the famous expression, 'sexed up', did not turn out to be the case, and in that sense it's a good report from Mr Blair's point of view.
SPEERS:
Well if I can read you a quote of your own from the 4th of February last year, you said quote "the Australian Government knows Iraq still has chemical and biological weapons" end quote. And yet Lord Butler has found that it did not have stocks of those weapons.
PRIME MINISTER:
It did not stockpiles, yes. Well that...
SPEERS:
So were you wrong?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that statement of mine was made in good faith based on the intelligence available at the time. My position remains that we had strong intelligence to justify our decision, and nothing in the Butler report alters that position. And if we'd have had our time over again, I would have taken the same decision.
SPEERS:
But Tony Blair has now, in response to the Lord Butler report, said that he takes responsibility for the intelligence failures. Why won't you do the same?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm not avoiding responsibility. I take responsibility for everything that my government has done. I always do. There's nothing new in that.
SPEERS:
Including those intelligence failures?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there were intelligence failures, but there was no pressure put on the intelligence agencies. We've now had an Australian parliamentary report, a US Senate report and now Butler's report. All of them have said at no stage was undue pressure put on the intelligence agencies.
SPEERS:
Do you still think there will be weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
I agree with Lord Butler - it would be a rash person to conclude that they didn't exist or will never be found. Now that was...
SPEERS:
But Tony Blair says that they may never be found.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, may never be found. I mean, there's always a range of possibilities. But I think Butler is absolutely right, and I'm content to rest on his words.
SPEERS:
So you agree that they may never be found?
PRIME MINISTER:
I agree with Lord Butler, and Lord Butler said it would be a rash person to conclude that they didn't exist and will never be found. That's what Lord Butler said.
SPEERS:
There's been another bombing in Baghdad, the first major one since the handover of power. How long do you expect this violence to continue?
PRIME MINISTER:
David, I can't put a precise date on that. Nobody can.
SPEERS:
So you therefore can't put a point, a date, on how long Australian troops...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I certainly can't do that, no. And I think this just underlines how absurd it is of the Labor Party to promise to withdraw the Australian military training teams which are getting the future army of Iraq ready to deal with this violence. I mean if the Iraqi people are ever to control their future and their destiny, they need well trained security forces and a well trained army. We're helping in relation to this, but the Labor Party as soon as it gets elected if it wins the election will pull those people out. I mean that is absurd and it's against the long-term interests and the long-term future of Iraq.
SPEERS:
The Foreign Minister today is due to announce the Anti-Terrorism White Paper measures. Will that include extra resourcing for spy agencies?
PRIME MINISTER:
We have already put enormous additional resources into ASIO. Don't you remember the budget?
SPEERS:
But you also said if they needed more, they'd get more.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well my position is that if you need more, if they need more, they'll get it. But there are no outstanding funding requests from ASIO.
SPEERS:
So what can we expect in this White Paper?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh well I think it will be a very detailed presentation of the continuing terrorist threat, not only in relation to Australia, but also around the world.
SPEERS:
What about in this region? Is there a need for greater cooperation? It's something Kim Beazley has spoken about since his return to the front bench.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we have been doing this for years. We have a very close cooperation with neighbouring countries. The security and police cooperation with the Indonesian authorities was the basis of catching the people who murdered 88 Australians in Bali. You couldn't have had closer cooperation, so I'm glad the Labor Party recognises the importance of it.
SPEERS:
Prime Minister, before the last election you allowed Cabinet Ministers John Fahey, Peter Reith, Michael Wooldridge to say in Cabinet, even though they were retiring at the election. Why wouldn't you do the same for David Kemp and Daryl Williams?
PRIME MINISTER:
You don't have to do exactly the same three years on.
SPEERS:
Why...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I've taken a decision that it's in the interests of the Government that as those three people are retiring, that they be replaced. And I think it is the right decision and I'm putting into the Cabinet two new people. I'm putting Helen Coonan, who has done a great job as Revenue Minister, and Ian Campbell, who in the short period as Roads Minister has really impressed people, and they will go straight into Cabinet and I'm sure they'll do a very good job.
SPEERS:
But it must have been a surprise for David Kemp and Daryl Williams. David Kemp said on Tuesday when he announced he was retiring, he had no plans to serve out his term on the backbench.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well once you announce that you're not going to recontest the next election, you're obviously saying something about your own political future, aren't you?
SPEERS:
Were you worried that they would be lame duck Ministers?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I wasn't. I was concerned to maintain the forward momentum, and that's what I've done.
SPEERS:
One of the big challenges that Ian Campbell will face in the Environment portfolio is this difficult issue of nuclear waste, where to store it. It now, it seems, you're looking at offshore sites as well as onshore sites, possibly Ashmore Reef. If this is such a good idea, why haven't we heard about this before?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I had hoped that the agreement made between the States and the Commonwealth 12 years ago might have been realised, but because of the incredibly parochial and uncooperative attitude taken by the states, it's just not possible. I mean we have... this is the worst example of 'not in my backyard' state politics I've seen in the eight and a half years I've been Prime Minister. Sometimes we get on well, we had a wonderful agreement on water but we saw uncooperative federalism at its worst in relation to this issue so I have no alternative.
SPEERS:
This was challenged in the High Court.
PRIME MINISTER:
Our legal advice was not encouraging, David.
SPEERS:
Did political advice come into the mix on that as well given the number of marginal seats in South Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
David, we faced the situation where the legal advice was not encouraging and because of the attitude taken by the South Australian Government despite the fact that earlier the South Australian Government had said otherwise despite that. We just really had no alternative but to change policy and to say to the States well if you're going to be uncooperative then what you've got to do is look after your own waste and we'll initiate a new search to find a suitable location on or off shore on Commonwealth land for Commonwealth waste.
SPEERS:
So how realistic is this option of Ashmore Reef or another off shore..?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven't mentioned any particular locations. It's entirely too early to do that. We have to let the search go on, but I haven't given currency to any on shore or off shore sites.
SPEERS:
Another issue on the environment, David Kemp I understand was due to meet today to meet with today with Steve Irwin at his zoo in Queensland to discuss any possible action against him over that video we saw a few weeks ago where he was getting a bit too close to whales and penguins and seals. Has the Commonwealth decided to take any action against Steve Irwin?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I have been told that after a proper examination a decision has been taken that no action of any kind is necessary.
SPEERS:
No warning?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have been told that no action of any kind is necessary. Obviously the detail of that decision will be announced and explained by the environment people but that is the advice I have received this morning.
SPEERS:
Is he being favourably treated for being a celebrity or...?
PRIME MINISTER:
What's your basis for saying that?
SPEERS:
Would anyone else get away with...?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I'm sorry - that is an absurd thing to say. You have no right to say that. That is unfair to the environment department and it's unfair to Mr Irwin. The matter was examined properly and that's the conclusion.
SPEERS:
Prime Minister, if we can look at a more local issue here in Victoria. A lot of the Liberals here are questioning and speculating on who may take preselection in Goldstein after David Kemp leaves the sit. You had lunch yesterday with Michael Kroger.
PRIME MINISTER:
And 1,500 other people, it was a large lunch!
SPEERS:
Did he indicate to you at all that he was interested in pre-selection?
PRIME MINISTER:
If you want to know Mr Kroger's future political plans you should ask Mr Kroger.
SPEERS:
Would you see him as a good candidate for the seat of Goldstein?
PRIME MINISTER:
I've always seen Michael as somebody who'd be a very good Liberal Member of the Federal Parliament but it's up to him as to whether he ever tries to come into Federal Parliament. That's a matter for him but if you want to know my view of his ability - it's always been very high.
SPEERS:
And Andrew Robb?
PRIME MINISTER:
Andrew Robb is a very capable person. He did a good job as Federal Director. I know him well. Whether he runs is a matter for him. I think the Liberal Party has a lot of talent. I would like to see as much as possible of that talent in the Federal Parliament.
SPEERS:
The preselection process usually takes three of four weeks. You can't call an election, I suppose, before then?
PRIME MINISTER:
What's your next question David?
SPEERS:
No, you have to preselect a candidate though don't you in Goldstein and you can't...
PRIME MINISTER:
We will have a pre-selected candidate in Goldstein at the next election and it will be retained by the Liberal Party.
SPEERS:
And these new Ministers that you've announced - are you going to give them a chance to perform on the floor of parliament before going to an election?
PRIME MINISTER:
David, I've announced a new ministry. They will commence their duties today. They'll be formally sworn in I hope on Sunday and as to what they do in parliament, let's just wait and see.
SPEERS:
And Prime Minister, the Free Trade Agreement this morning has been ticked off by the House of Representatives in the US and also by a Senate Finance Committee. Are you encouraged that it does look like it will go through Congress?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, David, I really am very encouraged. The vote in the House of Representatives was 314 to 109. The biggest vote in the House of Representatives ever in favour of a trade deal. I now hope that it will go through the Senate and we can then look forward to a decision by the Australian Parliament. But isn't it interesting that the only person who can't make up his mind so far on this issue is Mr Latham. I mean, he still can't make up his mind on something that is in Australia's long term interest. If he takes this long in Opposition to make up his mind on a difficult issue - what would he be like on difficult issues if he were to become Prime Minister? This deal is overwhelmingly in Australia's interest. I'm in favour of it not because of its value to the American alliance, I'm in favour of it because it's good for Australia and I thank both sides of politics in America. I thank President Bush for the support he's given and I also thank Senator John Kerry who is the Democratic Party challenger for his support. The only man who's lagging is Mr Latham.
SPEERS:
So you'd be keen then to give him a chance to support it in the Senate?
PRIME MINISTER:
David, this thing could have been finished months ago. This, "will he or won't he" nonsense in Australia by him simply saying to his party - this is in Australia's interest. He's meeting State Labor Premiers in Melbourne today, you know, what should be the first thing on the agenda? A request from them to Mr Latham to put petty politics aside and come out in favour as they have for the US Free Trade Agreement. They have been willing to call it for Australia and not play politics, so should Mr Latham.
SPEERS:
But it was always the enabling legislation, it was due to come up in the Senate in August, why not put it up?
PRIME MINISTER:
David, you can announce as party leader party policy on future legislation if you want to. He either is playing politics or can't make up his mind. Either way it shows very poor leadership and worst of all it shows a disregard for the Australian national interests.
SPEERS:
Wouldn't it show your commitment though to this Free Trade Agreement to have it through parliament before you go to an election?
PRIME MINISTER:
David, nobody doubts I'm committed to the Free Trade Agreement. The bloke whose commitment is in doubt is Mr Latham's.
SPEERS:
John Howard, thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]