MARTIN:
The PM joins us live now from Canberra. Prime Minister, thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hello, Ray.
MARTIN:
Was that a good call? Do you think it was your biggest political mistake in the last seven years?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, mistakes and regrets are always in hindsight and are in retrospect. At the time I, of course, knew nothing about the things that subsequently emerged. He was a very impressive, servant of the underprivileged, he had a very good reputation. I'd known him for a long time and there was no suggestion to me, amongst the people I spoke to - admittedly it was a limited group - of anything of this kind. And it still has to be said in his defence, and although he made a big mistake, as it ultimately emerged in his earlier job, he's a person who's devoted his life to helping the underprivileged of Australia...
MARTIN:
Yep, no question.
PRIME MINISTER:
And I don't think that should ever be forgotten.
MARTIN:
No question.
PRIME MINISTER:
And I think there's a tendency for that to be forgotten.
MARTIN:
You said today that Dr Hollingworth was not vetted for the job, you just repeated that. Wasn't there even a security check? I mean, we get security checks for everything these days.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Dr Hollingworth was a very well-known public figure and I'm quite certain that if there had have been a security problem in relation to him, that would have emerged immediately after the announcement and before his appointment. And the fact that it didn't, indicated that there wasn't a security issue.
MARTIN:
But the Governor General is privy to to very sensitive information, he's privy to briefing...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I know that.
MARTIN:
... government papers, he's chairman of the executive council.
PRIME MINISTER:
But you appoint... yes... but hang on - once he was appointed to the job, he went through security procedures, once he's appointed to the job, they...
MARTIN:
Well, why wait Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you don't have a security check run when you announce somebody's going to be a Cabinet Minister. If something emerges, then that person's got a problem.
MARTIN:
But if you go through...
PRIME MINISTER:
You check...
MARTIN:
If you go through an airport these days, you've got to take your shoes off. Wouldn't you check the bloke who's going to be the boss of the Armed Forces?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, when the person has... I mean, he's got to go through all sorts of security checks if he travels commercially - so do I, Ray - if I travel commercial...
MARTIN:
No, I meant for the job, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
...I don't do it very often, I insist on it. Well, I didn't go through a security check before I became a minister way back in the 1970s...
MARTIN:
So you could be a Russian spy, could you?
PRIME MINISTER:
When I... well, I doubt it, I doubt it. I'll trust my luck on that.
MARTIN:
Okay.
PRIME MINISTER:
But when I became a minister and I had access to certain information, I had to go through certain security procedures.
MARTIN:
All right. Today in pleading for a fair go for Dr Hollingworth - which I agree with - you said attitudes towards child abuse have changed in the last ten years. I don't think they have.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, no. The attitudes to the child abuse has not changed.
MARTIN:
Right, what's changed?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's always been, I think, the way in which people in authority respond to it. There was a culture, a wrong culture mind you, but there was nonetheless a culture in the past, where people were, for example in churches, moved around. And it's not only in churches where this occurred. I think it's important to keep that in mind.
MARTIN:
But it's always been repugnant.
PRIME MINISTER:
... child abuse.
MARTIN:
We haven't changed that [inaudible] repugnant.
PRIME MINISTER:
And it's always been... but I haven't said that it was at one stage non-repugnant. What I said was the way in which people handled it when they were in positions of authority has changed - that's the point I was making.
MARTIN:
You spoke to him for an hour...
PRIME MINISTER:
There's no suggestion...
MARTIN:
No.
PRIME MINISTER:
There's no suggestion that I ever regarded child abuse...
MARTIN:
And I'm not suggesting that at all.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, than anything other than absolutely repugnant. I...
MARTIN:
Did he apologise to you personally today? Did he apologise personally? You chose him, he embarrassed you, obviously?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Ray, it was a very personal discussion, I'd rather not go into the details of it. He is obviously dispirited by what has occurred; he obviously feels that it's all across; it's gone very bad; he accepts that he had to go. I think it's fair to say that he made a judgement that he couldn't continue to command the support of the Australian people in the role and that if he continued, then that would damage the office. I think he put the office ahead of himself.
MARTIN:
Right.
PRIME MINISTER:
But I... you know, it's happened and I think we know have to move on...
MARTIN:
All right, let's talk...
PRIME MINISTER:
I think we have to move on...
MARTIN:
Let's talk about that, Prime Minister. Here's your big chance - you can tell us here tonight, you've got a forum, there you go. Who's the replacement?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven't decided yet.
MARTIN:
Have you got a short list?
PRIME MINISTER:
I really haven't. Well, I've thought of a number of people and I've had a preliminary discussion with some of my senior colleagues.
MARTIN:
After all these years, will a woman get an equal opportunity at last?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm not going to talk in gender. You always appoint a suitable person.
MARTIN:
How do you get along with Tim Fischer these days?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, I get on very well with Tim, but I also get on very well with a lot of other people who I better not name because they will go on your list.
MARTIN:
All right. Now, just the last question, quickly - will it be a quick decision or will you wait till your next birthday before you make a decision.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, it'd be fairly... my next birthday?
MARTIN:
Yeah, because a lot's hinging on your next birthday.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no. I hope to see the Bledisloe Cup that night, that's... an Australian victory's hinging. Now, it'll be fairly quick decision, it's not something that...
MARTIN:
A matter of days?
PRIME MINISTER:
... Sir Guy Green will continue.
MARTIN:
Days or weeks, PM?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, no days is... you're looking at a number of weeks but not too many.
MARTIN:
All right. We thank you. Thanks for your time, very much.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks, Ray.
[ends]