HOST: Prime Minister good morning.
PM: Good morning John.
HOST: You're looking very, very healthy.
PM: Thank you very, very much.
HOST: I don't know how you can look very healthy with such a taxing job, it's a hell of a job.
PM: It is a big job, it's a great responsibility and also a great opportunity to make a difference to the nation's future. So I'm feeling fine and fighting fit, thanks John.
HOST: Good on you. Tell me, when you're not Prime Minister, what are you, what do you do when you're not being Prime Minister? Or is it a 24 hour job?
PM: Well it's pretty much a 24 hour job, but I will take a break over Christmas, I'll actually go on two weeks leave at the end of this week. I'm going to spend some time with family, of course with Tim and then with my family in South Australia. And we do very ordinary things, watch DVDs together, have family meals, read books, you know all of that kind of stuff. Just very normal, quiet, at home activities.
HOST: While Parliament is sitting are you able to have those quiet, normal activities, or are you really kind of at it all the time?
PM: Yeah, at it all the time and most days are big days, whether or not Parliament's sitting. If I do get the opportunity on a weekend to have a couple of hours, I do find it fairly easy to use those hours to relax. I'm not someone who carries the stress with me too much, but basically I do work very long hours and weekdays and weekends can be indistinguishable, they can be a lot the same in terms of working time.
HOST: Are you tough?
PM: I think I am tough, yes, a resilient person.
HOST: Do you need to be tough?
PM: I think you need to be tough too, I mean there's a lot of responsibility in this job, you make some very big decisions that affect people's lives, you're also responsible for setting our nation up for the future, for its long term prosperity and opportunity and that's really what drives me. And of course, politics is contested, it can get personal, so you do need to be pretty psychologically strong and I think I am.
HOST: Do you like Kevin Rudd?
PM: I've been asked that at a press conference very, very recently-
HOST: (inaudible)
PM: Of course. Look John, I can understand there's always intrigue with these kind of things, but Kevin and I are working well together and that's the important thing for the Government and for the country.
HOST: Prime Minister, do you like him?
PM: Look, Kevin and I are working well together John. I just - the reason I'm hesitating is because I don't like the, sort of, pop psychology of it all - we're doing something serious, we're running the government and we're running a nation.
HOST: I understand that-
PM: -And the important thing in all of that is that people are working as professionals in the nation's interest and Kevin Rudd most certainly is.
HOST: I agree with all of that, but as the question was asked on a very serious program, or a program that considers itself to be very serious, I thought it worth asking again.
PM: I was asked it at a press conference, is my recollection.
HOST: That's right, and I saw it played back on a very serious television program. What's the best thing about being Prime Minister?
PM: The best thing about being Prime Minister is designing the policies that will set this nation up, that will make a difference for us now and for opportunity in the future. Not only designing them, but delivering them and then seeing them work.
So I can already say that I can see policies I delivered as Education Minister making a difference in Australian schools. Next year we will see the Clean Energy Package making a difference, it will be real in people's lives, they'll see the tax cuts, the pension increases. They'll also see businesses starting to build our clean energy future. Minerals Resource Rent Tax, that will come into operation next year and we will see small businesses get tax breaks and then go on and grow and give people jobs.
These are the things that really get you passion up about it, because you know you're making a difference, not only today, but for tomorrow. I've got a very clear vision of the kind of country I want us to be, I want us to be a land of opportunity where people can get ahead, where they've got the benefit of jobs, where there aren't regions that feel like they're left behind, or industries stranded in the past. And I also want to use all of that shared prosperity to do good things, fair things for each other, which is why a big thing that we will work on in 2012 will be the National Disability Insurance Scheme.
HOST: It's been a very interesting year for us and obviously for you. Was Barack Obama as charming as he appeared to be?
PM: Yes, he is. The private person is very like the public person.
HOST: Really?
PM: Very calm, very measured person, very intelligent, casual in a way. I mean clearly being President of the United States comes with all of this machinery and prestige, but in the middle of that he is actually one-to-one, in his reactions with people, a very casual person and of course with that brilliant smile. I would think the way you can best judge people's attitudes is not necessarily how they treat me - the Prime Minister of Australia - but how you see them interact with others and as President Obama moved through Parliament House he said hello to every attendant and every security guard he walked past, he doesn't have to do that, nothing makes him do that, except being a good person.
HOST: Yeah, does he have a great deal to presence?
PM: I think he does have a presence, absolutely and that fabulous high-voltage smile.
HOST: Do you think that presence comes with power?
PM: I think there is a connection, but I suspect if you had met President Obama before the days of his presidency, and I didn't have an opportunity to, but I think if you had met him then, you probably would have still said ‘here is someone special', with the attributes I've just described now. And now of course he's taken those attributes into a job that has so much power, I suspect it's mutually reinforcing the sense of presence that he probably naturally had and the power that comes with the office of the presidency.
HOST: I suppose he would have to be considered the most powerful man in the world, wouldn't he?
PM: America, of course, the strongest nation on earth, the super power, so in every sense you would say President Obama's got a lot of responsibility on his shoulders and a lot of opportunity to make a difference, not only for his country, but for the world generally.
John, we live in a changing world-
HOST: -We certainly do.
PM: And the US is incredibly strong and will be a super power for as long as the eye can see, but we are also seeing tremendous growth in our own region, here in the Asian region of the world, the growth in China, the growth in India, so we will see those countries emerge to a more powerful status in every sense of the word - economically, in military terms, in cultural terms, in presence, if you want to use that word about nations. Which is why I've commissioned a white paper, a formal Government study of our role, Australia's role, in this the Asian Century, and how we can be strong in it, because I think this is an era of grand opportunity for us - some risks, but overwhelmingly opportunity and we've got to make sure that we harness them.
HOST: When you consider that we have, what, give or take 25 million people, as opposed to 303 or something in the United States, we are a very, very impressive small country, are we not?
PM: We're the best country on earth John. Just no contest in my humble opinion. We, I think, have a uniquely Australian approach to trying to combine prosperity, the generation of wealth, with a sense of fairness. I think Aussie mateship does live deep within us, as a very core Australian value and one of the things that as a Government I think we should do in leading this nation, is bring that value to the fore in how we treat each other. And that changes as our society modernises, but it's always about giving people a helping hand when they face tough times.
I've wanted to do that in health, by improving heath, I want to do it now for people who face disability, life circumstance, an accident at birth, I don't want that to mean poverty and disadvantage for people for the long term. I want to make sure we're strong and resilient in the face of natural disasters because we never know-
HOST: -You never can tell-
PM: - Whether it be you, or me, or any of the people listening to us today who could face that circumstance. So that sense of making sure we're not leaving anybody behind as we build prosperity and opportunity, I think is a very traditional Labor approach, it's a very traditional Australian approach and the two go together.
HOST: How do you get on with Bob Brown?
PM: Look, I have a working relationship with Bob Brown. The truth is, if we look across the modern sweep of Australian politics, Prime Ministers have needed two talk to others and work with others in order to get their legislation through, apart from a brief period between 2004 and 2007 Prime Minister Howard, for example, always had to talk to people in the Senate, whether it be Bob Brown or whether it was Meg Lees and the Australian Democrats, or Greens from Western Australia - you would recall there were two female Green Senators from Western Australia.
So there's nothing usual in sitting down with people in the Parliament and talking turkey about what needs to be done next.
HOST: Does Bob Brown have a great deal of say in decisions that you make?
PM: I make the decisions with my Cabinet team and with my Caucus colleagues for the Labor Government. When those decisions require legislation, just like Prime Minister Howard would have said to himself ‘How am I going to get this through the Senate?', I say to myself ‘How am I going to get this through the House of Representatives and the Senate?' and then have the conversations which enable me to do that.
HOST: It must be a fascinating life, because it would require a great deal of very sensitive thought about which route to take to get the objective, whether you talk to him, or whether you talk to her, or whether you don't talk to anybody and just do it yourself. It must be a very challenging job.
PM: The nature of modern democracy, I think though, is it's not a command and control system, where a leader barks out orders and everybody snaps to attention and scurries around. I think as a society we're quite different from that in the modern age. People want to have a say, people in their suburbs, their towns, their communities want to have a say, want to have a direct relationship with government and make sure their voice is heard and they'll do that a variety of ways, sometimes they'll come to our Community Cabinet meetings, sometimes they'll go and bash on the door of their Member of the House of Representatives, or a Senator who's got an office in their local region, sometimes they'll send a letter, send and email, tweet, all of these things.
HOST: Plenty of modes of communication available to people now.
PM: And I think in our modern world people want to have a say and so the nature of our democracy, I think, needs to be in many ways more consultative and listening to people and we do that through our Community Cabinets, which I think are a great way of keeping our ear to the ground.
When you come back into Parliament House, I don't think that there's any problem with actually sitting down and having a conversation with people, whether that's one of our Labor backbenchers who runs into my office and says ‘My community definitely wants this' and they do that all the time, they're feisty representatives of their community, or whether it's a conversation with Rob Oakeshott, or a Tony Windsor, or an Andrew Wilkie, or indeed with the Greens political party.
HOST: Can you tell me, do your people, not you individually, but do your people listen to this kind of program to get a feeling of what - I start the program by saying what's on your mind Australia and they ring and tell us and they say things, probably, on this program, normally your people wouldn't really get to hear. Do people monitor this sort of program?
PM: For individual Ministers we obviously have big work programs to do, we're in meetings, we're at events, we're doing things were you can't have the radio on-
HOST: -You couldn't listen, no.
PM: You've got to be very focused, but people are in and out of cars all the time and would be listening to the radio frequently while they're travelling around and then, of course, as a general sort of oversight thing, we do have streams of media monitoring to let us know what's happening around the place and what the news of the day is.
HOST: It's intriguing the way it all works and when I say what's on your mind Australia, they really do tell you. They certainly don't hold back.
PM: People come and tell us directly too, of course they ring you John, and have those special conversations with you, or give you the feedback through all the mechanisms that you now have with modern technology to reach out into the community. I mean, we have those mechanisms too, so you do get a good sense from, for example our Labor Caucus members who will come to Canberra, having had a couple of weeks back in their electorate while Parliament's not sitting and they will say ‘Well, at the local shops, at the local fete, when I had a street stall, when I had a mobile office, or direct into my office, people came in and this was the issue they were talking about'. So they do have their ear to the ground.
HOST: Do you think that we talk Australia up enough?
PM: I always want to see us do it more-
HOST: -Me too.
PM: I'm incredibly proud of our country and I do get the opportunity to go to international meetings where I can skite about what a great nation we are-
HOST: -And it is, yeah.
PM: What a resilient economy we've got. I like the fact that I can go to international meetings and have conversations with other leaders, where when I go through our economy and statistics you can almost see them drop their heads because they are so envious about how our economy is going. Now that doesn't mean that there isn't more to do to bring opportunity for all Australians, but we are a great country. We pulled together during the global financial crisis, we've kept our economy strong, we bring that special sense of fairness and we've never been afraid of the future, even when it's required taking tough decisions today to build that future and I think as Prime Minister I've seen elements of all of that on display. And I've also seen the great pride we can take in the work of our military people, in Afghanistan and beyond, they are the envy of the world too, they are amazing at what they do.
HOST: They certainly are, but we get constantly asked what are we doing in Afghanistan?
PM: I can understand that, we've been there a long time and we've suffered some very heavy losses and particularly the incidents where people have seen an Afghan National Army soldier hurt our soldiers, that really makes people look and think and makes them feel very anxious as well full of grief for the families that have been affected.
So we do have to keep explaining we're in Afghanistan pursuing the mission that originally took us there, which was to ensure that it is not a safe haven for the training of terrorists who can then come and take Australian lives.
HOST: And that was the motive originally, wasn't it? To go there and make sure it didn't become a safe haven for terrorists, but isn't that job completed, or you feel that it could revert?
PM: We are in a process now, country-wide in Afghanistan, the process is called transition, where area by area they are being marked to transition to Afghan control and security leadership. Where we are, in Oruzgan Province, has not yet been marked for that kind of transition, but it will be and President Karzai has made it clear that he wants to see the whole nation under control of Afghan Security Forces by the end of 2014. Now that doesn't mean that our engagement with Afghanistan would end, we will continue to have a partnership for aid and development, Afghanistan is a very poor country, there's a lot to do to just make sure kids survive into, babies don't die when women are having children, that infant mortality comes down, that kids actually live through their childhood years and don't fall victim to diseases like polio, which we saw the back of years and years ago and people can get education and what they need to help make a life for themselves.
So we will be there in that form, we may also be there in some military form, but we are yet to make the decisions about that, as we work through not only here in Australia, but with all of the partner countries in Afghanistan, as to how this transition process will work and what lies beyond transition.
HOST: What was our original motive in going to Afghanistan?
PM: Well, you would recall we went there following 9/11, to use the parlance following the attack on the United States with the World Trade Centre coming down and all of that dreadful footage, we can easily bring to our minds those pictures of distress and loss in New York and of course also in Washington. So, we went there because we saw those attacks on the United States, our alliance was invoked, and we went as part of our alliance, but also because we knew that this kind of terrorism was a problem for the whole world, including for Australia and we lost Australians on that dreadful day.
HOST: We did. Do you think we're greatly indebted to the United States?
PM: I think we're great friends, great allies, great partners. So we've got bonds that go both ways, I think we value them and they value us.
HOST: I think that's quite right and I think it's very important. I can't really think of anybody else wanting to come to our rescue in a time of trouble, but I'm sure the Americans would.
Tell me, plans for Christmas, quiet one? Going to be with the family, as you told us, but apart from that nothing and just a little holiday, just a little break?
PM: Just a little break. I'm looking at taking a couple of weeks off. I'll spend some time out in the country, just very quiet, me and Tim and just enjoying some peaceful time in the country.
HOST: So when you say out in the country, have you got a place to go? I don't want to know where it is, but have you-
PM: -We might be fairly, I might be a bit secretive about the location, but we'll be out in country Victoria and then we'll go over to South Australia and spend some time with family.
HOST: I don't blame you for being secretive, it must be a nuisance to be Prime Minister sometimes, people would want to burden you with their woes, I imagine.
PM: I like having a chat with people and I've always enjoyed that part of this position as Prime Minister and indeed since I first came to the Parliament in 1998, being out meeting people, talking to people. When I was first elected that was obviously about the community I represented in the Parliament, the community is Lalor in Victoria. Now it's about the nation as Prime Minister, but I like having the conversations I have with people as I move around.
But I am looking forward to just a little bit of quiet and private time.
HOST: Peace and quiet, yeah.
PM: Peace and quiet, read a few books. Those kind of things.
HOST: What kind of books do you read?
PM: All sorts. I've put together a little collection to take away, so I'm taking a Frank Moorhouse, I'm looking forward to reading that, I'm taking away a collection of short stories about Australian women that a friend gave me, so that should be a good read. I'm taking away a book called, I think it's called Insatiable, it's actually a story of an Australian chef, about the food industry. So, a wide range.
HOST: A very wide range. Do you read mysteries?
PM: I do read mysteries. Yes, when you travel as much as I do, it's nice to sometimes at the end of a long day have a page turning novel, a light read that just helps you do the break between working really hard and trying to get to sleep.
HOST: Tell me this, are you familiar with an authoress - because I'm old fashioned I say authoress (inaudible) - called Donna Leon?
PM: Donna Leon.
HOST: L-E-O-N-E.
PM: No, I don't think I am. You might have to name a book title, I'd be more likely to remember the titles than I would the author.
HOST: I can't remember, but I'll - I can't remember the titles of the books, but she writes about Venice. She has a detective who is resident in Venice and they're all written around Venice, but she's the best literary writer since Agatha Christie.
PM: I used to love Agatha Christie books when I was growing up, I would have read all of them and I still now when on the TV they show the Miss Marples (inaudible) I'll record that in the hope that I'll someday get enough time to watch them. But you might have picked a new author for me John, I'll have to follow that up.
HOST: Donna Leon.
PM: A murder mystery in Venice would be an intriguing thing.
HOST: Yeah, I'll get - they're available in paperback. I'll get a couple and send them to you, if you'd like.
PM: Thank you.
HOST: And I hope you have a happy Christmas and I hope that the new year is fulfilling for you and of course for the nation and I appreciate very much your very generous time that you've given us this morning. It is very, very kind of you.
PM: Thank you very much John.
HOST: Happy Christmas.
PM: To you too.