HOST: Prime Minister Julia Gillard, good morning to you.
PM: Good morning.
HOST: And thank you for coming in this morning. Significant amounts of health union money spent on funding prostitutes, many of the low wage workers that fund those health union dues live here in Tasmania. I'd like to know how you feel looking at this issue this morning and knowing that you're going to meet some of those Tasmanians over the next couple of days.
PM: Well, I feel first and foremost that people shouldn't make assumptions and that there should be a proper process of investigation here and one is underway through the industrial umpire Fair Work Australia.
HOST: But we know that health union funds were spent on prostitution, that has been acknowledged out of the events that have come out of the Craig Thomson affair. People would like to know how you feel about that, given that many of the people that you have represented over your career are wondering ‘what's going on with my dues?'
PM: I certainly as Prime Minister always want to see the right thing done by working Australians. My job is to make sure that we've got a bright economic future and people can get the benefits of having a job, that's my focus. It's my focus today in Tasmania where I'm here to talk about making sure we can diversify the economy of this state and that we use wisely $120 million which we have allocated to work with the community on new economic prospects for their state and of course-
HOST: -Prime Minister, my question is how you're feeling about the Craig Thomson affair at the moment and how you think listeners this morning are feeling about that affair as they look at it from afar?
PM: I think people are probably, this morning, thinking about their job, going to work, they're probably on their way to work now or are at work already. They're thinking about their economic future, the next job, getting a better job, how secure the job is that they have today, they're thinking about the quality of their child's school. They're thinking about what would happen if they or a family member needed to go to an emergency department later today. They're thinking about what would happen if one of them, themselves or a family member had an accident or an illness that left them with a disability. These things are the things that I'm focusing on-
HOST: -Prime Minister they're thinking about the $400 that comes out of their pay cheque each year that goes to the Health Services Union, the biggest union in Tasmania. They look at that $400, in the past now, we know that it's gone, and in part, been spent on prostitution. How should they feel about that and that continuing expenditure out of increasingly tight budgets.
PM: Well you're asking me what I think the community is focusing on and I'm saying to you I think the community is actually focused on some broader questions. Yes, we've had a week in Federal politics where the Opposition has been focused on rallies and parliamentary games and focused on scandal. What I've been focused on during this week, what I'm focused on today and what I'm focused on everyday is jobs and opportunities for Australians now and into the future and making sure that no one is left behind.
HOST: Can you confirm that one of your office staff back in 2009, Ben Hubbard, called the Industrial Registrar to ask about a possible investigation into Craig Thomson?
PM: Well my Chief of Staff Ben Hubbard has made statements about this that are reported in today's newspapers, he says he doesn't have any active recollection of that telephone call.
But let's be clear about this, my Chief of Staff, chief of staffs in other ministerial offices, now and for decades and decades in the past and for decades and decades to come, ring public servants to check facts.
HOST: And did you know about that conversation at the time that it was happening? Did you know about those concerns at the time that they were being raised in your office?
PM: Look, like Ben Hubbard, I've got no active recollection of any of this, we're talking about things a few years ago. But let's be very clear about all of this because I know some very incorrect things have been said by the Leader of the Opposition on television today.
The Leader of the Opposition is trying to suggest that somehow this report means that I knew about matters involving the Member for Dobell for a long period of time before the public did. Well the facts of this matter are, and I actually think the facts matter, Tony Abbott mightn't but I do. The facts of this matter are that these matters involving the Member for Dobell were first publicly reported in April 2009. Any member of the public, every member of the public has had access to information about these matters involving the Member for Dobell since then.
Now what I think Tony Abbott's got to answer is he's always very keen to jump up and down and make allegations in relation to other people, what I think he's got to answer, is the only person in Federal politics facing a police charge today is a Liberal Senator. Now Tony Abbott is on the public record as saying he knew about that in May, but he didn't disclose it publicly until he was asked in July.
HOST: This is the woman with the diagnosed case of depression?
PM: This is a person facing a criminal charge and I make no assumptions about the circumstances or what should happen when that comes to trial or fruition. That's a matter for proper process. And I am entitled to make the point and I will, Tony Abbott's got one standard for his team, the Liberal member facing a charge he says let the proper processes-
HOST: -Prime Minister what people are wondering about (inaudible)-
PM: -I believe in the same standards.
HOST: (inaudible) your standards?
PM: Well let me answer that, I'll answer it very clearly-
HOST: I'd like you to listen to what Chris Brown from the Health Services Union had to say on-
PM: -Well can I answer your question first and I will answer your question. My standards are this, whether it's the Member for Dobell or a Liberal Party Senator, I think the standards are the same and the standard is if there is an investigation in train by a proper authority then that investigation should be allowed to run its course before people start making assumptions about what may or may not have happened. I have been prepared to do that every day in relation to the Liberal Senator, I'm asking Tony Abbott who says that that should be the standard for his Liberal Senator, to apply the same standard to the Member for Dobell.
HOST: Have a listen to Chris Brown, this is the head of the Health and Community Sector Union, a very well placed gentleman within that, has been part of the discussions over this issue in past years, this is what he told us yesterday.
CHRIS BROWN: What I do know, because I had a lot to do with the initial internal investigation that uncovered a lot of the serious questions that we've got to have answers for, is that about $100,000 of cash withdrawals took place, of which there is no account for, that there's clearly a number of transactions on a credit card that we didn't even know existed that were undertaken in brothels. There was a whole lot of expenditure that seemed to have absolutely nothing to do with the objects of the union or what the union is there for or what we're doing and we need answers to all of those questions about who was responsible for that and if they were responsible for it, I would hope that they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The fact that the Gillard Government might fall is consequential.
HOST: Well, there we are. And so he thinks that the Member for Dobell should speak on this and indeed that you should regardless of the-
PM: -Well that's not what I just heard him say, thank you very much. That's not what I-
HOST: -What do you take out of it Prime Minister?
PM: Well, let's not put words in - I think the name was Mr Brown. Let's not put words in his mouth. What he's just said then and I'm very happy to say I can agree with his sentiments, what he's just said then is he's concerned about a set of matters and they should be properly investigated and if someone has done the wrong thing then they should be held to account for doing the wrong thing. That's what he's just said. Happy to endorse every word of that. I don't think you should put words in his mouth.
HOST: This is what Andrew Wilkie told us yesterday.
ANDREW WILKIE: Now this in no way cuts across the presumption of innocence and the fact that the inquiries which are underway about him should be allowed to run their course, but as a Member of Parliament I agree with the Opposition in this case, it's entirely appropriate for the Member to stand up and to say as little or as much as he wants, even if he just simply says ‘look there are inquiries under way, and I should leave all my comments until those inquiries are finished'.
But at the moment such serious allegations swirling around the issue, I think he should stand up and have the opportunity to clear his name or just to make a simple statement.
HOST: That's what Andrew Wilkie thinks. Do you risk losing the support of the Independents over your stance on this?
PM: Well, let's just be very clear here, I think let's leave the melodramatic tone behind and just go through the facts. The Member for Dobell, there are a set of assertions, there are a set of things that have been in the public domain for a long period of time, as I said first published in April 2009.
There's a Fair Work Australia investigation in process. I think that investigation should be allowed to run its course free of political interference. That's what I think is appropriate. Now I know that Tony Abbott thinks if he can throw enough mud about this, you know he's still angry about the results of the last election. So, Tony Abbott still angry about not being prime minister thinks that if he can throw enough mud-
HOST: -But that's what Andrew Wilkie thinks-
PM: -Well let me finish my sentence. Tony Abbott thinks if he can throw enough mud about this then somehow he can get himself the job as prime minister, the only job in the country he cares about or is it focused on or has been focused on during this parliamentary week when we've been focused on the jobs for Australians.
And apart from bringing hypocritical standards to bear there, what he has done today is he's actually said that he believes that Fair Work Australia should hurry up, that is he is starting to try and interfere with what the independent industrial umpire is doing-
HOST: -But Andrew Wilkie thinks Craig Thomson should speak on the floor of the Lower House.
PM: And that's a matter for Mr Thomson as a parliamentarian-
HOST: -You can't be part of that process, direct-
PM: -That's a matter for Mr Thomson as a parliamentarian. And I do note, once again, Andrew Wilkie of course, entitled to his views, he's put his views, he's also put his views about the presumption of innocence. I do note that the only Member of the Federal Parliament who is charged with a criminal offence has not made a statement to the Parliament.
But if I can come back to this question of standards, because I think it's the one at the centre of all of this. The standard here is that if there is an investigation by an appropriate authority that is underway that that investigation should be allowed to work through to its conclusion without people making presumptions about what may come out of that investigation and without people trying to influence that investigation.
Today we've had the Leader of the Opposition trying to say ‘well, get on with it'. Well I think the independent authority should be allowed to set its own timeframe. And we've had Senator Ronaldson, one of Tony Abbott's Liberal Senators, actually saying the Minister should get involved in this investigation before Fair Work Australia and that is completely inappropriate.
HOST: Prime Minister, just briefly, do you have the support of your own Tasmanian Lower House Members on the forestry deal that you've struck with the State Government over the last few weeks. All of them?
PM: Of course and I've met with them, they are great advocates for their local communities, absolutely great advocates for their local communities-
HOST: -And they're all on board for this deal-
PM: -Well, I'll answer your question if you'll allow me to do so. I came to this state to strike an interim agreement and then a final agreement about the future of a sustainable forestry industry and supporting workers, supporting contractors who are losing their livelihoods and also getting an economic future for this state, through providing $120 million to help diversify the economy.
Of course, in an area where people have been battling each other for decades, as we seek to deliver that agreement there are anxieties and concerns. And our Lower House Members have represented those anxieties and concerns to me, they'll continue to do so and they'll work through with me-
HOST: - Is Barack Obama coming to Australia in November?
PM: Well let's just finish-
HOST: -We've only got seconds left.
PM: Sure, and I'll use those seconds if I can, so my Lower House Members are working with me on the delivery of this new economic future, it's all about jobs.
On President Obama, of course he is welcome in Australia whenever he wants to come but making announcements about the President's travel plans are a matter for the White House.