SBS World News
HOST: Prime Minister, when you talk about issues surrounding 457 visas and you use language like ‘foreigners taking Aussie jobs', aren't you yourself guilty of the sort of dog whistle politics that you've accused your political opponents of?
PM: Certainly not. I'm just making a very simple point, which is jobs in Australia are there to be filled by Australia.
The purpose of 457 visas is if we have short-term temporary labour shortages, that is skill shortages, we fill them from overseas.
In my view that's the appropriate use of the program.
If it's being used for any other purpose then it's not the right thing to do and it's not giving the appropriate priority to Australian jobs.
So I believe in putting Aussies first when it comes to employment opportunities in our nation.
I want to make sure that Australians have the chance to get the skills and training they need so that they can seize job opportunities.
Of course, from time to time businesses will face genuine skill shortages and look to full them from overseas, but it shouldn't be for any broader purpose than that.
HOST: A large chunk of these people on 457 visas though go on to become permanent residents - Aussies - isn't there a danger if you crack down on those people that migration numbers might fall, the economy might hurt?
What safeguards are in place to prevent that from happening?
PM: Absolutely no risk whatsoever. Our economy is a strong one.
We are operating a sizeable permanent migration program which has a skills focus as well as a humanitarian and family reunion component.
This is the way in which we grow and build our nation, through our own efforts to strengthen our economy and of course through permanent migration too - I'm an example of that.
The use of the 457 visa program is to give people short term visas to fill short term skill shortage needs.
Now if we're operating that program for a purpose other than for temporary needs, then in my view we're not doing the right thing.
If you look at our current healthcare system there are a lot of 457 visa holders working in healthcare.
That's because at an earlier point in time under the Howard Government with Tony Abbott as Minister for Health, we denied Australians training opportunities to become doctors and nurses.
We're short now, and we're filling them from overseas.
Well, my view is we should have extended to Australians those training opportunities.
HOST: But you're not really leading by example on this one are you? Let's look at your communications director. He's currently on a 457 visa - was there no Australian that could fill that position?
PM: Look, this is a little sideshow debate started by the Opposition.
All of my staff have met all of the regulatory and other requirements for working in my office.
It's not that that concerns people walking here on the streets of Parramatta.
What concerns them is they've heard too many stories where a tiler has been brought in and someone who has got tiling skills didn't get the job.
They've heard too many stories where a business has said they are looking for someone in a very high skill band, but when you actually drill into it they're looking for something like a security guard and someone on these streets could have filled the job.
HOST: This is an issue though, I mean you're advocating local people getting local jobs. Why did you have to look overseas?
PM: Look, it's one of those distraction issues and it's not the main game and I'm not going to get involved in it.
The issue for Australians here is about putting Australian workers first and making sure our training system is right.
HOST: How much were the unions behind this crackdown on 457 visas?
PM: The national interest is behind this crackdown. It's in the national interest to put Australian jobs first.
HOST: We've seen Pauline Hanson come out in support of your stance on 457 visas.
How does that sit with you, that someone who's known to have quite extremist views on migration is endorsing your point of view?
PM: Well, that's a matter for her.
HOST: Well it's more than a matter for her isn't it; it's a matter for you and your party.
You have criticised her as being extremist in the past, and if she's endorsing your views, voters no doubt associate you with her views as well.
PM: Well my views are right. I believe in putting Australian jobs first, and that's what I'm going to do.
I'm not going to have a 457 visa program that is being used not for proper purposes, and we have cracked down on that in the past, and we will continue to crack down on it in the future.
Third parties can engage in any commentary that they like.
I will do what's in the interests of Australians and Australian jobs.
The genuine political debate about this is a debate between me and the Leader of the Opposition.
I believe Australian jobs should come first.
He believes that temporary foreign labour should be a mainstay of our immigration system.
That is, he wants to see far more 457 visa holders.
So that is the real difference in Australian politics, and based on that, people will form their views about the policies of the political parties going into the election.
This whole debate, from all politicians of all stripes though on immigration, isn't there a danger that it's whipping up prejudice against all foreigners?
PM: Well certainly not. I'm making a very simple point here. We are a great multicultural society, a fantastic multicultural society.
We've done what has eluded many other nations from around the world, and that is build a peaceful, harmonious nation with people from many nations in our population.
We're here in Parramatta today - 50 per cent of people who live here were born overseas.
I am a supporter of permanent migration, I'm a permanent migrant to this country myself.
We operate a sizeable permanent migration program, so the only way in which Australians should treat anybody is with respect.
But then we do, for the needs of our economy, sometimes source from overseas people who come here for a temporary basis and then go back home. That's what 457s are for.
That should only be done when we cannot meet those skill needs in our economy and it shouldn't be an excuse to not provide Australians with appropriate training opportunities.
HOST: Well asylum seekers that come here don't have work rights so they're dependent on welfare to get by.
What measures do you have in place to get them out of that welfare trap?
PM: Well we had very clear advice that the ability to have work rights may have been acting as an incentive for people to make a very dangerous journey and potentially lose their lives at sea on a boat, give money to a people smuggler, perhaps not make it here.
Well I'm not going to have a circumstance where someone gets on a boat because they think even if their asylum claim fails that they will get a number of years of access to the Australian labour market.
I don't want people to get on those boats.
I don't want to hear about people drowning at sea.
HOST: Surely you don't want them stuck on welfare either?
PM: Well this is a tough policy area, but let's war-game the alternative.
If we said that there were work rights and people did get on that boat and several hundred of them drowned.
We've seen that happen. We know what that looks like. We know what it looks like to see people lose their lives at sea.
You've got to make a judgment here, and we've made it.
HOST: Well, you've said that you're here on a listening tour-
PM: Well I actually haven't said that, that's something the media have said.
What I've said about my visit to western Sydney is I've come here regularly, I've been here in the past, I'll be here in the future.
I come for a few reasons and one of the reasons I come is to talk to community members about what's on their mind.
One of the reasons I come is to make announcements about government policy which matter to this region of the world.
One of the reasons I come is to explain what the Government is doing that matters in this part of the world, and so I've been doing that over the past few days and I'll continue to do that.
HOST: Well you are certainly here to hear some of the views of the people of western Sydney.
When are you going to step out from some of these stage-managed events and actually get out amongst the people in the streets and hear some uncensored, real views of voters here?
PM: I've been hearing uncensored real views and once again this is a bit of media flimflam and I'm not going to get involved in it.
I've been meeting people, I've been listening to what they're saying to me, of course I want to hear their views, people are at liberty to say whatever they want.
I've sat this morning talking with community members, talking about community safety. They had the opportunity to say anything that was on their mind.
I've met with people in a variety of circumstances over the last few days where they were at liberty to raise any issue with me that they wanted to.
HOST: Well tell us, how has it gone? Have you managed to hold on, do you think, to even the most rusted-on voters? They haven't corroded off yet?
PM: I'll leave the political commentary to the political commentators.
I'll get on with my job as Prime Minister, and what that means is yes I do come and talk to communities.
I spent a comparable amount of time in south-eastern and central Queensland last year. I was in Hobart talking about jobs - 750 new jobs - on Friday.
I'll be travelling of course as I always have as Prime Minister and as a member of parliament, to listen to communities, to talk to communities and to govern for communities.
That's what I'm doing here and that's what I'll keep doing.
[ENDS]