JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister John Howard, welcome to the 891 Studios.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you very much. Good to be here. Nice studio.
JOURNALIST:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
Roomy.
JOURNALIST:
There';s plenty of room to move. A lot of people say that.
PRIME MINISTER:
It is. This is a very roomy studio, very very good.
JOURNALIST:
We';ll have to ask Prime Minister for more money for the ABC when they walk in (inaudible). And your walk?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
JOURNALIST:
Adelaide is a great city for walks.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I think that walk along the Torrens is fantastic. There';s not a better one in Australia. I';ve done it the last three mornings. Always do. I stayed at the Hyatt, and it';s a great spot.
JOURNALIST:
How';s your ticker?
PRIME MINISTER:
Good I hope. The last time I checked, it was pretty good.
JOURNALIST:
I mean you would have regular check ups, I imagine.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh every year I suppose. I mean I';m not sort of paranoid about it, but I';m very lucky I keep reasonably good health and I haven';t suffered any heart trouble over the years.
JOURNALIST:
You whack along at a cracking pace.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I walk pretty fast.
JOURNALIST:
I';m envious. Matthew Abraham and David Bevan. John Howard, the Prime Minister of Australia, in the studio with us at 14.8 degrees. It';s 25 to 9. And we are joined now by our regional listeners. We can relax into the interview with Prime Minister John Howard. Prime Minister, welcome again on behalf of the regional listeners of South Australia.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
JOURNALIST:
Last night I was at some friends'; house and we were doing a fairly harmless activity, we were actually planning the Easter liturgy for Care for Parish Church. So we';re sitting down and, you know, bible readings and all this sort of gear. The thing we were talking about though, as we were talking about, was well we';re next cab off the rank, that if there is going to be a terrorist attack, it will be during the next federal election. If you were a terrorist organisation, that';s when you';d do it. Now this was not… this was hardly a cell of Pravda or anything like this. This was middle class Adelaide people sitting around, fairly harmless activity. These are the sorts of things we';re saying. What do you have to say to reassure people who feel that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can';t tell them that it won';t happen here. I';ve never pretended otherwise. In a sense, terrorism really bolted onto the front pages, if I can put it that way, after the 11th of September. I can';t give a promise or a guarantee. What I can promise and guarantee is that we';ll take all the steps necessary, and the best thing you can do is to pump as much money and as many resources into intelligence agencies. You can';t have a policeman on every train, on every bus, in every taxi, watching every car. That';s possible up to a degree, but it';s just impossible to so comprehensively guard every vulnerable spot. The reassuring things are that we don';t have active terrorist cells in Australia, the way that there were in Spain. You';ve got to remember there have been terrorist acts in Spain for quite a long time. Now most of them have come from ETA, which is the supporter of the Basque separatists, but there have been other groups. We';ve been a terrorist target for a long time.
JOURNALIST:
But the feeling now is that we have made ourselves a terrorist target because of our involvement in the coalition of the willing in Iraq.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well my strongest response to that is to point out that the terrorist act that has claimed the most Australian lives in our history, Bali, occurred before Iraq. And, you know, it';s a pretty powerful piece of evidence that we have been a target for a long time. And my argument is not that we';re not a target. I';m not arguing that. All western countries are targets, and so are other countries. I mean Indonesia suffered terrorist attacks and Indonesia didn';t support the coalition of the willing in Iraq. The Philippines has suffered terrorist attacks, Morocco has, Saudi Arabia has, you can go through a long list, Turkey. These countries took different positions on Iraq and I';m not downplaying the terrorist threat, but this idea that this is all… we';re a terrorist target because of Iraq, is just not correct. That';s the argument I';m putting.
JOURNALIST:
Would you expect a heightened alert for terrorism during a federal election campaign? Would you expect that…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is something that we would take advice on from the body that is competent to give that advice, which is ASIO. ASIO is the threat assessment body in Australia. It';s the body, more than any, that can give the most cogent intelligence assessments. Now if there were a heightened threat, then we would obviously say so. I reflect, as Prime Minister, the intelligence advice I get on these matters, and if there is any reason to lift the threat level, well we will do so. But at the moment there';s none and there wasn';t any decision taken by ASIO to change the threat assessment back at the time of the involvement in Iraq.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister, did your office urge Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty to issue a clarification over his remarks linking the Madrid bombings to Spain';s involvement in Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m not going to comment on that story.
JOURNALIST:
Why not?
PRIME MINISTER:
Because I am not commenting on it.
JOURNALIST:
You can';t say whether Mr Keelty';s statement on Tuesday was made after a request from your office?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t have any comment on those matters. He made a statement, the statement speaks for itself, and I really don';t have anything further to say.
JOURNALIST:
But isn';t it legitimate for Australians to know whether or not there is any pressure being applied from a political office on a law officer';s office?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I can assure you there has been no improper communications in relation to the role of the Police Commissioner. We totally respect his complete authority and independence in relation to confidential operational police matters.
JOURNALIST:
But if you don';t tell us whether or not that contact was made…
PRIME MINISTER:
But I am telling you there has been nothing improper.
JOURNALIST:
Now, Prime Minister, you';re in Adelaide and you';ve had a few days here. One of the dominant issues, one of the dominant local issues here, is power prices. Now you';ve got what, well there';s six marginal seats here. There are three or four depending on how you look at Liberal marginal seats in…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Adelaide is actually… we';ve got six marginal seats either side.
JOURNALIST:
Okay. If you wanted to hold those seats, if you were able as a Federal Government to do something about power prices in South Australia, you';d be on a winner wouldn';t you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Matt, whether that';s right or wrong, I can';t, because the last time I checked, power prices were really the responsibility of the State Government.
JOURNALIST:
Well they keep blaming the Federal Government. They say this is a national…
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah but Matt, haven';t we probably begun to reach the stage in this country where the federal system is not functioning anymore because whenever anything goes wrong at a state level, they say oh well, this is a national problem, we need more money, it';s all the fault of the Federal Government. But when they have a clear run at something, and this frankly applies whether it';s a Liberal or a Labor State Government, they say oh well the Federal Government should stay out of our affairs, don';t interfere in the rights of a sovereign state. Well they can';t have it both ways. You can';t have the rights of a sovereign state without accepting the responsibilities of a sovereign state. And it';s about time we confronted this issue in a more open fashion. I mean I don';t mind accepting responsibilities for things that are clearly mine. If something goes wrong with defence or security or things of that nature, the public is entitled to say – Howard, that';s your job, you';re to blame for that, you fix it. Equally if something goes wrong perhaps with ordinary law enforcement, people tend to say well that';s a matter for the states. You';ve got a whole lot of things in between where the states go in and out. They sort of sashay in and sashay out, so to speak, in relation to their responsibilities. Now, I think the public is getting a bit tired of this. What is the point of having a federal system if one component of the federation won';t meet its responsibilities?
JOURNALIST:
While the states are sashaying in and out though, South Australia is paying more for its power. And these national bodies, these federal bodies, which are involved such as the ACCC, the National Electricity Market NEMCO), these are bodies which cross borders, and South Australians, is it reasonable for them to look to a Federal Government and say well look can you come in, can you step in?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I understand the public wants a solution. They don';t quite care who delivers it. But when you don';t have the power – I mean legal-constitutional power as distinct from electric power – when you don';t have the power to do it, then it really is a question of saying well look fellas, you';re in charge of this and you ought to accept your responsibility. I mean I don';t mind, I';ll accept responsibility for things that are clearly in my domain, but I';m not going to wear a situation where if something goes wrong at a state level, people automatically say well look, we';d love to do it people but those dreadful fellows in Canberra won';t give us enough money.
JOURNALIST:
You';re listening to Matthew Abraham and David Bevan talking to Prime Minister John Howard. It';s 17 minutes to 9. Prime Minister, your Health Minister wants a debate in an election year on abortion. Your Deputy Leader Peter Costello doesn';t What do you want?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don';t know that Tony Abbott necessarily wants a debate on it. He expressed a view. This is a moral issue and it';s always been the custom of the Liberal Party not to have a party line. And in the time I';ve been in Parliament whenever this issue has been debated, people have voted in a non-Party fashion. There';s never been a Liberal line or a Labor line, it';s always been an individual line. Now Tony was expressing, as is his right, his strongly held personal view and I… I mean, the Government doesn';t have any plans to change the existing Medicare arrangements, we don';t have any plans to do so. But I certainly don';t contest Tony';s right to raise this issue, he feels strongly about it. Many people feel strongly about it on both sides. I don';t see it becoming a major issue because people do in this country, most of them respect the right of people to exercise their own conscience and express their own views and I certainly don';t think Tony has done anything wrong in expressing his view and he';s entitled to and he holds strong views on this and he';s…
JOURNALIST:
So you';re happy with him to raise it at a personal level, but you';d like it to be left there, you don';t want it to be…?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I';m saying that we don';t have any plans as a Government to alter existing arrangements, but Tony is perfectly entitled to raise the issue, perfectly entitled and I respect him for it.
JOURNALIST:
He is the Federal Health Minister. Is one of those issues of dog whistling where you send out sort of covert messages…?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I... well it certainly isn';t. I know Tony well and I know how strongly he feels about this issue and he has a right and he';s in a position to speak about it. I mean, I notice somebody this morning, maybe it was from the women';s electoral lobby, that he should withdraw the statement. Well, that';s a pretty Stalinist response.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister, John Howard. We';ll go to your calls in just a moment, it';s a quarter to nine. Prime Minister, another local issue – a family in Adelaide, the Bakhtyari children are being cared for in Adelaide by Centrecare, they';re in one house. Their mother in not very far away, she';s under effective guard in a motel with her baby. Their father';s in the Baxter Detention Centre. So, how are you able to allow that situation to continue? Do you feel uncomfortable…?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I wish it were otherwise, I with the processes were a little faster…
JOURNALIST:
You can….?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, not without compromising a policy that we';re not willing to compromise.
JOURNALIST:
But the policy may not be a good policy…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I…
JOURNALIST:
.. that you';ve allowed that to happen.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don';t agree with that. I think we';ve had this debate, I mean, I';m happy to keep debating it, but obviously, the fewer people there are in detention the more that it is satisfactory to us, the more we like it. I don';t like people being detained, but mandatory detention is part of the system.
JOURNALIST:
How do you as an individual reconcile that? I mean, I don';t know whether these things worry you. I would think they do.
PRIME MINISTER:
A lot of things worry me, Matt. I worry about a lot of people in refugee camps who are waiting to find a home to go to. There are millions of people in refugee camps. I believe very strong that an orderly settlement policy is the best policy and the more we can prevent illegal arrivals the greater is our capacity to provide places in Australia for people who';ve been waiting in refugee camps for years.
JOURNALIST:
I know, but when bureaucracy gets down to… when a policy gets down to the human level like this…
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, but I mean, I can equally say there are… I could talk about the plight of a family in a refugee camp…
JOURNALIST:
Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER:
And their plight is the product in part of the fact that places may have been taken by less deserving cases and less meritorious people. You can always reduce, on both sides of an argument like this, you can always reduce it to human terms.
JOURNALIST:
You probably need to, don';t you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, of course you do and so you should. And I think about it in those terms and that';s one of the reasons why I continue to adhere to the policy that we have.
JOURNALIST:
On 891, ABC Adelaide, ABC South Australia and Broken Hill, Matthew Abraham, David Bevan and Prime Minister John Howard in our studio. In a moment we';ll go to Geoff of Medindie.
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JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister, John Howard is with us and first cab off the rank this morning. Geoff of Medindie near Broken Hill. Geoff, good morning.
CALLER:
Good morning.
JOURNALIST:
You have the Prime Minister';s ear.
CALLER:
Right. Thanks very much. I want to put something to you Mr Prime Minister. Days like this, cotton farming doesn';t provide jobs it provides misery for every person living on the river, sometimes you can';t even use the water for your garden because it';s too salty and Broken Hill';s been buying drinking water for 18 months, recently 300,000 megalitres of water has been stored privately for cotton out of the Darling River Tasman. I have a licence myself at Medindie for six megalitres.
JOURNALIST:
Geoff, get to a question.
CALLER:
Yeah, and I can';t use this water. I want to know when are you going to hand back the Darling River to the Australian people so we can use it as a river and not a pipeline for cotton growers?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, cotton growing has a lot of benefits. I don';t accept that it';s all gloom and misery and it has provided a new industry and a revitalisation of quite a lot of communities in Western New South Wales and other parts of the country, having said that the Commonwealth Government and to date there';s been quite a lot of co-operation with the states on this. We are providing more resources to the Murray Darling commission. There was an agreement reached at the Premiers'; conference last year on this subject and it is proceeding. The water agreement that was reached at that conference, largely through the efforts of John Anderson, the Deputy Prime Minister involves the commitment, I think, of about $500 million additional dollars shared by the Commonwealth and the States to the commission to begin the process of water reform. It will take a long time and I acknowledge that there';s a lot to be done and I acknowledge that many people feel the way you do. Equally, though, there are people who have enjoyed water rights for a long time and to arbitrarily take those water rights away without compensation is not just.
JOURNALIST:
Thanks for your call, Geoff. Let';s go to Semaphore where Mike is waiting. Hello, Mike.
CALLER:
Yes, hello there. Yes, just a quick question, just want to say something, I want to draw your attention to recent changes to the fringe benefits arrangements which means a lot to the thousands of workers in the health disability sector in South Australia. I';m wondering whether Prime Minister would consider looking at this issue as a…
PRIME MINISTER:
Can you tell me what it is, I';m not aware of it off hand.
CALLER:
It';s the changes, I don';t want to be too technical, but it';s the changes that mean that the PBI status have been removed from a large number of…
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, the public benevolent institution status, yes.
CALLER:
I';m doing the exactly same job, remain our status and my question is would you look at that and consider reinstating the…
PRIME MINISTER:
This arises out of the redefinition of charities doesn';t it? The public benevolent institutions. I am broadly aware of this and you';re in a position where the change has meant that where you are classified differently and what, you pay more tax?
CALLER:
That';s correct.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let me look at that. If you leave your name and address with the station I';ll examine it, I';m not saying I can fix it but I';ll find out more about it. I was not conscious that these changes were going to result in people paying more tax, I thought they might result in some different categorisations to certain institutions, but I was not conscience that they were going to pay more tax.
JOURNALIST:
Particularly in health and disability.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, it shouldn';t happen, I mean people working in that sector, large numbers of people shouldn';t pay more tax, that';s not the intention. Can I have a look at that?
JOURNALIST:
Yes, and we';ve got Mike';s details, so thank you for calling Mike, an important issue. 8.29 on 891 ABC Adelaide and ABC South Australia and Broken Hill. Hi Mary.
CALLER:
Good morning, good morning Mr Howard. I';d just like to ask you, why does your Government describe the nuclear waste dump as being for low level waste when your government documentation shows the dump would take both low and intermediate level waste, including long lived intermediate waste?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can';t say that I';ve, I don';t quite know what document you';re referring to, it';s sometime since I';ve read a lot of documents that were before Cabinet on this. It';s a hard issue, but we did have a very exhaustive process and that exhaustive process located the site that we';ve chosen and we';re going through the normal processes of implementing that decision and it';s not, I mean nobody sort of so to speak, I mean everybody can find a reason why it shouldn';t be somewhere but the experts told us that the site identified was the most appropriate and therefore we';ve accepted their advice.
JOURNALIST:
But you don';t know if it';s intermediate waste that';s going there?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look I';m not going to just off the top of my head without knowing what document the lady';s referring to say yes or no to that.
JOURNALIST:
Martin of Clarendon, hello Martin.
CALLER:
Hello, look I';m concerned that the Government';s damaging some of the core values that we get from our Christian heritage, just two very quick examples, when the Prime Minister praised high house values I think he was putting greed before affordability…
PRIME MINISTER:
When I was what?
CALLER:
Putting greed before affordability.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, what…
JOURNALIST:
When you praised high housing prices or high value of housing. I think that';s what you said, is that right Mark?
CALLER:
Yeah, that';s right. The second example, I think that you really have promoted meanness and intolerance in our community in the quest for votes when before the last election you made those two infamous statements that had the affect of characterising refugees as vermin.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t recall calling refugees vermin, I mean I certainly don';t recall that and I have never done that, I don';t accept that criticism at all. In relation to housing, I haven';t praised house prices, what I';ve said is that people who own homes don';t complain about the value of their homes going up, and there is a difference, I';d be very happy if house prices stabilised because that would help people who are trying to break into the market for the first time. I';ve said that on many occasions and I repeat it now, I would be very happy to see house prices stabilise, but I';m making the observation that people who already own their own home do not complain to me about its value increasing because their equity goes up and the burden they might have, unless they borrow more, falls.
JOURNALIST:
It';s five to nine, we';re trying to get through as many calls as possible, now Jenny of, let me just backtrack there, Marilyn of Parafield, hello Marilyn.
CALLER:
Good morning.
JOURNALIST:
Good morning.
CALLER:
I would like to ask, why is your Government withdrawing the educational text book subsidy for uni students which means they have to pay eight per cent more for their text books and you have a huge budget surplus.
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m not aware of what you';re referring to, I';m sorry. You may have caught me without something that I should know but I';m not aware of what you';re referring to.
JOURNALIST:
Thank you Marilyn.
PRIME MINISTER:
I';ll check it out Marilyn, but I';m not aware of that.
JOURNALIST:
Okay, Jenny of Lockleys, hello Jenny.
CALLER:
Good morning Cameron, Mr Howard, as far as governments go it';s not your place as a government to tell me how to live my life, you don';t provide me important choice and recognition of diversity of families and society, but you use your religion to make judgements on gay people and therefore the rights that we have with regards to superannuation property entitlement, why not use your tolerance and understanding as a Christian to recognise our rights the same as you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t criticise gay people for that lifestyle, that';s their choice. What I do say, and I don';t apologise for saying, is that there are certain benchmark institutions in our society that ought to be defended and promoted and marriage is one of them and the reason I don';t support gay marriage is that I think it in different ways reduces the status of marriage as so commonly understood in our society, that is partly influenced by the Judeo-Christian tradition of our society, it';s also influenced by other things as well, it';s not only people of the Judeo-Christian tradition, which is obviously the dominant one in our country, who hold that view, others hold it as well, but there has to be a point at which you stand up for certain benchmark institutions. I don';t think that';s intolerant, I think it';s common sense because they contribute to the continuity and the stability of society.
JOURNALIST:
Do you regard a gay couple with a child, either adopted or via IVF, as a family?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it';s not a family in the more popular traditional sense, look I don';t want to condemn, see those questions are really designed, and I';m sure this wouldn';t be your motive, but those questions are designed to sort of to illicit a response that can then be typified oh he doesn';t like gay people. What I';m in favour of is defending the benchmark institutions of our society and marriage is one of them and I think we should always have a margin for marriage if I can put it that way.
JOURNALIST:
I wasn';t talking about marriage, I was talking about families.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look a brother and a sister living together are a family too, brothers living with brothers…
JOURNALIST:
I didn';t ask you about that.
PRIME MINISTER:
No I know you didn';t, look I';m not going to get into those word games.
JOURNALIST:
Okay, Jenny look thank you for that call and Prime Minister';s it';s two minutes to nine and we know you have to move on, you';re not the most relaxed I';ve seen you, I don';t know whether we haven';t unwound you in Adelaide or whatever, but I have something that will relax you, and I did this last night, these are South Australian peaches.
PRIME MINISTER:
Terrific.
JOURNALIST:
… my apricots, but we';re out of apricots but if you come back to us during apricot season I';ll give you some from my backyard, but these are good South Australian peaches, bottled inVacola, I hope you don';t mind me giving them to you.
JOURNALIST:
It';s not fruit for comment.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks, thank you, you';re very kind. They look lovely.
JOURNALIST:
And Janette will know how to open those, but just be careful flicking under the lid. And keep the jar, that jar dates back to 1950 so it';s a collectors'; item like me, and like you. Prime Minister John Howard, thank you for coming into our studio this morning and thank you for taking so many calls from our listeners on 891 ABC Adelaide, ABC South Australia and Broken Hill, it';s one minute to nine.
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