CARLTON:
And indeed the Prime Minister does join us from our studio in Parliament House, Canberra. Good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Mike.
CARLTON:
That was a very angry, turbulent day in Canberra yesterday, this issue of troop withdrawals from Iraq, wasn';t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes. It';s an important issue. I think the Opposition is wrong on this and I feel very strongly about it. This is not a debate about whether we should have been in Iraq in the first place. I know there are different views on that. I know your view on that. I know Mr Latham';s view on that. I know the views of many others on that. And you know my view. But having gone there, we';ve got to stay and finish the job. That';s our simple proposition. And you don';t set arbitrary deadlines. I know that you got an arbitrary deadline out of him on your programme eight days ago.
CARLTON:
Christmas.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you did, because I don';t think that was really the policy all along because I';ve just unearthed a comment he made 24 hours after being made Leader, and he was asked this question, and he quite rightly said “I';ve got to think about that. It';s very serious. It';s something that I';ve got to get advice on. I';m not going to make a top of the head decision”. Yet he now claims that his Shadow Cabinet had decided on it a year ago. Well if the Shadow Cabinet had decided on it a year ago, why didn';t he remember that?
CARLTON:
Do you think it was a top of the head decision when he was talking to me?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I can';t prove it. I can';t put myself in somebody';s mind. But I think he would have been a little euphoric about the opinion polls he';d read in the newspapers that morning and maybe he got a little expansive.
CARLTON:
Yeah. You think he';s a bit flaky, don';t you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look I';m not making character judgements, no.
CARLTON:
Go on.
PRIME MINISTER:
No I won';t. I';m dealing with the substance of one issue. I';m not into the business of making character assessments.
CARLTON:
Okay, well is policy making then, in the Labor Party, under Mr Latham – is that a bit flaky?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I';m not even going to say that. What I';m going to say is simply this – that on this issue, for the reasons I have outlined, I think he';s wrong. I think it sends the wrong signal. At the moment, particularly in the wake of the Madrid bombings, we should not be giving the impression that we are making policy that has been influenced by the acts of terrorists, and that';s what I';m significantly concerned about. I also think it';s a bad look for Australia to be breaking ranks with the other 35 countries that are involved in some way or another in the Iraqi operation.
CARLTON:
So Prime Minister, how long do we stay there then? That';s really an open ended commitment, no end in sight, isn';t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Until the job is finished.
CARLTON:
Latham';s saying the same thing.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, he';s not. No, he';s saying Christmas. I mean what Latham is saying is that we should really pull our forces out when the handover to the Iraqi authority takes place. Now that is scheduled at the moment for the 30th of June. The reason he talks about Christmas is that he knows we won';t hand over on the 30th of June and the first opportunity he will have, if he wins the election, is to bring them home by Christmas. But he';s not saying leave them there until the job is done. I';m saying that. I mean I';ve said that about the air traffic controllers. This furphy that in some way what we';re doing with the air traffic controllers contradicts our position… our position with them is that they will come home when their job is completed, in other words when Iraqis have been adequately trained to run Baghdad Airport. Now that';s the reason they were sent there in the first place. And obviously when that task is completed, they will come home. But that is commonsense. That';s our principle. You don';t set an arbitrary date and say we';re going to pull them home, come what may.
CARLTON:
But haven';t you got an open ended commitment then to keeping Australian troops there, committed to decisions really taken in the White House and the Pentagon?
PRIME MINISTER:
We';ve got a commitment to leave them there until the job is done.
CARLTON:
But how do we know that? When it';s done?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we will make a judgement on that. Obviously we control the disposition of our own forces. We will obviously talk to others. And if you';re saying to me can I name a day and a month, or even a month or an approximation of months, when we might be able to say the job is done, no I can';t do that, because that is not realistic.
CARLTON:
You seemed to indicate earlier on when the troops went there, that it would only be a matter of months, not years. Now it';s starting to look like years, isn';t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Mike, I think everybody thought a year ago when the war finished that the transition phase might be shorter. But that hasn';t turned out to be the case and quite sensibly, we are saying that they should stay there until the job is finished. I did indicate a long time ago, way back in April, May of last year, that the forces we';d left on the ground in and around Iraq would stay there according to the circumstances that operated on the ground.
CARLTON:
Yeah, alright. Do you believe Mr Latham misled the Parliament and people yesterday with his claims to have had intelligence briefings?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he';s had intelligence briefings, but the information I have does not support his claim that he';d had lengthy discussions about Iraq. That';s quite plain from the information that I have had. He';s not had lengthy discussions about Iraq. I mean the impression he has sought to give was that he';d sat down and had very lengthy discussions about all of the things that should be taken into account in determining his Iraqi policy. My understanding is that the briefings that he has had, quite properly had, were the sort of briefings that an Opposition Leader is entitled to have about the operations of the intelligence services. They were not briefings and discussions that were designed to canvass the Iraqi issue and they certainly didn';t involve, so I am told, the words he used – and that he has had lengthy discussions about Iraq. The two meetings that he referred to, I';m advised were the sort of meetings that an Opposition Leader would have from the two agencies to acquaint him with the operations of those agencies. Now whether the word ‘Iraq'; was mentioned in the course of those discussions, I don';t know, but they plainly weren';t lengthy discussions about Iraq. They were designed as introductory briefings about the operations of those agencies.
CARLTON:
Right. Prime Minister, could we switch to another topic. His announcement yesterday that any Labor Government, or Latham Labor Government, would abolish ATSIC. I assume you were going to do much the same thing, weren';t you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I';ve indicated some weeks ago that I think ATSIC is failing the indigenous people and I have all the doubts in the world about having a separate body. In the past when we have tried to reform ATSIC in the way we think desirable, many of those attempts have been blocked by the Labor Party. Way back in 1996 we tried to do that, and it was unsuccessful. We certainly think ATSIC is dysfunctional. I am not going to comment about the Chairman. There are legal issues involved there. I won';t talk about that. But I do think that the notion of having a separate body has been demonstrated to be unsound.
CARLTON:
Can I pin you down more on that. Would you also, in a new Howard Government, abolish ATSIC?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are right at the moment examining a report on ATSIC which we received from three people – Bob Collins, the former Labor Minister, John Hannaford, a former Liberal Minister in New South Wales, and Jackie Huggins, a very respected indigenous woman. And we';ll not short circuit that process. I want that to go ahead.
CARLTON:
But you';re inclined in that direction?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well my view is very plain. I stated it in the plainest possible terms several weeks ago.
CARLTON:
All the doubts in the world.
PRIME MINISTER:
All the doubts in the world. And I certainly don';t believe that anything is achieved by abolishing ATSIC and replacing it, as apparently the Labor Party seems to be contemplating, with other forms of representative bodies. I don';t think that works. I really don';t. And I think what we have to do is have the principle that everybody is treated equally, but you do have special programmes to address particular disadvantage. And let me make it plain that the indigenous community does have particular disadvantage. I';ve never denied that. It';s plain as anything. And you do have to have some special programmes to assist people. But I think it';s desirable that they be delivered in a mainstream way.
CARLTON:
Alright. Mr Howard, one last question if I could. A Newspoll in The Australian today puts Labor ahead in marginal seats around the country. Does that worry you at all? I wouldn';t think so.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that particular survey is based upon polls we';ve already had. It';s not a new poll. It';s a new analysis of old polls. Look we';re behind at the moment. There';s no doubt about that. And we have the job in front of us to win. We are behind.
CARLTON:
You';re the underdog.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well yes, we are.
CARLTON:
Really?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think genuinely. I don';t think there is any doubt in the world that we are behind and we';ve got a hell of a fight to win. I have no false illusions. I think this is a huge fight.
CARLTON:
Prime Minister, thanks very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]