CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, how are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm very well Jeremy, it's great to be back in Adelaide.
CORDEAUX:
Interest rates are on hold.
PRIME MINISTER:
Very good.
CORDEAUX:
Unemployment the lowest in 25 years.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think a figure coming out later this morning, but I don't know what it is, but I'd be surprised if it showed any big change and unemployment is the lowest it's been since early 80s, about 23 years. And for the first time since 1968 we have the golden double I call of it of unemployment below six per cent, assuming it stays below six per cent today and inflation below three per cent.
CORDEAUX:
And they say that this is the 13th year of growth in a cycle that is never usually 13 years long.
PRIME MINISTER:
No we are going through a...
CORDEAUX:
A teenage boom!
PRIME MINISTER:
A boom period of sustained economic growth and low inflation and, of course, the two are linked and we hope to keep it that way. It won't happen just if you do nothing and just assume that it will happen but it's the result of hard work and good policy decisions and disciplined financial management and paying back debt and getting the budget back into the black, all of those things have contributed because these things don't happen by fluke or chance or accident, they have to be worked on.
CORDEAUX:
And Mr Latham's honeymoon seems to be over. I don't know why you're in Adelaide and not driving to Yarralumla. It must be tempting.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Jeremy, I'm a very careful person in relation to these matters. I never take the public for granted. It's still another, what, four months before...
CORDEAUX:
But does it get any better...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Jeremy, there's another four months before the three years is up and we have very short elections, very short election cycles in this country. Three years is an incredibly short period of time and in a way I never like to cut that period short unless there is a very powerful reason to do so.
CORDEAUX:
But in not being at all tempted it must mean that in the back of your mind there's a pretty firm date fixed. Have you made up your...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I haven't made up my mind, I honestly haven't. People keep asking me this and I don't want to sound as though I want to... I don't want to keep talking about it. I literally have not made up my mind and when I do well everybody will know because I'll announce the election.
CORDEAUX:
What is the trigger in your mind which will send the whole thing rolling...
PRIME MINISTER:
Let me put it this way - I'll call the election at the right time.
CORDEAUX:
But does a Prime Minister do, does he read...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, of course, you talk to your advisers and you look at all sorts of information and you in the end make an instinctive decision because I think instinct is a very important commodity in public life and if you follow your instincts on difficult issues you normally get them right. Now that doesn't mean to say you ignore reality. If you knew that you were desperately unpopular, that every published opinion poll was telling you that your approval rating was 25 per cent, you would think heavens above I'll wait as long as possible. Now, as I go around the country I find that people are not generically hostile to the government, there are a lot of people who don't like me and will yearn for the opportunity to vote against me, that's human nature and I understand and I accept that. I think people recognise that we have managed the economy well and we're very strong on security and defence and they know that they're the underpinnings of anything else. But that doesn't mean to say they don't get interested in an alternative and we realise that and I'm always keen to reassure the public that I'm not taking them for granted and I don't. I have to work very hard everyday to retain the support that I might have in the community.
CORDEAUX:
Sure, but as I said the other day on this programme, you just don't get the sack for doing your job well. So you must be confident to a...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, let me say, I think we have a good case to put to the public not only about what we have done but what we've planned to do and later on today I'll be talking in broad terms about some of the goals I've got for a fourth term if the Australian public is kind enough to give us another go.
CORDEAUX:
One of the problems, I suppose, with the Government is that governments tend to think in three or four year terms and sometimes...
PRIME MINISTER:
You should really talk in... think in a way in ten year cycles because ten years is a period of time that most people can relate to, it's not so far into the future as to be irrelevant to a lot of people but it's not so immediate and near term that people say well all they worry about is tomorrow, we want a little bit of long term planning. And many of the decisions the Government is taking have been about the longer term. Well take the changes to the tax system - in the short term it was difficult, it involved changes, dislocation and people getting to learn new rules but in the longer term it's proved to be extremely successful, people don't talk to me about the GST anymore except, as happened to me yesterday in Adelaide, I was at lunch with a group of businessmen and a couple of them said how much the GST had helped them in relation to the operation of their business and I had the same experience at a business gathering in Sydney the night before. People said we didn't like grappling with it at the time, it was a pain in the neck introducing it but we know see the value of it and we're glad that it was introduced because it's meant that we can now run our small businesses more transparently and more effectively. So the art of government is really to balance those two things. You have to worry about tomorrow obviously and today but you also have to take decisions that have a longer term benefit such as the decision I took with the premiers last Friday week in Canberra on the Murray Darling Basin, I mean that was a fantastic outcome.
CORDEAUX:
But that was a long term thing.
PRIME MINISTER:
A very long term, it's taken a long time to get to where we are now and I can understand how the people of Adelaide and the people of South Australia would be feeling a bit long suffering about that, they have been. But I'm pleased to tell them as a result of that meeting, we've now got $500 million ready to be spent on projects that will begin cleaning up the Murray and that will be of huge long term benefit to people in Adelaide especially because they have really faced a lot of concern about the future. The quality of their water supply and all of the other related things to that and I can tell them we've got good news that that money will begin to flow and we're going to make some strides I hope over the next few months in getting that money spent.
CORDEAUX:
I've always though and I think most people agree that the small business is the engine room of the economy.
PRIME MINISTER:
Absolutely. Small business has generated 60 per cent of all the new jobs that have been generated in our time in government.
CORDEAUX:
And both sides of politics are caught in small business but a little piece I think this morning in the Sydney Morning Herald says that both parties are going to have to work a lot harder to win, convincingly win small business and the thing that they seem to be most interested in is cutting red tape.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I understand that. I think what's happened with small business is that the general economic positions are very good, they have low inflation, they have low interest rates, they have better industrial relation laws, although they'll become worse if Labor wins because Labor will get rid of the secondary boycott provisions and give the unions a lot more power in the industrial relations system and small business wants that like a hole in the head and they have lower tax rates. And we are now operating under a 30 per cent company tax rate where as we were previously 36 and interestingly enough we're collecting a lot more tax.
CORDEAUX:
And isn't that interesting.
PRIME MINISTER:
The reason we're collecting a lot more tax is the economy is going a lot better. I announced some cuts in red tape last Tuesday night, no longer will employers have to send out quarterly details of their superannuation payments on behalf of employees, they'll still have to make the payments but we're going to abolish that requirement because everybody gets an annual statement from their superannuation fund and this has been a real pain in the neck for people who run the hospitality and entertainment and so forth industries because they have a lot of itinerant workers, they have a lot of casual workers and the paperwork involved for your average restaurateur in that has been enormous and the good news is from the 1st of January next year those statements, which are a pain in the neck and unnecessary incumbrance are going to go. And, as I will be foreshadowing at lunch time in my speech, there are other areas of red tape that we will be looking to eliminate and I hope to say something about those before the election.
CORDEAUX:
But on top of that you've got all the state red tape, for example if you open a deli in South Australia you have to...
PRIME MINISTER:
The Federal Government, the State Government and you've got the Local Government, you've got three and it is too much and I'm therefore not surprised that sometimes people say to me we have too many layers of government in this country, I can understand why they say it.
CORDEAUX:
What would you advocate?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is a very long term project.
CORDEAUX:
I don't know how much guess work it is but people say that your speech today is going to be a Headland Speech and you're going to...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't mind them calling it that.
CORDEAUX:
You want to outline briefly...
PRIME MINISTER:
The whole idea of this is I think people are entitled to have a broad idea from the two leaders; I'm the incumbent, Mr Latham's the challenger, they're entitled to have a broad outline of what kind of goals we'll have for a fourth term and I'll be making it very clear that if you don't have a strong economy and the country's not secure and properly defended you can't do anything else. They are the underpinnings of everything. But I'll be talking about the need to reinforce this country as a fair and decent society, I think that's very important. I think no matter how much stress we place on individual initiative, we've got to recognise some people through no fault of their own do need help.
CORDEAUX:
But don't you think it's a fair and decent society?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it's a very fair and decent society, but I think we should always strive for ways of making it even better. I don't think you should ever assume that it can't be made better. I want to stress the importance of what I call the enterprise culture in Australia. I think the most exciting thing in a way in Australia is when somebody starts a small business. I think the idea that somebody will start with nothing and take a risk and...
CORDEAUX:
And it can still be done.
PRIME MINISTER:
And it can still be done, and it can be done more readily now because the economic climate is better. If you're not paying 18 or 19 per cent on the money you borrow from the bank, you're paying half that or close to half that, you'll take the risk. And we want to find ways of further encouraging people and I'm especially interested in the explosion of businesses that are operated from people's homes. There's been an extraordinary growth in that.
CORDEAUX:
What could you do to support that or encourage that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think a lot has been done already, but there are some other ideas that we're working on that will encourage them. And particularly about 30 to 40 per cent of the new businesses that are started from home now are started by women and there has been a real expansion of women starting businesses not only from home, but generally, and I'm looking at different ways, particularly in relation to their child caring responsibilities, where we might be able to assist.
CORDEAUX:
What do you think of Mr Marsden going off to Iraq to be on Saddam's legal team to defend him? Have you heard this?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I haven't. John Marsden?
CORDEAUX:
John Marsden.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I hadn't heard that. Oh well, it's a free country.
CORDEAUX:
Yes but it's an interesting thing. He seems to have lawyers, he's already got a team of 20 lawyers, I wouldn't have thought he would have needed another one, but it's interesting...
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh well... I'll say no more.
CORDEAUX:
8305 1323. The Prime Minister is my guest, if you'd like to join us. We've got Monica, Maria, Joan on the line, and you can join us as well if you would like to.
[break]
CORDEAUX:
8305 1323 if you'd like to speak with the Prime Minister. How are you Monica?
CALLER:
Good morning Jeremy.
CORDEAUX:
Morning.
CALLER:
And good morning Mr Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
CALLER:
I just want to say thank you for being our Prime Minister and for the way you've led and defended this country.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's very nice. Thank you very much.
CALLER:
Thank you. Goodbye.
CORDEAUX:
Maria.
CALLER:
Good morning. Good morning Jeremy and good morning Mr Howard, PM. May I call you John?
PRIME MINISTER:
Whatever you like, whatever you like.
CALLER:
Okay then. John, look promise me today that instead of spending $230 million on media advertising, promise me today that you will stop it because it can help many cancer sufferers get extra support, the pensioners to get their teeth repaired. You promise that at the last election or the... back in '96, but it still goes on. We have many veterans, war veterans, that need extra help and this isn't forthcoming because there isn't enough money. And the unemployed... John look, one hour's work a week, you're not classified as an unemployed person. How can people live on one hour's wage earned money and support a family and try and reach their goals and their dreams? They just can't do it. You were saying earlier that the GST was good. Well it's good for corporate business, but it's not good for the rest of us. And the politicians I feel are so out of touch, and I don't care what side, I just want to make Australia better. And John, if you take this on board, please don't be an out of touch politician because at the moment the politicians that we do have are... and I shouldn't, I'm generalising, I'll generalise... they abuse the privilege of office by treating taxpayers' money as their own, and it's wrong. So could you do that for me John?
CORDEAUX:
Okay Maria, let's get the Prime Minister in on this.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I deal with as many of those things as I can. Firstly, I don't accept your blanket condemnation of people in public life. I really don't. I mean I know a lot of people in politics on both sides who work very hard and are very genuine. Even though I disagree with a lot of people in the Labor Party, there are a lot of them who are committed to their values and their ideals and they work very hard, and naturally I feel the same way about people on my side. And it's very easy to attack people in public life and to sort of make the generalised populist comments that you have made, and some people will applaud you for saying it, but I'm going to stick up for people who go into public life, and in terms of the responsibilities they carry, they are not overpaid. People in very senior positions in government are not overpaid compared with people who run businesses or are in the entertainment industry or top sportsmen. Now there are different considerations, but I think this generalised complaint that every politician is on the make is inaccurate and is darned unfair.
But as far as the other issues are concerned, the reason that we don't fund dental services in the way that you've suggested is that it is a state responsibility, and the states now have more money than they've ever had because of the GST. When I said the GST was good, I didn't mean it was good for corporations. All of the revenue from the GST, every last dollar of the GST revenue goes to the states - every last dollar. We collect it, but we give all of it to the states. And the states under the GST will be $9 billion better off than they would have been under the previous funding formula over the next five years, and all of the states, including South Australia, is better off as a result of the GST. Now if the states are getting more money, they should fund the things for which they are responsible. If we're going to have a federation - where you have a federal government, a state government, a local government - people have got to discharge their responsibilities. I don't ask the states to contribute to the cost of running the army or other things that are a national responsibility. Equally, it's not appropriate that the states should expect the Commonwealth, particularly when they're getting more money from the GST, to pick up their responsibility. And you mention about... nobody is asking anybody to live on an hour's work a week, pay for an hour's work a week. That's the... you're making a reference to the period of work that determines whether you're in and out of work under the ABS survey, but the question of whether you're entitled to unemployment benefits is applied by a different criteria. So people are... nobody is expecting somebody just to live on an hour. That's not correct. That is not the situation and nobody is expecting people to live on that.
CORDEAUX:
The GST. The truth is that with the baby boomers retiring, there will be fewer people contributing.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we had to alter...
CORDEAUX:
Exactly.
PRIME MINISTER:
We had to alter the tax reliance away from income tax to a greater reliance on indirect tax, and if we don't do these things which are unpopular in the short term but in the longer term I think they do make a difference.
CORDEAUX:
And speaking of unpopular, I think there wouldn't be anything of recent... in recent times that would be less popular in South Australia than this nuclear waste dump. You look like you're rethinking...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it is a very hard issue this. We have to do something about this low level waste. Nobody wants it, nobody, and no matter where you suggest it might go, the local Premier says oh this is outrageous...
CORDEAUX:
How about Nauru?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well this is an Australian issue Jeremy. I mean we can't push our responsibilities to other people. We have a problem here with this, and what I said yesterday and I repeat this morning, is that Cabinet will look at it next week. We're going to look at it in a measured, sensible way. And I understand that nobody much in South Australia wants it. Nobody much wants it anywhere.
CORDEAUX:
It's like an airport.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well exactly. But I've got the responsibility, the buck stops with me to use the vernacular, and I've got to find a solution to this. We've got to find somewhere for the waste. I mean the people who are saying it shouldn't be in South Australia, they presumably say it should be somewhere else in Australia. I'm sure they will accept that people living somewhere else in Australia will adopt the same attitude. Now if that goes on, we will never have a solution, we won't be able to go ahead with rebuilding the reactor, and medical science and the isotopes that are so valuable in relation to cancer research, cancer treatment, could be lost to us.
CORDEAUX:
Joan.
CALLER:
Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
CALLER:
While you're serving out money, do you think you can give us oldies a little bit more?
PRIME MINISTER:
Are you on the pension?
CALLER:
Yes - $470 a fortnight.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we have of course put arrangements in place. You get it automatically adjusted in line with the cost of living.
CALLER:
Yeah, it doesn't go far, does it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I understand that, but we do have of course the concession card holders, concession cards, and we have telephone concessions and we have public... there are public transport concessions.
CALLER:
The cost of living here has gone up.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can only...
CALLER:
Well you wouldn't know that...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think I would know that. I think I know that the cost of living has gone up, but it hasn't gone up as fast as have wages. And of course the pension is adjusted not only in line with the cost of living increases, but we also make sure that it never falls below 25 per cent of the male total average weekly earnings, which is going up at a faster rate than inflation.
CORDEAUX:
And they have this nasty thing in South Australia where if your pension goes up a little bit, your housing trust rent goes up.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they do ... All the state governments do that. They make that adjustment. Look I don't, Joan, pretend that if you only have the pension to live on that it is a large... do you have your... do you own your own home?
CORDEAUX:
Joan?
CALLER:
No, I don't.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, you rent, do you?
CALLER:
I'm renting.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, you're renting. What sort of... are you in a housing trust residence, or are you renting privately?
CALLER:
I pay $191 a fortnight.
PRIME MINISTER:
$191 a fortnight.
CALLER:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, yes, I see.
CALLER:
Alright then, thank you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
CORDEAUX:
Okay - 8305 1323 - the Prime Minister has got to go fairly soon because you've got a busy day, I know. What about the training base in Queensland?
PRIME MINISTER:
Shoal Bay?
CORDEAUX:
Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's pretty good, and also in the Northern Territory. I think this is a very good agreement to have joint training facilities. It brings extra investment...
CORDEAUX:
And we can benefit from it.
PRIME MINISTER:
We can benefit, the Americans benefit, the local communities benefit. I think it's particularly valuable for the Northern Territory because there are going to be two spots, as I understand it, in the Northern Territory and there will be a training base in Shoal Bay, which is somewhere near Mackay I think.
CORDEAUX:
Is it a fait accompli? It will go ahead?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it'll, I mean it's likely to go ahead but it's not totally certain. But we have indicated to the Americans that we would be very happy to join it, they have to make the final decision, they're obviously interested. Australia's a bit too far away for the permanent basing of American forces here but the idea of having joint training facilities is a great idea and it's a further reinforcement of the importance of the alliance.
CORDEAUX:
And so too is the, they call is Son of Star Wars or whatever it is.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what we've undertaken is to be part of the research into this and I can't understand why people are opposed to the idea of defending, adding an additional element to the defence of Australia. I mean let's not overcomplicate it, we're talking here about providing this country with a capacity to defend itself against the possibility in the future of a missile attack, now I'm not alleging that anybody's going to attack us, I don't know of anybody at the moment who's likely to attack us but the world can change and the idea that we shouldn't at least know about the development of technology, I can't understand on first principles why people would be opposed to such a thing.
CORDEAUX:
How it can start an arms race...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well absolutely, well exactly and my understanding also Jeremy is that the reaction of the Chinese and the Russians and others has not been as difficult and as bristling as some people suggested might be the case because they see it very much for what it is and that is a defensive exercise. I mean we have the closest possible relationships with China, I mean heavens above, we're one of China's best customers and the Chinese President addressed our parliament the day after President Bush did last year and we are side by side with our closeness to the United States, we are building a very close relationship with a country like China but this is very much about planning prudently for the possibility that one day something we don't want to happen could happen and why wouldn't we prepare for it? It's part of this long term decision making of which I speak.
CORDEAUX:
Perfectly reasonable, and what about the Free Trade Agreement? Where is that? Is that stuck somewhere?
PRIME MINISTER:
No it's not stuck, it's still being debated in the American Congress and I'm hopeful that it will go through the American Congress sometime this month. Exactly when I can't be certain and then it will be up to the Labor Party in the Senate because the minor parties, for reasons best known to themselves, have said they will vote against the necessary legislation and therefore it will be in the hands of the Labor Party and I can't for the life of me understanding what they're dithering about. I mean I signed a Free Trade Agreement with the Thai Prime Minister...
CORDEAUX:
They supported that?
PRIME MINISTER:
With a snap of the fingers...as quick as anything...
CORDEAUX:
(inaudible).
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't know, and the same thing with Singapore, there was never, there was no umming and ahhing, there was no special committee to look at that. Mr Latham got up and supported my remarks when I welcomed the Thai Prime Minister and spoke warmly, I mean we were in furious agreement about just about everything and so we should have been because that was in the national interest but so is the American Free Trade Agreement and if you think I'm just giving a Liberal perspective, get Mike Rann in here and ask him what he thinks of the American Free Trade Agreement, get Steve Bracks, get Bob Carr, get Peter Beattie, get Geoff Gallop, get all of the State Premiers, they all think the Free Trade Agreement is a no brainer as far as the future of Australia is concerned.
CORDEAUX:
Or whether it's $6 billion...
PRIME MINISTER:
Whether it's six or eight or four or three or 10 or 12, it's a plus and it stands to reason that if we link ourselves in with the biggest economy in the world we're going to grow further with that economy and we're going to get the further benefits of that economy.
CORDEAUX:
Now I know you've got to run, last question, are you feeling any more comfortable about Iraq now that the handover...
PRIME MINISTER:
I think the handover has gone well, I think it is very good to have Iraqis speaking for Iraq rather than Americans, everybody recognises that and I admire Dr Allawi, I hope he's got a very good security detail because it's a pretty dangerous job being the inaugural Prime Minister of the new Iraq, but I admire them, and if we can move towards democracy and have the elections early next year you would in fact see in the fullness of time something we don't have at the moment and we haven't ever had and that is a democratic Arab state to join Israel as the only other democracy in the Middle East.
CORDEAUX:
There doesn't seem to be any sort of magic bullet that is finally going to stop the violence.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, no there isn't, I think it's a steady process. The notion of re-establishing an indigenous Iraqi Army is a good one, I like the idea of them offering amnesties to people who've not been involved in any kind of high level violence and who aren't organised, I think you've got to be realistic, I mean in every situation where you have tension, there's always a certain amount of live and let live about it, you just have to be realistic. And I'm more optimistic than I was six weeks ago, but it's going to be very hard and there is no way that we should be thinking of pulling our people out, I think everybody should stay where they are and finish the job and it's the last thing the Iraqis want and I think an increasing number of Australian people, whether they agreed with our original decision or not, now say we should stay and finish the job.
CORDEAUX:
With regard to Indonesia, if General Bambang gets up, what do you know about him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I've met him, he's a good man. We of course will work with whoever is elected, I have a good relationship with President Megawati, I know General Wiranto, and I know Amien Rais, the fourth candidate. I will be very happy to work with anybody, Yudhoyono, General Yudhoyono spoke magnificently at the Bali commemoration service in October of last year on behalf of the Indonesian Government, but as I say it's a matter for the Indonesian people. What is terrific is you had a peaceful election, I mean here is a country of...
CORDEAUX:
(inaudible).
PRIME MINISTER:
And people thought it wouldn't be possible, this is the first time they've directed elected their President, it's gone very peacefully, it's, the results have interested, as we know of them now, they've interested and surprised people. I think it's a great tribute to the strength of support for democracy in Indonesia that the election has gone so well and that to me is the most important thing, that's more important in a way than the result.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, thanks for your valuable time, enjoy your stay in Adelaide.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]