PRICE:
Prime Minister John Howard joins us. Thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
How are you Steve?
PRICE:
I'm good thank you. You'll hate me reminding you of this - apparently you paid 84 pounds in 1957, plus a scholarship, for your law degree.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's right. To be more accurate, my widowed mother, she paid the 84 pound. In those days, you raised it, you paid fees unless you got a Commonwealth scholarship. And what happened to me was that I didn't pick up a Commonwealth scholarship when I left school, but I did well enough in my first year at university to pick up a Commonwealth scholarship for the remaining three years, that somebody had dropped. Now that just paid the fees.
PRICE:
So what would that sort of work out in today's dollars? Any idea?
PRIME MINISTER:
Quite a lot. I mean 84 pounds in 1957, you're looking at I guess several thousand, aren't you?
PRICE:
I guess so.
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean, you're looking at quite a bit. Look, somebody who is listening to this program will go away and do the sums and in half an hour it will be plonked on my desk. But we did have a system in those days where you had to pay full fees unless you got a Commonwealth scholarship. But we had a very extensive Commonwealth scholarship system introduced by the Federal Government and it worked pretty well. And then we had the unreal Whitlam era where he came along and said look, you can have everything for nothing.
PRICE:
Your Treasurer benefited greatly from it. He paid nothing for his degree.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's... I mean, in fact most people under the age of about 50, 55 would fall into that category until the more recent generation. I mean, my own children who two have gone and finished university and one is completing, I mean they've been in the HECS era where they've had to pay their HECS and they've worked part-time, as most of their friends have, and earned money for that part-time work to make a contribution. You've got to remember that an enormous number of kids who go to university now, they have part-time jobs, as I did when I worked at a department store for a few hours on Friday and on Saturday morning.
PRICE:
I thought you worked in a petrol station.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that was even earlier, but I wasn't paid there because I was working in the family service station.
PRICE:
I raise this for obvious reasons. You paid, Peter Costello didn't, and I just spoke to Lachlan Harris - a 23 year old Sydney boy who you would encourage. He's in the University of New South Wales, his last year of law. He's going to walk out with a $25,000 HECS debt.
PRIME MINISTER:
But he's got the potential to earn a lot more money.
PRICE:
But his argument to you is, if we're going to spend money in this country, why not spend more of it on education and get a better educated population instead of trying to make it hard for these kids, because he believes that you will end up, after your changes in the Budget, with many families, only those who are wealthy, able to afford to send their kids through university in degrees like law and medicine.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't agree with that for a number of reasons. The first reason is that 70 per cent of Australian boys and girls who leave school do not go directly to university.
PRICE:
That's not something you should be proud of though, is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well no, no, but I think it's something that you and people who argue that we should be putting even more money into universities, should be aware of. The point I'm making is that people who don't go to university, people who go into trades, people who for whatever reason don't seek university qualifications, their taxes fund the education of people who do go to university, and they don't get the return out of that higher education that the people who do go to university receive.
PRICE:
But you probably wouldn't be Prime Minister is you hadn't gone to university.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I'm not arguing against people going to university. I'm not arguing against Governments supporting it. I'm arguing for an understanding that people who go to university are not the only young people on the block, that there are an enormous number of people who don't want to go to university, who are not suited to go to university, that they also have the right to a decent career and they have a right to earn a living in a society and raise a family, where their taxes are no higher than they need be. I mean, what we're trying to do with this university thing is to strike a balance. And even after all of the changes we're talking about, the great bulk of the cost of educating people who are not full fee paying students will come from the taxpayer. So it's not as if the State is withdrawing altogether. What we're saying is we'll give more flexibility, we'll allow more full fee paying places, and we'll also provide an opportunity and a climate for the universities to compete more effectively and to become even more world class institutions.
PRICE:
Talking about tax, the tax cuts last night were being criticised this morning for how small they are. They are at least a tax cut. But is it a little bit embarrassing to be arguing that it's a good thing to have a $4 tax cut?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it's a good thing for a Government that has the economy in good shape, has repaid most of our debt, has a comfortable but not an excessive surplus, to give the rest back to the people who own it.
PRICE:
But $4.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, but Steve it's easy to sneer at it.
PRICE:
I'm not sneering.
PRIME MINISTER:
If we'd have kept it, we'd have had a surplus of $4.4 billion or $4.6 billion instead of the 2. You quite rightly would have said, what do you need a surplus of that size? Why don't you give it back to us? We own it. And that's right.
PRICE:
You didn't sit down and argue at any point, did you, that look can we use not this surplus in a better way, spend it here, rather than give it back as a $4 tax cut? Is there not an argument...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think... I am a person who believes that when you have covered necessary spending, and provided you have balanced your budget, you ought to give the rest back in tax relief. That's my philosophy. I think people are better able to decide how they spend their money than I am. I mean, I don't think the Prime Minister and the Treasurer of a country are better able to tell you how to spend your money. We do have a responsibility as the elected representatives of the people, to raise a certain amount of tax to spend on necessities such as defence and health and education and security and all of those things. But once you've done that and once you've balanced the books and paid off your debts and secured the future, you ought to give the rest back.
PRICE:
They're not a diversion to take away from the criticism that is going to come over the Medicare changes?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. I'm very happy...
PRICE:
You sound weary of this debate already.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I'm very happy to talk about the Medicare... the Medicare changes are an enhancement of Medicare.
PRICE:
Not if doctors start charging more, they're not.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, but there is no reason why that should occur. In fact, in many cases if they sign up there is less reason because they're getting more money from the Government to bulk bill a certain section of the population.
PRICE:
You are going to say I'm sure today that this is not a pre-election budget? Is it right to not suggest that this might be a budget that you can take to an election later this year - an early election?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's not a pre-election budget. There is no reason why this Parliament should not run its full term or very close to its full term. No reason at all.
PRICE:
You'd prefer it did?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I would. Three years is very short. I wish we had four years. But three years is very short. We're halfway through this term already. We were halfway through on the 10th of May. It goes very quickly.
PRICE:
You are going to welcome back some of servicemen and women tomorrow.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am.
PRICE:
I think that's from Katherine?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm going to Tindal. The Hornets are coming in tomorrow. And then on the weekend we will welcome back HMAS Anzac and HMAS Darwin, and then on the Sunday we'll welcome back the Special Air Service people. And then next week there will be further welcome homes in various parts of the country.
PRICE:
Have you given any thought yet to a campaign medal?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is being considered, yes.
PRICE:
I'd like to talk to you another time about that. Thank you for your time. I'm sure you'll be busy during the day.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay, thanks Steve.
[ends]