HOST: Good morning to you.
PM: Good morning Jon.
HOST: Yesterday was nearly catastrophic, you don't know day-to-day what's going to happen in the Parliament do you?
PM: Day-to-day we get on with the job and this Parliament's passed around 300 pieces of legislation, so yes a minority government is a different situation than the nation's been in for a long, long time, but what's less-reported is the fact that the Parliament works, it gets things done. It passes new bills, it creates new laws, and they're not just garden-variety things if I can use that terminology. They're blockbuster pieces of legislation that are changing the nation and setting us up for the future.
HOST: If we need stability, and confidence is a big part of any economy, well we haven't got it at the moment have we?
PM: Well certainly, Jon, we've got stability, we'll pass the budget, we passed last year's budget in record time, so for all of the political drama that people understandably report and are interested in, actually the Parliament day-to-day works to get things done and the budget legislation last year was delivered in basically record time.
HOST: But you can't get clear air is my point. With the Independents, the drama over Peter Slipper, the drama over Craig Thomson, you never get clear air. The population, the business community, people are talking about anything except what you want us to talk about and what the Government wants to get on with is almost lost.
PM: I'm sure a lot of people yesterday were talking about the budget and what it meant for them and their families, and when people have those conversations, particularly people with school-aged children, they were looking at the Schoolkids Bonus and thinking that money will be a bit of a help.
So the real thing in Parliament yesterday which I think was the one to note was the vote on the Schoolkids Bonus in the House of Representatives, where of course we supported the legislation to get that money to families who need it, and in an astonishing move in my view, the Liberal Party led by Tony Abbott voted against families getting that assistance.
HOST: Well they've got a different vision for the nation. They've got a whole different focus on everything from the mining boom through to climate change. I mean, that's hardly surprising is it, they've got a different view of the country to you?
PM: They do have a different view and it's a view that low- and middle-income families can just fend for themselves, that they don't deserve Government support-
HOST: Well that not-
PM: -And if they get it they can't be trusted with it. That is exactly what Mr Abbott was saying yesterday, when he was challenged how is the Schoolkids Bonus different from the Baby Bonus delivered by the Howard Government, he offered the analysis ‘well, they just are.'
I mean, doesn't make any sense Jon. And then when pushed, he basically said, in an insulting fashion to families around the country, that they couldn't be trusted if they got this money.
HOST: Prime Minister if you did a snap-poll, I'm sure if we asked our listeners right now what's the one thing you would like to change, it would be the carbon tax. It's profoundly unpopular, even before it's come into effect.
PM: There is a lot of community anxiety about putting a price on carbon Jon, I agree with you. I understand people are worried about it, I understand many of them think that it's going to have this huge impact, that is they've heard the messages of Mr Abbott's scare campaign and they're worried about what carbon pricing will mean.
HOST: Well his scare campaign has been more effective than your attempt to sell it.
PM: People will get to judge. They won't, you know, they'll have the information to judge, not on what is said but what actually happens, the real facts.
HOST: But isn't-
PM: So from 1 July carbon pricing will start, our big polluters - the people who generate the most carbon pollution - will start paying the price. Families will see the family payments money, the increases there. Pensioners will see the pension increase, people earning less than $80,000 will see the tax cut from 1 July, and people will be able to judge for themselves.
HOST: He's a better salesman than you, is the point I was trying to drive towards though.
PM: What matters in our nation at the end of the day Jon is what happens. What happens-
HOST: You've got to take people with you don't you, on a journey, and he's taking people with him on his story, you're failing to take people with you on yours.
PM: Well I actually think it's about the facts, it's about the reality, it's not about stories, it's about outcomes. So people will be able to see what carbon pricing means for them, on 1 July.
People will be able to see what this budget means for them, as the 1.3 million families see the Schoolkids Bonus flow through to them for the first time, before 30 June. Then they'll be able to see for example, the increase in family payments, they'll see us start to build the National Disability Insurance Scheme.
They'll see the changes in aged care, than mean people can stay in their own homes for longer. They'll see the public dental waiting list blitz so more people, the lowest income Australians with, you know, really difficult problems. I mean we all know what it's like to have something wrong with your teeth, actually getting those basic health issues addressed.
People will see those changes, and they're the things that matter, not only today but for the future of the country.
HOST: And in fact I think, instinctively, you know that it's not about just the policies and you're right it's not just about the storytelling. It's in fact about both, you have to be able to come up with the policies but you also have to be able to sell them.
PM: Look, I'm accepting, Jon, we're not, we haven't got a different view so there's nothing to argue about here.
HOST: No, I'm not looking for an argument. I'm looking for an insight into the, whether or not- I know there is-
PM: I'm absolutely agreeing with you, 100% agreeing with you-
HOST: And there's (inaudible) within the Labor Party about your abilities to sell the message.
PM: Well Jon, if I can answer your question and I'm very happy to do so.
Being Prime Minister means you've got to do the things that matter to make our economy strong, to get people jobs and opportunity, to help people with the pressures on them day-to-day now, but also to build for the future. Getting those things done is my job.
Certainly explaining them to the community, taking the community with me is also my job, and Jon I'm the first to say I've got a lot of hard work in front of me, I understand that. But, that's both sides of the story.
You know, Mr Abbott is out there talking but ultimately Mr Abbott has to put out some policies that make some sense. And so, you know, as recently as yesterday, he's got himself in this big mess, doesn't believe in supporting low- and middle-income Australians with the costs of getting the kids to school, just doesn't believe in doing that, has said that he's going to support our family payments increases, but they're funded out of the mining tax.
And if he comes to government he's going to give the mining tax back to the mining companies, so you know, Clive Palmer and people like that will be happy, but that means he'll have to take those family payments away from people. He needs to explain why he thinks that's the right thing to do, so this works on both sides Jon.
It's not only what you say, it's what you do, and what Mr Abbott did yesterday was he walked into the Parliament and he voted against low- and middle-income families, families struggling to make ends meet, getting a bit of assistance with the cost of the kids going to school.
HOST: From Abbott to Costello, Peter Costello in The Age today, in his commentary piece says that the gap between promise and delivery is what counts and you never deliver on what you promise.
PM: Well I'm expecting Mr Costello to be lurking around somewhere in Parliament if the papers are - as the papers record today. He's apparently interested in a bit of a comeback, and I think that's probably because he's reflecting the concerns of many in the Liberal Party that Mr Abbott and his economic team don't really have a grip on the economy and aren't keeping the Liberal Party's credentials in economic management.
I mean, whether or not I like it the Liberal Party would say that they have credentials in economic management, and people like Mr Costello are obviously concerned that the current leadership is trashing those credentials.
On delivery, I'm happy Jon to be judged on delivery. So you know, let's go through it, any aspect of it you want to go through I'm happy to go through. I'm happy to go through the things we've delivered in schools, that have made a difference for kids-
HOST: Sure, I don't want to go through the whole-
PM: I'm happy to go through the things we've delivered in hospitals including the more doctors. I'm happy to go through the things we've delivered in the National Broadband Network, the things we've delivered on infrastructure, the things we've delivered like Paid Parental Leave, more money going into childcare than ever before.
I mean these things are real benefits that are out there, people are experiencing them now, whatever rhetorical flourishes Mr Costello might be using.
HOST: Do you ever think of giving up? This relentless assault on your credibility, your integrity, you judgement.
PM: Never.
HOST: Never?
PM: Never.
HOST: Okay. Interestingly, Barack Obama - President Obama - overnight in the United States has publicly stated his support for same-sex marriage. I don't know if you've heard much of what he had to say:
PRESIDENT OBAMA: It is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married.
HOST: I've asked you about this before, is your view changing too?
PM: No, Jon, my view's not changing. I know President Obama has made that statement. I haven't had the opportunity to view it myself, I've seen the reports of it, but no, my view hasn't changed and when a bill comes to the Parliament later this year, moved by Private Members, Stephen Jones, one of our Labor Members is bringing the bill. When that bill comes to the Parliament this year I won't vote for it.
HOST: Your progressive credentials yet again then are not measuring up.
PM: Well, you know, I believe what I believe Jon, you can judge it.
HOST: Well, people will. And they judge you all the time, of course. Just one more thing, and I know my time is running out. There's a fair bit of concern after the Craig Thomson scandal that Fair Work Australia is irreparably damaged and I notice that the boss itself of the organisation says it might need a re-branding exercise, a new name, and it might need to split its judicial functions from its regulatory functions. Have you got a view on that?
PM: Well, I am concerned about the amount of time that the Fair Work report took, when the investigation was underway by Fair Work Australia I didn't view it as appropriate for me to hector or lecture.
I mean this is the independent umpire and for me as Prime Minister to be seen to be barking instructions at them I thought was wrong. But now the inquiry is out I do feel free to say that I think it has taken too long. I think a few things need to happen from here. Number one the general manager, when she released the report on Friday made some recommendations about legislative changes so Fair Work Australia can more easily cooperate with police, so those changes should be made.
There's a review by KPMG of the handling of this matter, and when its recommendations are available if they require changes in legislation then of course we'll do them. And we want to see some changes that make the system of, you know, for everyone, unions and employer organisations, more transparent, and that there are stiffer penalties if people do the wrong thing.
And we're working on that now and we'll do that in a consultative way with the ACTU and also with employer organisations. I mean, overwhelmingly, Australia's trade unions are run by decent people who work hard, they're democratic, they're well-run and get on with the job of representing their members.
But we do need to learn some lessons from this, and I think that there are some changes we need to make to the legislation that covers registered organisations.
HOST: Alright, well there's a lot on your plate, and I'm indebted to you for making some time for us this morning as you're out and about selling the budget, and I look forward to seeing you here taking some talkback in the studio when you get a chance in Melbourne one day soon.
PM: Thanks Jon, look forward to it.