FAINE:
Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning. How are you? Can you hear me okay?
FAINE:
Indeed we can, and thank you indeed for joining us on the programme this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Traffic was a bit heavy this morning. Sorry.
FAINE:
I can understand. It happens. Celebrating 30 years in parliament and appearing almost daily on talkback radio around the nation to try and work out the public's reaction to the Budget and the Iraq strategy. Are you tonight announcing an increase in the Australian troop commitment to Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I'm not Jon. What I'm doing tonight is explaining in a formal and detailed way the reasons why Australia should not cut and run, the reasons why it would be an enormous victory for the cause of terrorism if the coalition were to lose its will, and also to detail some of the better, more positive stories that are there to be told about Iraq, about the changes, about the improvements in services and opportunities for the people of Iraq which have taken place since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.
FAINE:
But you're not trying to deny the bloodshed presumably or the ongoing mounting list of casualties, including now of course one of the most senior officials hand-picked by the Americans to give Iraqis a future.
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course I'm not, but are you suggesting that the response to this is to give up? See, it's all very well, and I'm not personalising this to you but as you can understand, I'm really typifying the argument that is put in that question. It's all very well for people to say well isn't it terrible these things happening. Of course they are. You have to ask yourself the question - why is it happening? It's happening because a minority of people in Iraq are determined to deny that country the hope of a democratic future, and if they succeed, then that will be an enormous setback for the cause of democracy in the Middle East, it will be a terrible signal to that area and to other parts of the world that if you persist long enough and hard enough and if you're ruthless enough as a group of terrorists, you ultimately win. That's really what is at stake and that's why I find the attitude taken by the Labor Party here, the attitude taken by many people, to be so short sighted and so irresponsible.
FAINE:
The word ruthless is an interesting one Prime Minister, because the Muslim world analysis is that the United States, Britain and of course Australia are being ruthless in their attempt to impose a different form of governance on...
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think all of... I don't think it's right to say that all of the Muslim world says that. It's a mistake to talk as if the Islamic world speaks with one voice on everything, just as it's a mistake to talk about Asia as distinct from talking about the attitudes of different countries, or to talk about Europe, or to talk about Christendom for that matter. Different countries take different stances. There were many countries in the Islamic sphere, if I can put it that way, that rendered valuable assistance to the coalition in the military operation in Iraq. There were many countries in that region which are closer to the United States, there are others which are not. We have very good relations with many of the countries in that region, not only with Israel of course, with whom we have very good relations, but also countries such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia. We have been quick to take up the opportunities now presented by the different attitude of the Libyan Government, her renunciation of weapons of mass destruction. Australia has been quick to respond to the new climate there, and might I express the view that Libya would not have given up weapons of mass destruction had it not been in part because of the stance taken by the United States and others over Iraq.
FAINE:
Prime Minister, you've agreed to take calls this morning and we will take calls. 9414 1774. Have either George W Bush or Tony Blair shared with you their long term exit strategy for Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it's always been the case that we seek to stabilise the country and then hand it over to the Iraqi people.
FAINE:
It's emerged in the last 24 hours that they are making plans to get out. Have they shared those plans with you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't accept that that is an accurate reading of what is occurring. There has been no fundamental change in the last 24 hours.
FAINE:
Or could it be that they are making plans, they're just not telling the Australians?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no. That's not the case.
FAINE:
Toni from Box Hill has called in to talk about Iraq. Toni, good morning. Go ahead.
CALLER:
Oh good morning. Mr Prime Minister, I just want to say congratulations on reaching your 30 year contribution to Australian life and I'd like to mention two things. One, Iraq, which appears there's some consideration to increasing our troops there, I think we need to help more. Secondly, I wonder would you please some time over the next few months give some consideration to increasing our immigration levels and make them more equal. I think we have too many people from nations that are basically, well, I live in Box Hill, if you know Box Hill and I have a daughter living in (inaudible) so I'm not a racist by the way. But I just think we should not penalise white Europeans. I think our policies have done that.
FAINE:
Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Toni, on immigration, if I can take that first - our policies don't penalise white Europeans. We still, for example, take a very large number of immigrants from the United Kingdom and from Ireland. And fewer now from the traditional European source countries in the post-World War II period. That is the case, we do take fewer from countries like Italy and Greece that were major sources of migrants and wonderful sources of migrants after the war. That's not the result of any deliberate policy of discrimination, it's just the way the system which is completely colour blind and racially blind, and is meant to pick people on merit and the contribution they make. So we don't certainly set out to discriminate against any particular group. On the question of an increased commitment to Iraq, we don't at the moment believe there's any case for us making any major contribution, any major increase in our contribution. I've said repeatedly, that it could be and I'm not going to announce this tonight incidentally, it could be that there would be in the future some adjustment at the margin that could result in a few more people going. We don't have anything particular in mind, but I'm saying that in case we might do that. But given our other commitments and given the size of Australia's military capacity to make a major additional contribution is simply not there. We do have responsibilities in the Solomon Islands. We have quite a lot of other responsibilities in our own region and given our size, I think we've made a very big and a very significant contribution already.
FAINE:
Toni, thanks for you call and Ron from Reservoir wants to talk about the same issue. Good morning Ron.
CALLER:
Yeah, John. The Member Bennelong will not serve us another 30 years because he's going to get kicked out and the reason he's going to be kicked out is the man is a liar.
FAINE:
John, can you ask your question?
CALLER:
Sorry.
FAINE:
Do you want the Prime Minister a question?
CALLER:
...do you want to vet all the calls, do you?
FAINE:
Do you want to ask the Prime Minister a question, John?
CALLER:
You claim that this is a talkback to the Prime Minister. You want to vet the calls.
FAINE:
No, you're on air, John and you're talking to the Prime Minister. Do you want to ask him a question?
CALLER:
Yes. I want to know why he consistently lies to the people who placed their faith in him...
FAINE:
What lie in particular to you want to point to, John?
CALLER:
Sorry.
FAINE:
What do you want to point to, in particular, as a lie?
CALLER:
Where do you start, Jon. The children overboard will do, the GST will do, the lying about Reith will do, Alston's another liar. All these people that we've had to put up with and the Prime Minister has sat back putting on his googly eyes and told us a bunch of lies and expects us to believe it. While, we have believed you in the past Prime Minister, we no longer do. We will not vote for you and I believe Mr Valder believes that you're going to lose your seat at the next election and I think that's hurrah for us because we're sick of liars.
FAINE:
Ron, thank you. Prime Minister, there was a question in there...
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think he likes me!
FAINE:
I think you got the drift on that one! Do want to respond to the principal point he makes which is that you'll be punished at the ballot box?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I might get punished at the ballot box for a whole lot of reasons, but that's something that you accept in public life. I believe that the Government's got a good case to put to the Australian people but in the end they will decide. But there's a long way to go yet before the election, irrespective of when it's held and I know there some people on the other side who are desperate to see the end of this Government. There are a lot of people who believe this Government has brought stability and respect and prosperity and opportunity to the Australian people over the last eight and a half years and particularly when they look at the management of the economy they're none too anxious to replace the Howard-Costello partnership with the Latham-Simon Crean partnership.
FAINE:
But the big risk is for you at the moment, in particular, that you've massively misread the mood of the Australian people, not just on Iraq but also, for instance on the budget. Every poll that's been conducted says that people want better services from Government rather than tax cuts. You've gone ahead, you've given them tax cuts, you've had no bounce in the polls and now you're locked into a strategy that doesn't seem to be paying you any dividend?
PRIME MINISTER:
John, if Governments are to get a bounce out of the polls they don't get that bounce within a few days, they get it after a period of time. We may get no bounce, but we brought down a budget that we believed was good. I can justify on grounds of sound policy all of the major decisions in that budget and as for services, well we increased our investment in Medicare, through the Medicare Plus package by about $3 billion only a few months ago and we've also announced major increases of Federal Government investment in government schools, catholic schools and independent schools.
FAINE:
Yes. But at the same time you announced tax cuts and then the world oil price went up?
PRIME MINISTER:
Jon, what you're really saying...
FAINE:
The tax cuts get taken away an eroded by the increase in petrol price.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, no its not. It's only the case if it remains, it's only the case that it has an impact if it remains at that level indefinitely. The point I'm making, Jon, is that it's too early for people to make a judgement on what the electoral reaction to the budget has been. I know there's a craven desire on the part of commentators, a desperate desire on the part of commentators to call the result almost immediately after the race has started. The race is till in progress and it's far too early for people to start calling the result because we haven't even got to the home stretch yet.
FAINE:
No, but you would say that because you didn't get the bounce. If you had got the bounce, you'd had said - look, it had the effect we wanted.
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think you can fairly say that if you look at my comments on polls over the years, I've always been very circumspect because I know how much they move around.
FAINE:
(inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
Both ways.
FAINE:
Both ways, swings and roundabouts.
PRIME MINISTER:
Indeed.
FAINE:
Prime Minister, the announcement this morning from your Education Minister Brendan Nelson.
PRIME MINISTER:
Terrific announcement, this.
FAINE:
Well, isn't this another example. Mark Latham makes a suggestion on politicians' superannuation, you go ahead and steal it or you go ahead and endorse it and then implement it. He made a lot of ground on child literacy. Bingo, you've come up with a programme to improve literacy.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hang on, Jon. We have had federal literacy and numeracy programmes for the last seven years.
FAINE:
But not as a priority.
PRIME MINISTER:
Sorry. That is wrong Jon. Wrong, wrong. David Kemp when he was Federal Education Minister put this issue on the agenda. He put this issue on the agenda six or seven years ago. I can remember seeing him on major current affairs, television programmes and listening to him time and time again saying that what the Federal Government was going to do was to improve literacy standards in government schools by tying the provision of additional money to the introduction of nationwide literacy and numeracy tests and this $700 voucher for parents of children in Victoria, for example, who haven't met the year three literacy standard is a product of that policy and that's a policy that we have now been operating for a number of years. Any suggestion that it's come from the Labor Party, I'm pleased that the Labor Party is of a similar view, I'm not quite sure of the detail of what they're on about. But if they think literacy and numeracy is something that should be focused on then I think that's terrific. This idea that it came from the Labor Party...
FAINE:
Well, they've made it a priority.
PRIME MINISTER:
....well politics is also about accuracy and I have an obligation of accuracy and you have an obligation of accuracy...
FAINE:
Indeed.
PRIME MINISTER:
And, I'm telling you and you can go away and check with all of your researchers that back in probably 1997 when David Kemp had some responsibility for this or 1998 - we ran this issue literacy and numeracy in schools. We tied the provision of extra money to it.
FAINE:
Do you concede he's lifted the profile of the issue significantly, it's certainly something that someone somewhere in Government has talked about before, but not to the point where it's now on the front page.
PRIME MINISTER:
Jon, I'm sorry. It is not just right to say we talked about it. We put a lot of extra money into it. We did more than talk about it. We said to the States, we will give you extra money for literacy and numeracy programmes, if you lift the standards. We have been measuring literacy and numeracy standards against national benchmarks for a number of years.
FAINE:
You were talking about testing for literacy and funding schools for literacy. But this is about giving money to parents?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, this is all part of the same process. But Jon, I find this rather fascinating. We announce a programme, your focus is not on whether it's a good programme or not, your focus is on trying to analyse who said most about this first.
FAINE:
No my.... it might have in the pretend election campaign that...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, look can I tell you I'm more interested in the impact it will have on the children who can't read and write properly.
FAINE:
All right, Lucy from Geelong wants to...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, hang on, let me finish. That is my interest and I think this is great news for parents in Victoria whose children have literacy and numeracy difficulties and it's yet another example of what the Government in this area has been doing now for a number of years.
FAINE:
Lucy from Geelong, good morning.
CALLER:
Morning. Look, I'd just like to say that the $600 plus the tax cut that I'm going to get, because I'm one of those people who earn over $52,000, isn't going to cover it all. The extra fees that I pay in childcare, which have gone up18 per cent, and also for example I took my daughter to the doctor on Sunday, $50. I had to have the doctor come on Thursday night to see my daughter, now $100. That money is not going to help. I'm one of those people who'd like to see the money out there given to everyone in terms of services and I think it just sort of promotes that greedy society that I feel that the Prime Minister wants us to be. And that divide between the rich and poor is just getting worse and worse and worse. I'd like to live and give my daughter a society where she feels safe, where everyone has a chance and it doesn't go on how much money you have or which class that you're in.
FAINE:
Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that doesn't sound a spontaneous middle Australian voter, but...
FAINE:
Sounds like out of someone's election speech almost, doesn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah it does, it certainly does. I think if we can have the next one, I think we'll get to what people are actually thinking. I mean... it's perfectly legitimate for people who've got strong political views to ring up and give their views. And let's face it, people do it on both sides, I'm not saying it just happens on other side. But the reality is that if we accept on face value everything that that person said as being a spontaneous expression of a completely nonpartisan view, it is nonetheless the case that her position is better off. Is she saying that she'd be better off without the increased child family tax benefit? Would she be better off without income tax cut? Of course not.
FAINE:
Well, Prime Minister, it was a better call than Ron, the one before hand.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I'm improving. You're doing a very good job of monitoring it mate.
FAINE:
Speaking of monitoring, no we'll leave that for another time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Nothing to do with me.
FAINE:
The International Cricket Council are in Zimbabwe. You've called consistently for the Australian cricket team not to play against a team... a Zimbabwean team selected other than on merit. What should they do about the Test programme in Zimbabwe now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, these things in the end are matters for the Australian Cricket Board, or Cricket Australia as it now calls itself and the International Cricket Council. I don't think teams should be selected on a racial basis. I don't want to create a difficulty for the Australian team. They're in Zimbabwe at the moment.
FAINE:
Should they come home?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, look, that's a matter for Cricket Australia. I don't want to tell Cricket Australia what to do. But I do want to express the view that I think most Australians hold and that is that there should not be any selection of teams on a racial basis. After all, that was the basis of the original 20 year ban on South Africa, wasn't it, way back in the 1960s and 70s when South Africa was exiled from international sport for probably 20 years and the reason for that is that their teams were selected on a racial basis. Now Cricket Australia is working its way through this and I know Malcolm Speed, who is an Australian, but he's the executive director of the International Cricket Council, and he went to Harare to talk to the Zimbabwean Cricket Association and apparently they flicked through the invitation at the last moment. I think that is unfortunate. But the Australians are there and I would never say or do anything that created difficulties and waves for an Australian sporting team who's in another country trying to play cricket and trying to do the right thing.
FAINE:
Cameron in Geelong, good morning.
CALLER:
Oh, good morning John.
FAINE:
You're through to the Prime Minister, go ahead.
CALLER:
Minister Howard, I'm a GP working in Geelong and I was just wondering whether the increase in Medicare expenditure, I guess my concern is that the patients who don't have a healthcare card or a pension card are hit with a higher cost just to keep our doors open and several years ago there was a study that showed that to keep a practice running effectively the cost of a consultation should be about $40 if the Medicare rebate for full paying patients still is only about $25.
FAINE:
Bulkbilling rates are back up aren't they Cameron?
CALLER:
Oh, I think they are for pensioners and for children but most, I guess, half of our patients don't have that card and we can't afford to just get the bulkbilling amount to provide a proper service.
FAINE:
Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the nationwide figure is 62 per cent, is of consultation... GP consultations is accounted for children under 16 and cardholders. The gentleman has a point. There was a relative values study that argued that there should be a further across the board increase in the Medicare rebate, that's true. Like all such matters we had to take into account the impact on the budget of increasing the Medicare rebate from $25 to $40 and that would have been a huge increase and we have chosen to significantly increase it by $5 for cardholders and for children under 16 and by $7.50 in rural areas where bulkbilling rates are particularly low and there already has been a very encouraging increase, 1.8 per cent in the March quarter in bulkbilling rates across the country in a situation where only two out of the three months captured by that quarterly measurement were covered by the increases that I've just mentioned. I would expect the next quarter to be even better.
FAINE:
Alright, thank you for your call Dr Cameron. Just a few quick ones from me Prime Minister before we get up to the news. The Liberal Member for the seat of Makin in Adelaide Trish Draper has taken an injunction against Channel Seven's Today Tonight programme to stop them showing a programme which alleges that she went on an overseas junket or a trip, a parliamentary funded trip, with her then boyfriend and claimed him as a spouse. Have you spoken to her and told her whether you think that she did the right thing or the wrong thing?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I haven't spoken to her but I am told, and the relevant minister has said that what happened on this occasion was in accordance with her entitlement. People have been, under the rules, allowed to travel overseas with somebody with whom they have a relationship, somebody... and bear in mind that this lady was previously married and divorced and she had a relationship with somebody and that is not uncommon and it's been permitted under the rules now for sometime...
FAINE:
You have no problem with it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I would have a problem with anybody who breaks the rules and I'm told that what occurred on this occasion was within the rules.
FAINE:
So taking your boyfriend on a parliamentary trip is fine by you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what I'm saying is there are rules. Different people have different views about these things but some years ago on a bipartisan basis it was accepted that you could go on a visit with somebody with whom you're in a steady relationship and I think that has occurred on both sides.
FAINE:
Alright, we'll have to leave it there. Prime Minister, thank you for your time. look forward to seeing you in the Melbourne studios some time soon. The Prime Minister of Australia taking your calls, Mr John Howard.
[ends]