HOST: Prime Minister, welcome to the studio.
PM: Good morning, Lyndal.
HOST: If we can start with the Newspoll first. Anthony Albanese said last night that Labor's internal polling reflects the published polling. Presumably, then, your polling is telling you your primary vote's slumped, your dissatisfaction rating's very high. Do you have any choice but to push on with your agenda regardless, because changing strategy like Kevin Rudd did would only push your support lower?
PM: I'm determined to push on with the agenda because it's the right thing to do for the country's future - that's what's driving me, Lyndal. We're in the midst of a tough reform with pricing carbon. We need to tackle climate change as a country. That means we have to cut the amount of carbon pollution we're putting in the atmosphere.
HOST: So you won't be backing away at all from that?
PM: This is a tough reform and it may get even tougher before it gets easier, but I'm going to do this because it's the right thing to do for the country's future. I'm not going to put this country's future and the problems with climate change in the too-hard basket and just hope it'll go away.
We come to this tough reform, and it is a difficult reform, but we come to this reform with a strong economy so we can act and get this right. We also come to this reform with people under cost of living pressure wondering, if they're going to see the benefits of the strong economy, and we can support them through tax cuts and increases in family payments and the pensions to help them manage their cost of living pressures - and that's what we'll do.
HOST: Other polls have shown that Kevin Rudd is preferred to you. What do you think when you see those sorts of numbers?
PM: Well, look, I'm not someone who governs with one eye on the polls. My eyes are firmly trained on the future and what is right for this country and I'm not going to be Prime Minister and say it's too tough for this nation to tackle climate change; it's too tough for us to get to the clean energy future we must have if we're going to be a strong economy; it's too tough for us to protect our environment.
I'm going to get on with that tough reform. It could get even tougher before it gets easier, but I'm absolutely determined to get it done.
HOST: You said during the election you wanted to develop a lasting consensus on climate change. You're far away from that, aren't you?
PM: Well I believe that once carbon pricing is in place, people will see how the system works and the benefits of it. We're a long way from that. That's why I think we're in a tough period now and there may be some further tough periods ahead, but ultimately I believe Australians will recognise the need to price carbon and how the reform works. They will see the price being put on the 1,000 big polluters. They will see those big polluters responding rationally. They're rational business people. They look at all the dollars and cents in their profit and loss statements and they'll see this item that says ‘carbon pollution price' and they'll go ‘how can I make that less?' They'll do that by cutting carbon pollution, and people will see in their purses and their wallets the benefits of the tax cuts and the family payments increases and the pension increases.
HOST: We don't know the carbon price yet, but do you need to set it low because of the wariness in the community and because of things like the carbon price in the EU collapsing?
PM: We'll set the price at the right price for the economy and the right price to drive change to a clean energy future. I'm not managing all of this based on the politics. I am coming to this task based on my determination to lead this nation to a clean energy future. It's the right thing to do by our environment. It's the right thing to do by our economy. It's a tough period, but we're going to get it done.
HOST: You've said you expect the carbon price to be announced in July. Is that still what you're aiming for?
PM: Look, we're certainly aiming to get this done as soon as we can and all of the details out there for people to see, but we're going to get every bit of this right, too, Lyndal.
HOST: So it may be longer than that?
PM: Look, we'll get it out there as soon as we can, but this is a big transformation for our economy as we move to a clean energy future and of course this is a big package of help for Australians, with 9 out of 10 households getting tax cuts, increases in payments, increases in the pension. 7 million Australian households won't see a cent lost through carbon pricing, and for those at the lower income ends we are going to provide a safety net, a buffer, because we understand they are the ones with the least manoeuvrability in their budgets, so they will be provided with 20% more than the expected impact of the carbon price.
HOST: Which is what happened under the CPRS?
PM: Well you'll be able to see all of the details of the tax cuts and payment increases when we do the package, and Lyndal, importantly you will be able to see exactly where the money is coming from. It's coming from the big polluters.
HOST: You mentioned cost of living. Australia has low unemployment, jobs growth in the hundreds of thousands over the last few years, relatively low interest rates, higher wages and as your Treasurer is so fond of pointing out, the economy is healthier than other developed nations. Why are political leaders like you spending so much time talking about how tough it is for people? Is that the reality, or are you feeling a pain that compared to other countries isn't really there?
PM: Our economy is the envy of the world. We've come out of the global financial crisis strong with the benefits of employment for Australians. That's a good thing - that's a great thing. We are seeing a resources boom with huge investment projects, multi-billion dollar projects like Gorgon in Western Australia coming on stream. This is great for creating jobs for the future.
HOST: But are people really feeling cost of living pressures when they're in work, the economy's going reasonably well. Are those pressures real or are you talking it up because it's bad politics to acknowledge that people are doing relatively well?
PM: No, those pressures are real. So, macro economy – we are the envy of the world with strong job creation now and big investments materialising before our eyes like Gorgon, like some of the huge projects in Queensland. I went to one myself at Curtis Island just outside Gladstone, a huge project coming on stream and creating jobs.
But in households around the country, round the kitchen table, people are looking at the bills, are looking at the cost of living and are finding it pretty tough. That's why we've provided assistance to work with families: tax cuts; our education tax rebate, including helping you cover things like cost of school uniforms; child care tax rebate [AUDIO BREAK] are now being paid fortnightly so you don't have to wait to the end of the year to get your money back.
These things do make a difference for households, and then as we price carbon we will, in a Labor way as a Labor government, be pitching our assistance package, our tax cuts and payment increases so they help people who need that helping hand the most, and 9 out of 10 households are going to see dollars available to them.
HOST: Finally, the asylum seeker swap deal with Malaysia's yet to be finalised, but when you joined the Labor party, as you made your way through, did you think you would ever be arguing that it's a good thing to be tougher on asylum seekers than the Coalition?
PM: Whatever stage I've been at in my political career I've always thought it was a good thing to protect Australia's borders. There's nothing more important to being a national leader than getting national security questions right and of course we need to have strong border protection and we are providing that. We've got [AUDIO BREAK] assets patrolling our borders than ever before.
HOST: But as we've seen in recent TV programs, a program on SBS and Four Corners last night, there's another side to the refugee story about people fleeing atrocity, about the fact that when you go to refugee camps there's really no such thing as an orderly queue. Is it right as a Labor Prime Minister to be arguing that you're tougher than the Coalition?
PM: As a Labor Prime Minister I think you can have both a hard head and a soft heart. A hard head – I don't want to see people arriving here on boats unauthorised. A soft heart – I don't want to see children getting on boats and then have people watch them drown on the shores of Christmas Island, and I don't want to see refugees who have been processed, who are genuine refugees, languishing for decades before they get a resettlement opportunity.
So, the package we have put together around Malaysia, yes, it's tough. It's going to send the toughest possible message to people smugglers- you can't ply your evil trade anymore. But yes, it also is humanitarian. We're hoping it will stop people getting on boats and risking their lives, and we'll also take 4,000 more genuine refugees from Malaysia.
So, if people's hearts have been moved by some of the footage they've seen of refugees waiting years and years and years for resettlement opportunities, what they'll see is 4,000 more of those people get a new life and a new chance in our country.
HOST: Prime Minister, thank you very much for your time.
PM: Thanks Lyndal.