MARTIN:
The Prime Minister joins us live now. Prime Minister, thank you for being with us.
PRIME MINISTER:
How are you Ray?
MARTIN:
And welcome home. I';m glad to see you nice and safe. Was that low-level dash into Baghdad a bit reckless for our Prime Minister given all the casualties?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, that';s a small risk that I and others with me take compared with the much bigger risk that our troops take and I wanted to be there principally to say thank you and to say that whatever people';s view are about their deployment I know that I speak for all Australians in wishing them well and hoping that they remain safe and sound into the future.
MARTIN:
PM, you know that Australians at barbecues and pubs and clubs and lounge rooms are calling Iraq are bloody mess at the moment, that if we stay until, as you say, the job is done that we could be there for years and years?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t think it';ll be years and years. But what is at stake now is very important. If we pack up and go. If everybody does that it will be enormous victory because there is terrorist support for what';s happening in Iraq. There';s no doubt about that. I mean, thee was an incident involving the HMAS Stuart a couple of days where on my advice an attempt was being made to blow up oil refineries. Well that is an attempted act of terrorism against vital infrastructure. You can';t call it anything else. People who say this has got nothing to do with the war against terrorism are kidding themselves.
MARTIN:
But what';s the job that has to be done?
PRIME MINISTER:
Stabilising the situation in Iraq, so that Iraq can have a democratic future. That';s the job.
MARTIN:
So a democratic future, not a democracy.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, democracy, I mean a future that they choose for themselves after a proper electoral process and I';m not trying to be cute with those words. They want a free future and I';m satisfied, particularly as a result of the things I learnt when I was there that a majority of people in Iraq want that. A majority of people don';t want the terrorists to succeed. Clearly, the majority of Iraqis don';t want to be governed by the Americans or the British or us. I understand it, I wouldn';t want to be governed by anybody else either and I think the Americans themselves want to go as soon as they can. They told me that. But they';re not going to go and leave behind chaos and a situation where terrorists and people who have no regard for democracy or true religious beliefS take over.
MARTIN:
But chaos and terrorism is worst today then it was six months ago.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, but life in Iraq for all of the difficulties is better than what it was under Saddam Hussein. Let me give you some facts, they spend 26 times more on public health then they did under Saddam. Schools have opened. Universities have opened. Electricity supply is arguably better now then it was under Saddam Hussein. All of the opinion polls that have been conducted in Iraq say that everybody';s glad that Saddam has gone and what you are witnessing at the moment is a determined attempt by hardcore elements, they';re well armed and they';re effective, to deny the people of Iraq a democratic future. That is the thing that is most at stake.
MARTIN:
You don';t think though that we are close to civil war or that we';ll have a civil war?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think civil war misunderstands it. I think the majority want a democratic future without foreigners and that';s understandable. But you can';t have it without foreigners unless you can control the country. That';s why having an effective military of your own is so important and that is where Australians come in again.
MARTIN:
To train?
PRIME MINISTER:
Training, yeah. Very much so.
MARTIN:
Is that where you think that might be an increase in terms of…?
PRIME MINISTER:
There could be. The point I want to make about the increased Ray is we don';t have a capacity to send a battalion or a brigade. I';ve made that very clear all along. But there might at the margin be some additions and I just wanted to make that plain so that if and when it occurs or when it occurs people don';t come back and say – well, you said there wasn';t going to be a increase. But I';m not talking here about any significant change from our current position.
MARTIN:
Given the difference between you and Mark Latham and the Labor Party on Iraq. Do you think Iraq will be the issue that will make the difference in the federal election?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t think it';ll be the only issue – no. I think it';s an issue and there is a clear difference. I mean, Mr Latham has said that our troops are in Iraq for symbolic reasons. You go and tell that to the crew of the Stuart who just fished seven Americans, including two dead Americans out of the water after a terrorist attack. I mean that is an insult to say that that is symbolic. That';s not symbolic and then they coordinate the response to another terrorist attack. You can';t call that symbolic, Ray. That is very serious and dangerous business.
MARTIN:
Prime Minister, you told me on Australia Day this year that your greatest fear for 2004 is a terrorist act in Australia. We now have arrested two alleged terrorists. Is your fear greater today than it was five months ago?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, my fear remains. I can';t and won';t say anything about those arrests. There are due processes and I don';t want to say anything.
MARTIN:
Is it part of a team do you think?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, look, I don';t really Ray want to get into any of that because there is a process and I don';t want to say or do anything that prejudices.
MARTIN:
A proper fear though Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, my fear remains irrespective of those arrests about the possible terrorist attack. All of our societies. Our society, Britain, many European societies, Indonesia has suffered terrible terrorist attacks. I mean we have to understand that we are involved in a unique kind of war. This is not an old war with armies rolling across borders. This is a more insidious war and that fear remains. But I';m not paranoid about it and I remain an optimistic, hopeful, cheerful Australian and I want all of my fellow Australians to feel the same. I mean, in the end Ray we';ve got to get on with our lives but we';ve got to understand we';re living in a new order and we need new methods and new responses.
MARTIN:
In a word, Prime Minister. If your decision in Iraq is the wrong one and you get kicked out because of it, you';ll live with that?
PRIME MINISTER:
I will. Ray, I believe I was right then. I believe I';m right now but as always I';m in the hands of the Australian people. They are my masters and in the end whatever decision they make about me I will accept.
MARTIN:
And mistresses.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
MARTIN:
Thank you.
[ends]