HADLEY
Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Ray.
HADLEY:
Always nice to talk to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
HADLEY:
Will this be the last sitting before the election?
PRIME MINISTER:
This is the last sitting before the winter recess. I don't know when the election is going to be held. I notice the speculation but I won't add to it. I honestly don't know. It has to be held sometime in the next six months or so, but exactly when I don't know and I think I'm a long way from making up my mind on it. But this is an important two week sitting and we started it off with a major statement on the plans we have for securing Australia's energy future, with some incentives to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from the use of coal and gas, and also I think some quite exciting proposals to put on display the benefits of the use of solar power in ordinary suburban settings. And the solar cities trial is a major environmental aspect of this statement.
HADLEY:
We confront on a daily basis in states the problems with the judiciary and now we've seen it over these terrorism bail laws and we're likely to change them, or hopefully they'll change them with the agreement of the Opposition, but is it as frustrating for you as the rest of us? We're on war footing basically in relation to terrorism, people are caught, they appear to have rather substantial cases against them, and the magistrates and the judges across the various states and territories release them back into the community.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Ray, this is a difficult issue for me. I respect the role of the judiciary in our system and I'm loathe to make... in fact I won't make generic attacks on the judiciary. I do respect its role, and however strongly people may feel about individual cases, when you're in my position it's not the right thing to do to attack the judiciary in a generic way. We think there is a case for changing the law, and that's our role - to change the law. And it's also our role to ask the Director of Public Prosecutions to appeal against sentences if we think the sentence is too light, and it's also our role to ask the Director of Public Prosecutions to... I'm sorry, to ask the parliament to amend the laws if we think they should be changed, and that is what we're doing. So by asking the parliament to amend the laws, we're sending a very strong signal as to what our attitude is. But I'm not going to fall into the habit of giving a running commentary on every single decision that is taken about the length of a sentence. In some circumstances it's warranted, but I think as a general rule it's a bad thing for a Prime Minister or a Premier to be giving a running commentary on every single court decision.
HADLEY:
In relation to the terrorism bail laws, is it apparent that the Opposition will support the Government?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is my understanding. I'd be amazed if they didn't. I'd be quite amazed if they didn't because there has been a general reaction in the community on that issue and there has been a political reaction at both a State and a Commonwealth level, and it's the right thing to do. If somebody in my position or the Attorney General thinks that a decision is wrong, then we do have a remedy, and that is to seek to change the law. The role of the judiciary is to apply the laws that parliament have enacted, and that is the case at both the state and the federal level, and that is what we're doing. We're unhappy with the state of affairs, so what we do is we seek to change the law, rather than get into too many specifics in attacking individual decisions.
HADLEY:
Do you think sometimes, under maybe previous regimes, that particularly the High Court, it's a bit cloudy about what its role is? You've made it very definite there that you create the laws and the courts apply them. Do we have sometimes courts wanting to actually make laws, not just enact them?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think over the years you do have swings in judicial cultures, there's no doubt about that. And I think at various stages some judges do see themselves as making laws that they think maybe parliament should have made. It does vary from case to case and from period to period. I think it's desirable, in my judgement it is desirable certainly in the case of the highest courts in the country, to have a group of judges who see their role in a very informed and sensible forward looking manner, to apply the laws that have been enacted by parliament. And I have great confidence in the High Court, I have great confidence in the people who sit on it, and some of those have been appointed by my Government and some have been appointed by the previous Government. I have confidence in all of them and they do a very good job, and I respect the role that they occupy. Courts will always hand down decisions that people don't like, and with the greater media scrutiny of court decisions, it is the case that we're in an era now when court decisions are more closely scrutinised. The Australian public, like the public all around the world, is no longer as accepting as it used to be of decisions handed down from superior bodies, whether they're parliaments, whether they're churches, whether they're courts, whether they're media commentators - no matter what it is, we are a more accountable, transparent society, we are more disposed to be critical, we are more disposed to be questioning. And in the past it was possible for some people to say well the decision has been made and the public will just have to wear it. That is no longer the case. I think people have to explain themselves, and certainly someone in my position is now infinitely more accountable than perhaps my counterparts were 30 or 40 years ago. We appear more frequently on the media, there is more in depth probing of what we do and what we say, and the same thing applies to courts. And I think, to their credit, many judges are aware of this and they're trying to balance the need to be more transparent and accountable with of course the need to preserve their judicial independence, and both are important.
HADLEY:
One of the things I've noticed doing a programme like this on a permanent basis for a couple of years and on a part-time basis for the last decade is that audiences generally are far more sophisticated because of access to the internet and access to a whole range of things, and I think now even for media commentators where it was - yeah, he said it, it must be right or the Prime Minister said it or the High Court has said it, that people are far more questioning than they were previously.
PRIME MINISTER:
Infinitely more Ray, that's just another way of making the point I did a moment ago. People are more demanding of answers, they're better informed. I think the internet has played a role in that. I think talkback radio has played a role. We are a more sophisticated, better informed society and I have a golden rule in dealing with the Australian public and that is that they're normally a step ahead of me and they know, they do, I mean the Australian public is very well informed and the Australian public wants to know the detail of things and this idea that anybody in my position or an equivalent position can fob them off with and I never try to do so with some generalised explanation - it just won't wash anymore and it shouldn't either.
HADLEY:
In light of the Democratic candidate's words from Washington, John Kerry, Mark Latham, the Opposition leader in relation to bringing troops home by Christmas must be feeling further isolated?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, he's certainly on his own. President Bush is against it, John Kerry is against it, I'm against it, Tony Blair's against it, Michael Howard the Conservative leader is against it and very importantly so are the leaders of the interim Iraqi Government - they are very much against it. And the other very important thing is that the United Nations Security Council has now by a 15 to 0 vote given international legal sanction to the continuation of the multi-national force and everybody wants Iraq to be a success. Event the Secretary General of the Arab League said a couple of days ago that it was important for the future of democracy in the Middle East and the future of democracy amongst the Arab states that Iraq's transition to democracy succeed. There's only one democratic country in the Middle East at the moment and that's Israel. None of the Arab states are democratic in the sense that we understand it and wouldn't it be a fantastic breakthrough if Iraq were to be able to transition successfully to democracy. That would be a fantastic breakthrough and the only way that's going to happen will be if we stay there along with the Americans and the British and the others, and including might I say from Asia, countries like Thailand and Korea and Japan. We often forget that many of our friends and partners in the Asian Pacific region also have forces in Iraq. They weren't part of the original operation, but they're certainly part of the stabilisation process and our clear obligation is to make sure that the democratic experiment in Iraq succeeds. If we pull out, why shouldn't the Americans and the British and everyone else pull out and if that were to happen, Iraq would just descend into total bloodshed and chaos.
HADLEY:
A couple of lighter things - did you bring home the present given to you by the Governor of California in hand luggage or did you have to get it shipped back, it's rather large?
PRIME MINISTER:
Very heavy. Very sort of dense Californian bear. It was just very, very heavy. But a very interesting man to meet, very focused on his job, has great public support and is very interested in the possibility of buying lots of natural gas from Australia and bear in mind that if you've looked at it on its own, California's got the fifth largest economy in the world so it's an interesting...
HADLEY:
It's a bit of a basket case at the moment though...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they've had terrible problems with their energy prices. They put a peg on the retail price of energy but not on the wholesale and they just created a chronic shortage of energy and they're still going through the consequences of that decision. That was one of the reasons why the former Governor was thrown out and the "Governator" as they call him was called in as a replacement.
HADLEY:
Jessie Ventura was in Minnesota for a while, a wrestler, an actor.
PRIME MINISTER:
I won't tempt you.
HADLEY:
A rock star joining the Labor Party?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, indeed.
HADLEY:
Now, I note with some interest as well, that a certain Sri Lankan cricketer won't be coming here to play because he doesn't like going to Darwin and other rural parts of Australia. Do you think that perhaps your words of advice relating to Muttiah's action may have also played some role in his decision to stay decision to stay home?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't believe so. I made it very clear at the time that he was very welcome to come.
HADLEY:
Even though he's a chucker?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I was relying very much on the findings of that examination that was carried out in Perth and I think the conclusion of that had something to say about the doosra, but look, he's very welcome to come. He claims that there are personal reasons why he doesn't want to come and I tend to believe that and that's the information I have.
HADLEY:
Maybe the fact that he'll be called again, as he has over here in the past and...?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that could be a factor. But I'm not sure. I just don't know. It's a pity but he has stated that there are personal reasons for it and I'll accept that.
HADLEY:
Now, I don't who organises the annual Press Gallery in Parliament House, but you've got a ball on the night of the State of Origin?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I know. Well, you will have to lodge a formal complaint with the President of the Federal Parliamentary Press Gallery, I think it's still the very esteemed Malcolm Farr from the Sydney Daily Telegraph.
HADLEY:
Well, I don't know that Malcolm's a rugby league supporter?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm sure working for the Daily Telegraph, he'd have to be wouldn't he?
HADLEY:
It's compulsory, the boss owns the game.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, exactly. I reckon he'd be battling not to. But in fairness perhaps to him it is very hard to get a night when the Great Hall is available and when a few of people they want to go, such as myself, are available. But it is a bit of a pity. I had a difficulty getting to the last one. So I certainly hope that I can get to the third one which will be on in a couple of weeks and I don't think parliament will be sitting then, but I hope I'm in Sydney on that night so I can go to it.
HADLEY:
We normally see security guards with those little ear pieces in talking to each other about security matters. Maybe they'll be a stack more tonight listening to 2CC in Canberra for the broadcasting?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think there will be, yes. But it's an unfortunate timing. It really is. I'm sorry.
HADLEY:
Not your fault. We'll blame Malcolm Farr. Alright Prime Minister, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate you taking time to talk to us this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Nice talking to you.