HOST: Prime Minister good morning, welcome back to AM.PM: Good morning Sabra.HOST: Nielsen pollster John Stirton, you just heard him there, he says Labor has more problems than just the carbon tax; that voters consider the broken promise a separate issue and they're dark over that. They're cranky over asylum seeker policy. And he says even if the anger over the carbon tax is mollified, that your Government is in deep, deep trouble.
PM: Well Sabra, the purpose of a government is to do the big things that are in the nation's interests. Putting a price on carbon is in our nation's interest. It means that we will lock in prosperity for the future and do the right thing by our environment.For example it will mean that we take the equivalent of 45 million cars off the road in 2020. That's the amount of carbon pollution we'll see cut out of our atmosphere because we're putting a price on carbon.HOST: Prime Minister, but you said that Australians would come around on this carbon tax once it was legislated through the Parliament. That happened, public sentiment didn't change.Then you argued that people would change their view when compensation was in their pockets. That is now happening, but the public is still very hostile to this. The Nielsen Poll shows 62 per cent of people oppose it. That's a record result.PM: People I think will now have the opportunity to judge carbon pricing for themselves.There has been a hysterical fear campaign from the doomsday merchants who have tried to convince people over the last 12 months that on the time that carbon pricing came into being, that we'd see for example the coal industry go out of business.Now people are in a position from the start of carbon pricing and in the days ahead to weigh the worth of those claims.And of course the false claims that we won't be mining any more coal, that your Sunday roast is going to cost you $100; that your grocery shop is going to go up by 20 per cent; those claims will be proved false. So I think in the months-HOST: You've talked about-PM: I think in the months ahead people will look at carbon pricing and they'll have the opportunity to judge, not on the basis of what the politicians have said to them, but on the basis of what they're seeing in their own lives.HOST: Well that lived experience that you talk about - how long do you think it will be before they make up their mind, and either way to think that this is either a good thing or a bad thing.PM: I think we will see people in the months to come working out what carbon pricing is meaning for them and working out what it is meaning for the nation.Sabra, we've been through these kind of cycles in the past with big reforms that have been very controversial at the time, that now when people look back on them, people can't imagine that there was even ever a debate.Medicare, universal superannuation, things that we wouldn't be without that we really identify as part of the experience of being Australian were incredibly controversial at the time. And now of course they are accepted by everyone, indeed they have become bipartisan politics because they are so accepted.So getting the big reforms done, even in the face of controversy, is important for our country.HOST: But you and your ministers have been selling this compensation package for quite some time now. Only 5 per cent of people actually believe that they will be better off; 51 per cent believe they'll be worse off despite you saying that most people will be either better off or the same. Why isn't your message cutting through?PM: Well I think people will judge from their own experience. They won't have to listen to the pollies, they'll be able to judge for themselves.Seven million Australians will see a tax cut in their pay packet when they get it at the end of this week or fortnight, they'll be able to see how much more money is in their pay. They'll also be able to see-HOST: But that's the kind of message that you've been talking about for months now and that's not cutting through. Do you accept that you haven't done a very good job at selling this policy?PM: Sabra, it's only the 1st of July that we were able to deliver the tax cuts. It's only the forthcoming pay period that people will be able to see those tax cuts in their pay packet.And it's only over the period ahead, the months ahead, that people will be able to judge for themselves from their own lives rather than what has been said to them.And of course as we've been out there putting the facts before people, explaining how the scheme is going to work, we've seen from the other side of politics the most incredible fear campaign.And I think it's very interesting that Mr Abbott is no longer repeating some of his most hysterical claims, like the coal industry shutting down, Whyalla being wiped off the map, because he knows those claims were never true and he knows that Australians will be able to see that those claims were untrue.HOST: The evidence to date though is that the opposition to this tax isn't receding, if anything it's becoming more entrenched. The Australian Industry Group survey has found that 42 per cent of businesses across a range of industries plan to recover their increased costs by putting up their prices immediately.Wesfarmers chief Richard Goyder also says that it will just be a matter of time before suppliers start passing on their costs too. Might sentiment fall even further when this happens?PM: Sabra we've always been entirely upfront that it is the biggest polluters that pay the price here, but that we did expect some of that to be passed on and that to make a cost of living increase of less than a cent in a dollar.And that's why we are providing tax cuts, we've increased pensions, we've increased family payments and those benefits will continue for the future.But I would also direct your attention to the 300 businesses that have come out today and spoken positively about carbon pricing and the opportunities that will come for our nation from a clean energy future - businesses like GE, a global company, one of the biggest in the world, Westpac, one of our big, strong, local banks, all talking about the opportunities that will come from carbon pricing.HOST: If the public sentiment doesn't change on this and the polling figures remain about where they are right now, do you concede that Labor is headed for an electoral wipe-out? On Newspoll's figures today, they've done a further analysis, you'd have no Queensland Labor MPs elected to the House of Reps at the next federal election.PM: Sabra I'll let everybody else do the poll commentary. There's no shortage of people in the media and beyond who will do the poll commentary.What matters to me is doing the right thing for our country's future. And the right thing for our nation's future is to have less carbon pollution in our atmosphere and to be seizing the benefits of a clean energy future whilst we protect the standards of living of Australian families.And the vast majority of Australians will see us put a price on carbon, the start of it yesterday. And for their own lives they will come out square or in front as a result of the benefits we're providing through the tax system, pensions and family payments.HOST: Prime Minister, you're in Darwin for talks with the Indonesian President Yudhoyono. Will you discuss the increased number of asylum seeker boats arriving in Australia and whether Indonesia can do more to help Australia combat people smuggling?PM: I am in Darwin for my annual discussion with President Yudhoyono. This is an important opportunity for our two nations to talk about the full breadth of our relationship.Indonesia is a very important strategic partner for us. We've got a rapidly growing economic connection between our two countries.We work together in our region through the East Asia Summit. We work together globally for the health of the global economy through the G20. We also of course work together on counter-terrorism and combating the vile trade of people smuggling.
So yes, that will be in our discussions. But we will be talking about all of the issues in this very broad, very deep relationship.HOST: Does Indonesia need more assistance either in additional naval assets to patrol their waters or extra personnel?PM: Look we will be talking about these questions as we talk through the full sweep of our relationship.HOST: Are they doing enough to stop the boats leaving?PM: We work very, very strongly with Indonesia. We've got a great deal of cooperation with them. And the Indonesians themselves have been tackling the problem of people smuggling. They have disrupted people smuggling ventures. They have made considerable numbers of arrests of people smugglers.HOST: Will you accept all the findings of this expert panel that you've now set up to look at options to deal with asylum seekers, even if it recommends the dumping of the Malaysia swap?PM: Look I set up this expert panel for a reason and I set it up because I want to see our nation break the current parliamentary deadlock.The truth is in the last parliamentary week, last week, Australians I think would have been disappointed to see the performance of people in the Parliament.We as a Government have been prepared to compromise in order to get a solution here. Unfortunately our preparedness to compromise was met by the Opposition and the Greens not being prepared to shift one millimetre from their views.HOST: The question now though is if this panel recommends-PM: Well I'm still in the business of working through to get our nation a solution and that's why I've asked eminent Australians to guide us to the next stage.Of course Sabra, everything that the expert panel says I am going to view as having the utmost significance. I would not have set the panel up otherwise.HOST: The International Criminal Court says it expects a four member legal team, including Australian Melinda Taylor, to be released either today or tomorrow. Is that your advice?PM: Look I don't want to go in detail into that right now Sabra. We'll be dealing with that during the course of the day.HOST: Prime Minister, thanks for talking to AM.PM: Thank you.