JONES:
Prime Minister good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Alan.
JONES:
Prime Minister, thank you for your time. I was just raising some questions with Aldo Borgu who as you know is an analyst on these matters with the Strategic Policy Institute and I raised this question with him about the allegation that we're under greater risk because we went to Iraq. Isn't it true to say that Australia was high on al-Qaeda's list, primarily because of what we did in East Timor, long before Iraq came along?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the first reference that was made to Australia being in the gun from al-Qaeda was because of what we did in East Timor and there was intelligence available suggesting that Australia was a possible terrorist target, even before the 11th of September 2001. So it remains the best view of the Government and certainly the view of ASIO and ASIO is the body and the Director General of ASIO is the person more than anybody else who makes risk assessments for the Government, it's very important in these areas to understand particular areas of expertise and it's the assessment of ASIO that al-Qaeda would not see Iraq as particularly relevant to its intent or its purposes, indeed the participation in Afghanistan which of course had bipartisan support in Australia more directly affected al-Qaeda because of the Taliban association.
JONES:
Yes and Osama bin Laden and Abu Bakar Bashir maintained that the territory of East Timor was Muslim territory and Australia going there was proof of Australia's aggressive intent towards Islam.
PRIME MINISTER:
There is no doubt that that was said, Alan it was my very strong view and the view of the majority of the experts in this area that we are a terrorist target because of who we are, rather than because of what we have done and we are a western society. But the other point that's got to be made is that so many other societies have been targeted, people seem to forget that over the last year there's been terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia, in Morocco, in Indonesia, in Turkey and in Spain. Now those countries took different positions on Iraq, yet they all suffered terrorist attacks and this idea that you can somehow or other by adjusting what you say as a country, adjusting the things you stand for or the things that you oppose that you will buy yourself immunity from a terrorist attack, I'm sorry to say that that is a completely false proposition.
JONES:
Yes, but of course now that overwhelmingly a government has virtually been changed, I mean until Madrid it was clear that the Government, the incumbent government was going to win, they had a majority in both houses, it's the first time in the history of Spanish politics that a government with a party with a majority in both houses has lost. Now that the terrorist organisations believe they can change a government they will be significantly emboldened won't they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well some of them will be yes, of course. But we've got to be also careful not to jump to too many conclusions about the Spanish election result, there was a lot of criticism apparently that the former government was too quick to blame ETA, the basque separatist terrorist organisation, and was therefore seen to be concealing information for political purposes from the Spanish public. Now I don't know whether that had an impact or not, but I do think we have to be careful not to jump to too many conclusions.
JONES:
PM, in the light of all that, I'm just wondering should we have, and there have been suggestions to this effect, should we have a Minister here solely for home security in the light of the increased, the changing circumstances , someone whose bureaucracy and everything else is dedicated solely to that issue?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think that's necessary, I mean it sounds an appealing bureaucratic solution but it's not really. Effectively so much of the intelligence gathering and police responses are now gathered under the Attorney General's umbrella and I think taking that away from the Attorney General would be a mistake, I believe that the current arrangements work extremely well and one of the strengths of our system is that our National Security Committee of Cabinet which includes the five most senior people in the Government meets on a very regular basis and deals in an integrated way with both security and defence matters and those two things are related. The answer Alan to the terrorist threat is superior intelligence.
JONES:
Do we spend enough on our intelligence?
PRIME MINISTER:
You can always spend more and we are willing to spend more and are in the process of spending more and...
JONES:
Is language training an issue here? I mean do we need an intelligence entity competent to translate immediately foreign languages to know what people are saying?
PRIME MINISTER:
We have a significant capacity to do that but I've made it very clear as recently as last week and indeed in advance, a day or two in advance of what happened in Madrid, I made it very clear to the Expenditure Review Committee of Cabinet that absolute priority had to be given to the intelligence gathering agencies and additional requests that they made for resources have been granted so there can be no argument that as recently as last week we were dealing with those issues...
JONES:
But the reality is isn't it that America spends $30 billion on intelligence and it didn't stop September 11.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is the reality, I mean we are a free society, we can't have policemen walking beside every citizen in our country, you cannot have guards on every bus and every train, I mean that is unrealistic and we might as well face that. But what we can have is superior intelligence gathering organisations and we can take comfort in the fact, relative comfort though it is, we can take comfort in the fact that unlike other countries we do not have organised terrorist cells operating in Australia and we must remember that were organised terrorist cells operating in Spain, al-Qaeda has had a presence in Spain for some years, so therefore it's important that we keep these things in perspective.
JONES:
Just finally, what quick thing do you say to Australians today as they go about their business, they read the headlines, they are genuinely worried, what do you say to them?
PRIME MINISTER:
I say to them that this is still by world standards a very safe country, but I'm sad to report as Prime Minister that because of changed circumstances nobody can assume that this country is immune from attack, I wish I could say otherwise and it's heartbreaking as an Australian to have to say that I can't give that guarantee but that is the reality of the world in which we live, the Government is doing its best, superior intelligence is more valuable than anything else, we respect the fact that this remains a free country but we've got to take precautions to protect ourselves.
JONES:
Thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]