PM: Good afternoon to everyone and can I offer a very sincere welcome to Tony Blair, who is with me today. Tony is here to speak to Australians in various ways, he will be on a speaking tour, but we've had the opportunity today to spend some time together talking about events around our world which matter so much for Australia.
I've enjoyed our discussions, which have included talking about climate change and how the world is acting to cut carbon pollution; our discussions which have included circumstances in Europe with the European economy. We've spent some time reflecting on the tragic events in Norway, and we've also had an opportunity to discuss the work that Tony Blair is doing in the Middle East, work that is of importance to that region and to the world in general.
I've joked with him as I've walked down the stairs that I'm here all the time and you, the journalists in the room, will be more interested in listening to him so I'll turn to Tony now for some comments and we'll take questions.
You'll be intriguing because you're not always here.
BLAIR: Thank you very much Prime Minister, Julia, for this real pleasure to be here with you in Australia, Melbourne, and I think you've very accurately summarised the content of our conversations.
Perhaps I'll just say one word in particular about what's happened in Norway which is appalling and tragic and I think it's just important people in Norway know that today right round the world everyone is standing with them in sympathy and solidarity. Norway's a wonderful country, it's a country with a beautiful and deep spirit to it and I think the way that it's come together over these past couple of days has also indicated the underlying strength of the country and the essence of that spirit, so I echo fully the sentiments the Prime Minister has given and are standing with the people of Norway at this point.
As for everything else, ask away. Is that right thing? I'm a bit out of practice with Prime Ministerial press conferences but anyway.
JOURNALIST: On the hacking scandal in the UK, do you think the Murdochs themselves should be held responsible for what's happened there?
BLAIR: Look, I think there's going to be several inquiries that are underway in the UK now. I think all of these issues are going to be gone into in depth, which they should. Obviously what happened in relation to the hacking was pretty despicable, what happened there, but as I think both the Murdochs said when they went to the select committee in the House of Commons, you know, they take responsibility for that and it's important that we now get to the bottom of what has happened and work out a right way of trying to get these relationships on a sound footing for the future.
JOURNALIST: Have you received any assurance that weren't hacked? Your Chancellor looks like he was?
BLAIR: I actually, well when I was Prime Minister of the UK I never had a mobile phone, which nowadays I think was a real advantage for me, so I've never thought that it's possible that I would be but I honestly have no idea.
JOURNALIST: How much trouble do you think Mr Cameron is in on this matter, and you're one of several British Prime Ministers that have been close to the Murdoch press and seen as being close to the Murdochs, is there an element for you of ‘there but for the grace of God go I', that something like this didn't blow up on your watch?
BLAIR: I think I feel that more generally about positions of Prime Ministers. Anyone who's been in the position of Prime Minister knows that these things always come to you when you're in the job, but I honestly don't know. I mean, I haven't really got anything to comment on it.
JOURNALIST: Could I ask another Murdoch-related question? Did you require Mr Murdoch to enter Downing Street by the front door or the back door?
BLAIR: I can't honestly remember.
JOURNALIST: The second question is do you agree with Mr Cameron that political leaders should keep media proprietors at arms' length, and the third question is what advice would you have for Ms Gillard about her relations with media proprietors?
PM: And front doors and back doors, you know, anything you've got to say?
BLAIR: Or any door. No, I think I'll leave that to her.
Look, let's be honest about it. The problem is when you're a political leader, never mind a prime minister, you get your message across, you have to get your message across, through you guys, so whatever I say today the whole of the public's not going to be watching every word I say. What happens is you will write about it, or you'll put it on your television and you know, therefore of course it's going to matter to have relationships with people in the media.
But I think one thing that is very important is to try and get those relationships right in the sense that the media is an important part of our democracy, on the other hand governments should govern for the public interest. And I think it's sensible therefore and in light of what's happened in the UK at least, we'd look at that and how we can put it on a better footing, but for most politicians I think the key thing is the distinction between news and comment, you know, and if you have that distinction clear then it's easier for you to have a relationship that is acceptable with the media people because they're powerful people within society, but in circumstances where you don't feel that those media outlets are going to be used as instruments of policy but they essentially remain instruments of news.
JOURNALIST: Mr Blair, on a different topic, yesterday Australia signed a deal to send 800 asylum seekers to Malaysia. What do you make of our asylum seeker solution?
BLAIR: I really think, look, I had enough problems with these types of issues when I was British Prime Minister in Britain. I think I'll leave that one for the Prime Minister, thank you.
JOURNALIST: Did you talk about the carbon tax during your conversations with Ms Gillard today and what do you make of Australia introducing a price on carbon?
BLAIR: Again, let me say right from the outset that these are decisions for Australians, for Australian people, for the Australian Government and not for me, but obviously I've experience with these types of issues because we have a European emissions trading system. Round the world right now people are moving towards a low-carbon economy as the future. I mean, that's what's happening and the only way you do that in the end is you put some sort of price on carbon.
So, I think that's- obviously, I had to deal with these situations when I was Prime Minister. I was there when we created the European emissions trading system. These things are always tough to begin with, but the central decision that you have to make is ‘are you going, over time, to move to an economy that is less dependent on carbon?' If you are. then you usually set a target, round the world people have set targets and you've got one here. 2020, it's going to be five percent less than the year 2000?
PM: That's right.
BLAIR: Now, that's over business as usual is what, is 20 percent or there abouts-
PM: -Yeah, 23.
BLAIR: -Rise, so you inevitably are going to be in a situation therefore where you're going to have to adjust and change your economy, so that's what we're doing in Europe, California, right round different parts of the world, even China's doing in its new 5-year plan, so you then have to choose your policy solutions and see that's a matter for you, but I think round the world right now there is a sense that it is intelligent to try and move away from over-dependence on carbon.
JOURNALIST: You described the actions of News Ltd, News Corporation rather, as despicable, do you think it's right- do you think it'll be better for the company if Rupert Murdoch was to step aside (inaudible).
BLAIR: Look, I think everyone agrees the hacking of that poor girl's phone was despicable, I don't think there's anybody who would dispute that - including the Murdochs, by the way - but what happens to News International is a matter for them.
JOURNALIST: Are you surprised that there's still a debate in this country over the science of climate change, since that's been settled in Europe, seemingly (inaudible)
BLAIR: Look, I'll tell you what I think about this, because as I say I've handled this many years ago myself and I put the issue of climate change on the 2005 G8 agenda. What I think, I mean I'm not a scientist and I'm aware of the fact there are still people who dispute the science of climate change.
All I know is that both of my chief scientific advisors told me when I was in government that their view was, the overwhelming probability was that changes in climate were manmade and that we should act.
Now my view, very simply, was in circumstances where that's been said to me and to other heads of government, it would be irresponsible of me to simply sit there and say ‘I've got a hunch you're all wrong', because I'm not qualified to say that.
So I think, back our way, at least, I think this argument is about climate change, it's also for us about energy security as well frankly, and there's a view that the consensus is that this is a real problem, we've got to tackle it. So how you tackle it, as I say you can debate that, but I would say if anything in the world today, and this is despite Copenhagen not resulting in agreements and so on, that there's a pretty clear move worldwide to shift away from dependence on carbon. Now, that, I think is, that's the future, and for us therefore in Europe particularly, we've put a lot of effort into developing clean technology industries for the future.
I mean what is interesting in a place like California now is I would say there is a paradigm shift going on from information technology to clean and green technology as the new wave of innovation for the future and all of this I actually find immensely exciting, so I think it's got tremendous potential.
Now, whenever you then embark on the policy process that brings about these changes, I mean, it's tough. I remember we introduced the climate change levy in the UK and then the emissions trading system, and both were very difficult and very fraught whilst we were doing them, but I think today, probably, there would be a consensus around it.
JOURNALIST: So you're not necessarily surprised that the Prime Minister's poll rating and the Government's poll ratings are suffering while trying to introduce this change?
BLAIR: Look, my experience of politics is that if you try to take difficult decisions you always end up causing yourself a certain amount of problems, but that's what you're there for and the question is, as I say this is a decision for you guys and not for me, but the question is what's the right position to have for the future.
JOURNALIST: Do you have a view on whether News should be able to buy that remaining stake in BSkyB?
BLAIR: He's pretty keen on this subject. I mean, I know - but I've kind of - I think I've said all I've got to say on it really.
JOURNALIST: Do you have any, sorry, do you have any advice for Prime Minister Gillard in terms of selling her carbon-friendly policies?
BLAIR: No, and one of the things, by the way, I've discovered since leaving office is how much easier it is to give advice than to take the decision, so, all I ever do when I'm with a prime minister is express my respect and solidarity for the fact they're doing the job because I know how tough it is.
But this is a, these debates are big debates, you know, but what I always think about a country is if your politics is about big debates, I mean, that's a plus in a way, and by the way if you were in Europe right now, in any country in Europe or in the US, we would be having a debate that you're not having here. I think, are you not due to return to fiscal balance in, what is it, 2013 or something?
PM: Yeah, '12-‘13.
BLAIR: We'd be pretty happy to be in that situation back in Europe at the moment or in the US.
So, this debate over the carbon policy, of course it's going to be a big debate, but that's what democracy and politics is about.
JOURNALIST: Ms Gillard, just on the Malaysian deal.
PM: Yes.
JOURNALIST: How can you guarantee that people will be treated a certain way, guarantee that treatment, when they're being held in another country? Is that unrealistic to expect that country will live up to that standard?
PM: We've entered an agreement with Malaysia. The agreement was made public yesterday and signed yesterday. It's got protections of human rights for people who are transferred by Australia to Malaysia, and of course we've entered that agreement on the basis that both governments signing the agreement will honour their obligations under it.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, do you think you could learn a thing or two about policy and political salesmanship from Mr Blair?
PM: I've had the opportunity to meet with Mr Blair before.
Everybody around the world has always got something to learn and it's always good to have an exchange with people from other parts of the world and see the world for a moment through their eyes, so I've enjoyed our discussions.
Here, on pricing carbon, I will keep explaining to the Australian people how this will work, that it will enable us to cut carbon pollution, cut taxes, increase pensions and of course it also enables us to seize clean energy opportunities.
Mr Blair before referred to California - I remember visiting California a number of years ago and when I did I came back struck by the fact that people were talking about reducing carbon in the language of opportunity, the opportunities for the future, the opportunities for a clean energy future. Well, there's no better country on earth to realise those opportunities than Australia, and the package that I announced will enable us to realise that clean energy future.
JOURNALIST: Mr Blair, just on the European debt crisis, at what point do you think taxpayers in other countries should stop bailing out countries like Greece or Spain, and are we getting there?
BLAIR: I think the measures that the European Council announced last week are really important in helping stabilise the situation, particularly because the European Stability Fund is going to be used now both to offer precautionary lines of credit and also to be able to recapitalise the banks.
But what people understand, whether they're in Germany, or in France, or in Greece and Ireland, is that people are in the single currency together, and the impact of whatever measures are taken on the single currency effects everybody. So, sure, I mean, you know, if you're a taxpayer in Germany, you want to make sure that the reforms that have been promised are actually going to take shape, but on the other hand, you're also going to be impacted if the Euro's in difficulty.
I think, long term for Europe, the central thing is there will have to be measures of fiscal coordination put alongside monetary union, and secondly and very clearly, I think, there is a need for time to reform the European social model in order to make sure that we can afford the liabilities that we got; and, in particular, in the like of changing demographics between the European Union.
JOURNALIST: President Obama has just made an address to the nation in which he's warned of a deep economic crisis if the debt ceiling isn't increased. How concerned should the world be about potential US default?
BLAIR: I think everybody hopes and believes that shortly before midnight the deal will be done that allows this situation to stabilise, because obviously, it's dramatically important for everyone that it does. I think what President Obama is trying to do there is correct, in saying he wants a big deal that actually sorts the problem out, not one that kicks the can down the road - actually, not very far down the road, either - because that's not going to help anybody.
And this is all about, for us both in America and in Europe, this is all about taking some of the long term decisions that in a way the financial crisis has exposed; they've not necessarily created the need for these changes. So one of the reasons why I think it's important that is President Obama is saying to look at some of these major tax and spending questions within the American budget is precisely because if we want the situation to be stable in the future, we have got to sort some of these long-term problems out. Same is true in Europe.
The financial crisis may have accelerated the need for change, made it more urgent, but the need for change is there, and has happened, really, as a result of things that have been building up over a long period of time. But, you know, this is a troubling and anxious moment for the world economy, for sure.
PM: If I could just respond to that, too, I think all of this discussion reminds us that we've come out of the global financial crisis strong.
Yes, we've got some short-term softness in our economy, and the summer of natural disasters we lived through has cost us as a nation and cost our economy, but the underlying fundamentals of our economy are strong: a big pipeline of investment; strong economic growth to look forward to; and as we go about the job of pricing carbon a clean energy future to look forward to as well.
So, we're not immune from the global economy, but we are in very different economic circumstances from the US and from Europe, and the discussions we've had privately today, as well as what's been said here, I think, remind us that Australia is in a very different position, with a strong economy that is the envy of the world.
I joked when we met privately that whenever I talk to leaders from overseas and most of them would happily cut their right arm off in order to have the kind of economic indicators we've got in this country. That's something that we should take some pride in, but also look at the opportunity that it brings.
Yes, we will go through here.
JOURNALIST: Just on asylums seekers, the Department of Immigration has confirmed over the weekend teenagers in the Broadmeadows facility engaged in self harm. How long before all children are out of immigration detention as promised by you Government?
PM: Well, Minister Bowen has worked hard on this, and we acquitted the objective we set ourselves by the 30th of June. Obviously, I do want to see the treatment of children through community detention and other arrangements, and Minister Bowen has worked hard on that.
I'd also say we do support people in detention with support services including mental health services; and I would make the point that whether it's an act of self harm or whether it's an act of misbehaviour, nothing that people do in detention centres changes the processing of their claim.
JOURNALISTS: (inaudible)
PM: We'll go here, and we'll come to the front and then come back.
JOURNALIST: (inaudible) reform, one of your Ministers last night was booed at a Sydney Leagues club. Are you worried that you're picking a fight with the clubs movement?
PM: Pokies reform is important. I mean, I'm obviously from here, I'm from Melbourne, I'm from Melbourne's west and I've heard a lot of stories about people who have lost their homes, lost their families, as a result of pokies addiction. So, we want to have a system where people have got a bit more power in their own hands, that it's actually very transparent to them the amount that they are risking through putting money into the poker machine.
In the same way, if you go and bet on a horse race, it's very transparent to you what you could win, but also what you could lose. I want it to be transparent to people when they're using a poker machine what they could win, but also what they could lose. That's the force of the reforms that we're talking about. Minister Macklin is working on this and it's a consultative process, of course a consultative process with clubs in New South Wales, as well as gambling venues around the nation.
Yes?
JOURNALIST: I wonder if I can ask you to put your Middle East hat on briefly. What can be done to persuade or dissuade the Palestinians pressing for UN endorsement of Palestinian statehood at the forthcoming session of the UN General Assembly? Or maybe you don't think they should be dissuaded?
BLAIR: Well I think the problem is that, as indeed the President of the Palestinian Authority has recognised, the problem is that anything you do unilaterally is not going, effectively, to deliver what the Palestinians want, and what we want to see, which is an independent and a sovereign Palestinian state.
So what we are working on right now is to try and see if we can establish some principles of guidance to renew the negotiation. We know what the issues are: borders, security, Jerusalem, refugees are the key issues. President Obama has set out in a speech a couple of months ago the basic analysis for this. If we could get agreed a set of principles that would then allow a negotiation to be credible, then I think that would enable us to manage any actions that are taken at the UN a lot more easily.
JOURNALIST: It's not really very promising, is it, it must be said?
BLAIR: Right now, I mean, it's tough, very challenging to do, but we're going to carry on working on it, and by the way every time you look at this issue to do with the Israelis and Palestinians, you realise 1) it is of fundamental importance to the whole stability of the region, and 2), there is only one solution, which is the two states.
So, whatever, however many different iterations we go through in crises and challenges, you always come back to that basic point, and somehow we've got to restore the credibility of that negotiating process and that's what we're going to spend time working on, but the only way you will get a Palestinian state is through negotiation, ultimately.
JOURNALIST: Mr Blair, you've visited Australia often over the years. Are you pleased to be back and what will you be doing in whatever downtime you might have this time around?
BLAIR: First of all, I adore Australia, I am a total fan of all things Australian, and it's fantastic to be back here. I'm not sure how much downtime I've got actually, but I will be probably paying a visit to the gym at some point.
PM: There's lots of other things to do as well.
BLAIR: I know, but I thought, maybe I shouldn't tell the media about those things.
PM: Oh, right OK.
JOURNALIST: Now that the Malaysian deal has been finalised, is the Government looking at finalising similar deals with other countries in our region?
PM: Malaysia is the country who we've been in discussion with, and the agreement's been finalised. We continue to be in discussions with PNG about having a centre there, and those discussions will continue. As everybody, I think, is aware this is a difficult time in the life of the nation of PNG, with Sir Michael, a giant of that nation and its politics so very unwell.
So, we understand that the people of PNG, and the leadership of PNG, is more focussed on those matters at the moment; but we will continue discussions with PNG on a centre there.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister (inaudible) patience with the Greens over the forest deal in Tasmania?
PM: Well, it's done, so it will be delivered. People express different views about it but it's done and it will be delivered, in my view, through the Tasmanian Parliament, as it properly should, and everything we need to do as a Federal Government to honour the arrangements, we certainly will do.
JOURNALIST: The Greens are saying they want an extra 140,000 hectares protected. Is that something you would consider?
PM: No, it won't happen. The deal's done.
JOURNALIST: Just quickly on Malaysia, sorry, by funding education, health and services for the asylum seekers, will you spend more than the $300 million allocated in the budget?
PM: No, all of this was properly and transparently disclosed. I think it's very important to be clear on the money here, and describing the money has been out there for a number of weeks now. It is $76 million that supports the transfer of asylum seekers from Australia to Malaysia, and the support services for them when they are there.
Overwhelmingly, the money of the almost $300 million that's allocated is about settling 4,000 genuine refugees from Malaysia in our nation. Running a refugee program takes money. we do it now, it takes money to settle people here. When we take 4000 more from Malaysia, that'll take money and the money's been allocated. People should not confuse those two figures - the figure in relation to the people transfer to Malaysia is $76 million over the Government's budget period, the forward estimates.
So, we will take this as the last question, and then we'll go.
JOURNALIST: Would you like to talk about the world, where the privacy laws need replanned, this is not just limited to News, it seems to be taking on a much broader bent, including here. Do you think there's a need for that?
BLAIR: Again, I don't want to get into any discussions you may be having here. I mean, I think what the enquiry will allow us to do in the UK, which is sensible, is to look at what are the guidelines of proper conduct or not.
Even though, like most politicians, I've had what I would consider quite a tough time with the media from time to time over the years, nonetheless I respect the fact that the majority of journalists want to do a decent job and want to be true to the principles of their profession.
I think what is necessary is to, from our perspective in the UK, to recognise there have been practices that have transgressed those basic principles and we need to eliminate them, and get to a situation where you've got a set of standards that apply that people adhere to, and that, by the way, I think, makes it easier for journalists then, because they know everyone's obeying the same rules and the difficulty you get into is where people, you know, the competition is so intense.
I mean, I made a speech about this four or five years ago, where the competition is so intense that standards become a casualty of that, and that can happen in any walk of life. So, that, I think, that's the thing you focus on and get right, and then lots of other issues to do with privacy, and so on, I think, in some ways flow from getting those basics standards in place.
PM: Thank you very much.
BLAIR: Thank you.