MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, Neil.
MITCHELL:
You've told me there's no crisis in hospitals, can you tell that to a family whose child has had their cancer treatment cancelled?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Neil, there is obviously a big problem according to the information you've outlined in this particular hospital in Melbourne and I'm concerned about that, but I do have to point out that I don't and my Government doesn't run the state hospital system. I'm not saying that it isn't an issue I shouldn't talk about, but we do have a Federation in this country and unless we're going to abolish the states altogether and have a situation where everything is run by the Federal Government there has to point at which state governments are made accountable when difficult issues arise.
MITCHELL:
There is another hospital, Prime Minister, the Alfred that has to borrow cash to pay staff?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, but can I say again, Neil, I'm not disputing the accuracy of what you are saying, I'm not doing that, I am just pointing out that I can't answer for the administration of the Royal Melbourne Children's Hospital. I have no control over it.
MITCHELL:
But you can answer to the funding?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I can and I will say in relation to the funding that the states get all of the GST revenue, every last cent and under the new hospital funding agreement they will get 17% more after inflation.
MITCHELL:
Will you look at giving them more? This is not just Victoria, every state is now faced with cases like this?
PRIME MINISTER:
I would like a situation where Ministers and Premiers and Prime Ministers are made accountable for the things they control. I do not control the public hospital system of this nation. The Federal Government contributes more money to the operation of a public hospital system it does not control than do the States. States want it both ways, they want to run the hospitals but whenever anything goes wrong they want to manage the problem up into the lap of the Prime Minister. Now, we have a Federation. The States like to assert their independence when it comes to throwing their weight around but when it comes to responsibility, they say we'd love to fix it if only Howard would give us more money. Well, Howard has given them more money.
MITCHELL:
Well they deny that, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, but can I tell you, Neil, the independent body, the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare established by a former Federal Labor Government has said for the first four years of the last hospital agreement the amount contributed by the Commonwealth exceeded the amount contributed by the states. Even though, we had no say in the running of them. Now, how would you like to be blamed for something that you contributed money to but you had no control over the operation of?
MITCHELL:
So, Prime Minister, is every state incompetent because every state has these problems, every state?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not saying every state is incompetent, what I'm saying is that the people who run the hospitals must be made accountable for the day to day administration of them and it's just not good enough in a Federal system of Government where the states go to demented lengths to protect their Constitutional positions, that whenever there's a problem what the state minister says, 'oh well we could fix it if only the Federal Government would give us more money'. We gave them a guaranteed source of revenue with the GST for the first time since Federation, we said to the states here is a growth tax, as it grows as it will in the years ahead you will get all of the growth and on top of that we give them growth in the specific health agreement we have and what do they do? Whenever there's a problem they say, oh well it's the fault of the Federal Government, it won't give us more money.
MITCHELL:
Okay. Well whose fault is it that kids are being turned away from cancer treatment and surgery and are waiting on trolleys? Whose fault is it that children in this town are suffering when they need not suffer?
PRIME MINISTER:
These things are happening because of the administration of the health system in Victoria.
MITCHELL:
So it's the Bracks Government's fault?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, who runs the hospital?
MITCHELL:
Who provides the money?
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean if something goes wrong at 3AW you don't blame the ABC do you?
MITCHELL:
I think that's an unsatisfactory comparison because you provide the money and you as Prime Minister can not divorce yourself from the fact that children in this town are suffering?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not trying to divorce myself from it but I am entitled to point out that I have no control over the administration of the Royal Melbourne Childrens' Hospital.
MITCHELL:
Well, you do?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't control the administration of it, it's controlled by the State Government through a local hospital administration. We give the money, that money that we give, we don't hand it to the hospitals, we hand it to the state governments.
MITCHELL:
OK, well how do we fix it? We've got this situation. You've got a new Health Minister, will you at least ask him to get on the phone to sit with Bronwyn Pike (inaudible) and we can sort it out for the sake of the kids?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the first thing that the new Health Minister is doing is having a meeting in about 20 minutes with doctors to talk about the medical indemnity crisis. Now he's trying to address that and that goes very directly to the services that are available in the public hospital system of this country. And we have a problem with medical indemnity because over the years the negligence laws of this country resulted in huge verdicts being awarded in relation to medical negligence. Now, I have to point to you that the State Governments control the medical negligence laws of this country, we don't. We have no constitutional power to alter the negligence laws of Australia.
MITCHELL:
Well, I'm glad to see the Health Minister's involving himself in that even though that is a state issue?
PRIME MINISTER:
No the reason he's involving himself is that he has and we have a responsibility and an involvement in this because we have brought down a levy which was supported by the Labor Opposition in Federal Parliament to fund the future liabilities of the now defunct United Medical fund which was a poorly administered medical defence organisation. We have a situation here where we are picking up a large amount of the bill even though the cause of the problem is firstly, the poor administration of that medical defence organisation and secondly, the fact that the states of Australia over long years allowed the negligence laws to become too generous and therefore resulted in verdicts being awarded.
MITCHELL:
We have a problem in hospitals, what will you as Prime Minister do about that?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have already through the hospitals agreement provided for a major increase in funding and there has to be some point at which the states are made accountable for all the money they get.
MITCHELL:
So is that it? With the States there's nothing else you can do?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Neil, there are other things I can do. I can maintain private health insurance which I've pledged to do which is taking the load off the public hospital system. Over the last four years the State's have cut several thousand beds out of the public hospitals during the same period of time there have been 3,000 additional beds come available in the private hospital system and that is a direct result of us having funded private health insurance.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, it is not working and I think the people of Victoria will turn to the people they've elected like you, like Steve Bracks and say for God's sake can't we put politics aside and pull together and sort this out?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course you can put politics aside but you can only put politics aside if each level of government accepts responsibility for those things which under our system of government they have responsibility for.
MITCHELL:
Can we do that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes that means the Victorian Government accepting responsibility for the administration of the public hospital system in the state of Victoria. It does not mean Steve Bracks just washing his hands of it, saying well look, I can't do anything and that is the whole thrust of so much of what is argued on this issue, I can't do anything because the Federal Government doesn't give me enough money despite the fact that we have increased their money and despite the fact that they get all the revenue from the GST. I accept responsibility in two areas, I accept responsibility to sustain private health insurance which takes the load off public hospitals and I accept the responsibility in relation to properly funding Medicare and I also accept responsibility to give a proper amount of money to the states to fund their public hospitals, but I am not going to have a situation where every time the state fails to meet its responsibilities to the people of either Victoria or Queensland or New South Wales. They escape any kind of liability by simply saying, well this a problem because the Federal Government hasn't given us enough. We've increased their money by 17% in real terms where we give them every last dollar of the GST revenue.
MITCHELL:
What is the point, Prime Minister, in having a $7.5billion surplus if we can't care for our kids?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Neil, the $7.5billion surplus was of course last year and, of course, the most important thing is the welfare of people, the welfare of children, of course the most important thing is the standard of living that average families have and I have never argued that balancing the books should become some kind of demented obsession - I have never argued that at all. But of course to the extent that you run a good economic policy you keep interest rates down and you make it possible therefore for people to afford to pay off their houses and therefore that takes some of the strain off the cost of raising their families. So don't completely divorce efficient economic policy and balancing the budget from the benefits that that can in the long run deliver to people.
[commercial break]
MITCHELL:
13 to nine, the Prime Minister in our Brisbane studio, we have a board full of calls, please be patient, we obviously won't get to everybody but we will be talking about this right through the day. Gary, go ahead, speak to the Prime Minister.
CALLER:
Good morning Mr Howard. Look I would gladly give my tax cut back if you'd promise to give that surplus to the hospital.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are some people who hold that view, others don't and in the end we have to make a decision as to whether the amount of money that's been provided for the different things we have responsibility is adequate and whether what is left over should go back in tax cuts. I can assure you we won't allow it to store up and be put to no good purpose, once you have a strong budget position as we do and once you've paid off most of the nation's debt as we have there's no justification for keeping the money in the bank, we must either spend it on something extra or give it back in tax cuts, or perhaps some combination of the two, you don't have to choose between spending all of a surplus or giving it all back in tax cuts, you can of course choose to do both.
MITCHELL:
Is it unequivocal for there to be no increase in hospital funding this year, this next year?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we think the arrangement that we've made is quite reasonable.
MITCHELL:
So there will be no more?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we've just signed an agreement Neil.
MITCHELL:
So there won't be, under duress from the states, but will there be no more?
PRIME MINISTER:
You say under duress from us, I mean they walked out, I mean fair go. I mean you were talking earlier the need for people to get together, they walked out.
MITCHELL:
Of course.
PRIME MINISTER:
It was just a childish, to put on some football jerseys so they could do a photo shoot for their campaign in relation to the AFL finals, it was a juvenile stunt.
MITCHELL:
Is there no, absolutely no chance of further funding for hospitals?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we think the amount we've provided is very very reasonable, I mean it's a 17 per cent increase which is a very big increase and of course the states get all of the GST revenue and on top of that we have promised to maintain the private health insurance rebate that takes the strain off the public hospitals. The Labor Party, at a federal level, and some of them at a state level, want to reduce or even get rid of entirely the private health insurance rebate and that will throw additional strain back on to the public hospital system. You help the public hospitals not only by giving directly money to the states but also by funding private health insurance you are funding the growth in the capacity for private hospitals.
MITCHELL:
Well whatever you're doing between you is not working. Is it right the Treasury has warned you not to increase spending?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I read that speech and I didn't read it that way. But in any event I can assure the Treasury, if it were doing that, and I can assure you, that we're not going to embark upon some kind of irresponsible spending binge, we never have, the Labor Party criticises us for having done such outrageous things as reduce petrol excise a couple of years ago and spend more money on roads and spend more money on defence, we don't make any apologies for having done that because they are very necessary things for not only for the security of this country but also its infrastructure.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, something else, is it correct that you're going to recall Parliament when the US President is here?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm looking at the present time at some of the details, final details, of his programme and when I'm in a position to announce exactly what's going to happen I will do so, I hope to be able to do that in the next day or so.
MITCHELL:
So that is an option is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Obviously yes.
MITCHELL:
Okay we'll take another call, John go ahead please John.
CALLER:
G'day Neil, how you going?
MITCHELL:
Okay.
CALLER:
Listen, I just wanted to ask the Prime Minister, I'm an emergency physician in a larger Melbourne public hospital, and I just wanted to ask the Prime Minister is my understanding is the funding for nursing home beds is a federal issue.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes it is.
CALLER:
Is that correct?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is, yes.
CALLER:
And a lot of the reasons we have bed block and access problems in the, from the emergency department is because we have patients waiting in wards to go to nursing homes.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Sir, John is it?
CALLER:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
That is not what a spokesman for your group of medical practitioners has said, what he has said, and I think the association is the emergency specialists or the emergency doctors association, there's some generic that describes you, what he has said is that it's the absence of hospital or the cut in the number of hospital beds which has created the greatest problem, not what you have just identified.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, when does the GST payments to the states kick in?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it kicks in now, it's...
MITCHELL:
They say they don't get the benefit from it til 2008 and they're getting less...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, hang on, they're not getting less, under the arrangement they get all of the money and in those states where what they get from the GST did not match what they were getting under the old funding arrangement we make up the difference. Now in some states, like Queensland, and in some of the territories they are already ahead of the old arrangement and all of the states will be ahead of the old arrangement by either 2006 or 2007.
MITCHELL:
Another frustrating thing we've talked about before, bank fees, some of them have gone up 262 per cent in eight year. 262 per cent according to the Reserve Bank. Mark Latham has attacked the head of the Commonwealth Bank, says he's not worth his salary of $2.5 million. Is there anything you can do?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't control the salaries, I don't frankly want to. Well I think the only thing, the best thing to keep fees down of course is to have as much competition as you can in the banking system, I'm not happy at the way the banks have increased their fees but of course they have because of the economic conditions of the country, they are charging vastly lower interest rates and I certainly hope that that continues.
MITCHELL:
Okay, I've just got a message through, apparently in the United States journalists have been told that the President will be addressing the Australian Parliament on the 23rd of October, is there something the White House knows that you don't.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that may be the case, but I'm not in a position to say anything at the moment.
MITCHELL:
That's what's being said in the United States.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well a lot of things are said in the United States that I don't have control over.
MITCHELL:
Okay. Is it wrong?
PRIME MINISTER:
When I'm in a position to formally say something I will.
MITCHELL:
Okay. Wilson Tuckey says you shouldn't bring this, he's just causing you trouble, you just got rid of him, shouldn't bring the sheep back to Australia, it's too dangerous, from the Cormo Express, what's your reaction to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of the alternatives that are available, bringing them back is better than slaughtering them at sea, if we can't find another destination. I don't agree with him on that, it is just quite impractical and horrendously difficult to slaughter them at sea, you'd have to reconstruct the ship and that of course will be self-evidently very very difficult and I think the only realistic alternative is to bring them back.
MITCHELL:
Bali, another bomber sentenced to death, your reaction to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm happy that he's been dealt with and I raise no objection to the death penalty.
MITCHELL:
We'll take another quick call, Ronnie go ahead please Ronnie.
CALLER:
Hi Neil, I'm just commenting first hand on my recent experiences with my father who's elderly. He was sent by ambulance to hospital and when he arrived he was wheeled back into the waiting room to wait, waited several hours, was discharged the following morning and then got recalled the next day, because of the result of tests that were done and had to be then admitted, needed intravenous antibiotics and never ended up getting administered because they weren't available in the hospital and I think John Howard isn't aware that it's this us and them attitude that's causing the problem to do with, there's not a quick fix, it's going to be a co-ordinated effort between the nursing homes and the beds and the GPs, the bulk billing, and insurance because I don't think that's impacted as badly as it will have in the next few months.
MITCHELL:
Okay, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I accept the need to have co-operation between the Commonwealth and the states, we endeavoured to have a more detailed discussion about health and the Premiers walked out on us.
MITCHELL:
So is there any hope of getting that discussion now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I mean we offered a review, we offered to review and they just walked out.
MITCHELL:
Will you try again?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Neil I'm always ready to talk but the idea that when the states get a difficult problem they just throw it up to us and say that we can't do anything, it's not our responsibility, the Federal Government won't give us any more money. I mean we're not going to be, have a situation where the States have power and authority yet no responsibility.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, this is a strange one, I was reading about it the other day, Richard Butler, who's going to be Governor of Tasmania, and I was going through some files, in fact not long before he was declared to be Governor of Tasmania was demanding your resignation, how do you feel about working with him as Governor of Tasmania?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't have to work with him as Governor of Tasmania.
MITCHELL:
You'll probably bump into him occasionally.
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't, there's been an appointment made, I mean I refrain from making any comment when Mr Butler was appointed Governor, I think that says something doesn't it?
MITCHELL:
What does it say?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't have any comment on his appointment.
MITCHELL:
I think that is eloquent. You're still going to Bali presumably?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am indeed, very much so.
MITCHELL:
Okay.
PRIME MINISTER:
My wife and I are both going next weekend.
MITCHELL:
How important is this to Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it's very important, I think it's most important of course to the relatives of people who died. As a national commemoration it will have a big impact on the country and I think it's very important that it take place in Bali, and very important that it be a ceremony which is conducted according to the custom and tradition of Australia but does respect the religious sensitivities and cultural presence of the Balinese people and the Indonesian people.
MITCHELL:
Well we're taking the programme there, I hope we can speak to you there as well.
PRIME MINISTER:
I would like to do so.
MITCHELL:
Just one other question, I heard a report the other day that you would like a knighthood. Is that right?
PRIME MINISTER:
No.
MITCHELL:
Don't want one?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don't. Traditionalist though I am I think this country has moved beyond having knighthoods, I have no objection to people who have them and it's a great system in the past but I think we've moved on from them.
MITCHELL:
Tell you what, if somebody fixes the hospital system we'll make them king.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well just being a good Australia's enough for me.
MITCHELL:
Thank you very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]