MERNAHAN:
Good morning to you Prime Minister. Can we start with talking about this memorial in Hyde Park. Is it a long overdue tribute to all the Australians who gave their lives during those two campaigns, over 60 years, nearly 60 years since the end of the second World War.
PRIME MINISTER:
I guess it is, but that doesn't diminish the value of the gesture. It's a beautiful memorial. It's in a very central location. It will become the focal point for Anzac Day services in London from next year onwards and we are all very pleased at the way it has come out and it is a fitting reminder of the enormous sacrifice that Australians made in defence of Britain in both World War I and World War II.
MERNAHAN:
Just give us a reminder of the scale of that sacrifice from your country.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well in 1914-18 Australia had a total population of a little over four million, and yet 416,000 volunteers enlisted and more than 60,000 of them were killed. To lose 60,000 young men out of a male population of a little over two million was a staggering loss. It's the equivalent of us losing about 300,000 of our total population. Sixty-five per cent of the first AIF were casualties, and they were all volunteers. And in the second war the major contribution made in the defence of Britain was of course through the Royal Australian Airforce, both in the battle for Britain, there were a number of Australians numbered amongst the few, and later in the bombing raids over Europe our squadrons, along with the Royal Airforce squadrons, paid an incredibly heavy price and the casualty rates of those bomber squadrons were the highest of all amongst Australian armed forces in World War II.
MERNAHAN:
And of course still a major ally of the United Kingdom and the United States in the Iraqi campaign. Now you took a lot of criticism at home for your stance in that campaign, as did Mr Blair here. The word poodle featured in the criticism of you, as it did of Mr Blair - yankee poodle Johnny some of the people were calling you there. Do you still think it was worth it in terms of the political costs and of course the human costs?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think there was... you talk about a human cost. The alternative to what we did was to leave Saddam Hussein in control. I'm surprised people suggest that on the balance of the ledger, the human cost of going into Iraq was greater than the human dividend. If Saddam Hussein had remained in power, the mass murdering would have continued, the mass graves would have multiplied. I don't resile for a moment from what we did. It was the right thing to do. The intelligence available to me, as it was to Mr Blair and President Bush, justified the decision we took, and I know there is criticism of that and there is dissent. That's natural in a democracy.
MERNAHAN:
Well I wanted to ask you about the quality of that intelligence. How is it that across the globe, all the intelligence agencies seemed to come up with the same conclusion, which up to this point doesn't seem to have been the correct conclusion, that Saddam was a huge threat to the world?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it's too early to make a judgement, final judgement. The Iraq Survey Group is still carrying out its work. But we had intelligence available to us, and that intelligence was both credible, it was strong intelligence and it was utterly consistent with and supportive of the decision we took. I think Tony Blair made a good point the other day when he rhetorically asked the question - where might have he have been if he had ignored that intelligence and something tragic had occurred? He would naturally have been on the rack for having ignored the compelling effect of that intelligence. Intelligence is never perfect proof. You can never say that intelligence proves beyond a reasonable doubt that a particular threat exists, because if you wait for proof beyond a reasonable doubt, you essentially have a Pearl Harbour situation where you can have an attack without warning.
MERNAHAN:
Okay, a couple of other issues to touch on with you Mr Howard. The Royals at the moment, there is a smear and innuendo flying around coinciding with your trip over here. You must be seeing some of those papers. How does that affect things back in Australia, where of course you were a major supporter of the Royals during the campaign to establish a Republic?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Dermott the allegations of which you speak, those sort of allegations have been made from time immemorial. I know nothing more about them than you do and all I can observe is that many allegations like that have been made in the past. They have been denied and in the fullness of time they have disappeared. We decided to reject a Republic four years ago because we believed the current system of government worked very well. Nobody doubts the full independence of Australia. I think it's fair to say that the Queen herself remains a respected figure in our country, even from people who don't agree with having her as the legal head of state.
MERNAHAN:
Quick question on the Rugby World Cup. Of course you're the hosts, the outsiders now. And it could be England against Australia in the final. Can you still do it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I hope so. New Zealand on form is a very tough team. I think it has to be said on form, the French have done quite well. Indeed this coming weekend, and I'm pleased to say I'll be back in Australia to see the semi-final between Australia and New Zealand, this coming weekend of course will be a moment of truth for the Wallabies, as indeed it will be for England against France. On form, New Zealand is a very hard team to beat but we'll be playing at home, we'll be playing against the background of 80,000 cheering Australians at the Olympic Stadium, and we are capable in those circumstances of rising to the occasion.
MERNAHAN:
And of course, England beat you last time they played. But we'll leave it at that. [inaudible] Trying to get the last word in there Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Couldn't resist it, could you?
MERNAHAN:
Prime Minister, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
[ends]