HOST: Prime Minister Julia Gillard joins me now. Prime Minister thanks for joining us. We had one of our big guns of politics Tony Burke on the show two weeks ago saying the deal is imminent. Now Bob Brown is saying it's a long way away. Are you frustrated by this?
PM: We are working as hard as we can, Kochie, so no I'm not frustrated. I'm determined to get every detail of this package right. And yes, it's taking some time but pricing carbon is the right thing to do to tackle climate change. And Kochie, I'm well aware that these things can cause anxiety and I'm well aware there is a lot of concern out there and people want the details, but we are working hard and we will get there, Kochie, to price carbon.
HOST: When will we get the details? Can you tell us or do we have to wait for Bob Brown to tell us?
PM: Kochie you will hear from me and as soon as we can get the details right we will be giving them to you-
HOST: When?
PM: But I am going to announce a package that has every detail worked through so we can answer every question.
HOST: But you've got no idea when - weeks, months?
PM: Well I would adopt the language of weeks but we are working hard on this we will do it as soon as we can Kochie. I'm not going to delay an extra day. We are going to get this done and give people the details. And of course, the details will include the details of the tax cuts, the increases in family payments and the increases in pensions which will help people with cost of living pressure.
HOST: See it's fair to say you have lost us all, I think, because we have no idea where we are at the moment. We are all thoroughly sick of the carbon tax because it just seems to be a whole lot of hot air at the moment and so much speculation, it's getting ridiculous, it's confusing.
PM: Kochie I can give people some details which hopefully will help them understand the direction we are taking this package. We're of course going to get polluters to pay the price of polluting. At the moment they can put carbon pollution in the atmosphere for absolutely nothing so why wouldn't you put it up there and up there and up there? We're going to say big polluters pay a price and because they pay a price they're smart business people, they will say how can I reduce that price, by making my production processes cleaner?
So the 1,000 big polluters will pay and then we're going to use that money to assist households. Nine out of 10 households will get a tax cut or a combination of an increase in family payments or an increase in pension. That is 7 million Australian households getting a tax cut or payment increase. And Kochie, today I can tell you too, three million of the lower income households will get a safety net buffer of 20 per cent more than the expected impact on them of the flow through of the carbon price, because we understand they are the ones with the tightest budgets and most at risk.
HOST: I can understand the theory of it, that you tax big polluters so they are forced to put up their prices which make it more expensive for us, which will change our habits, 'cause hopefully we will buy something that has a renewable energy base, an alternative that doesn't have alternative that doesn't have a bigger carbon footprint. But if you are compensating nine out of 10 families to cover that, how does it change my behaviour to go greener because you are actually subsidising me, I don't need to make that decision?
PM: Well the people whose behaviour we principally want to change are the 1,000 big polluters. So they're-
HOST: But they will put prices up, to me. The only way to change their behaviour is to change the behaviour of the customers who say ‘I don't want your product or service anymore because it's now too expensive because you put the prices up'.
PM: Kochie I think polluters will change their behaviour. If you put a price on carbon, they will work out how to generate less carbon. So they won't just flow costs through. We are in a competitive world, if one of their competitors moves and says I can do this cleaner, I can do it greener and therefore I can do it cheaper, that is going to force other competitors to move as well. So they will look at their production processes, they will look at where they get energy from they will look to do things cleaner and greener. So the price on pollution will impact on behaviour there.
But Kochie, in terms of individual behaviour and it's a good point you've raised with me, we will be providing the assistance that I've talked about. So the vast majority of households won't lose a cent. Now they will be able to go on buying exactly the same things they but today and not lose a cent or they can choose to buy greener things which will be cheaper things and keep a bit of extra money in their pockets for something else that they want.
HOST: Ok. But we are weeks away of getting any detail on this, so it's still all talk.
PM: It's going to happen, Kochie. So it's something that I'm determined to do for this nation's future. I understand this isn't necessarily instantly popular. I understand it's a tough decision, but it's the right decision.
People believe climate change is real. They want us to do something effective. The most effective thing we can do is put a price on the big polluters, get them to pay and they will work out how to reduce their carbon pollution. I want to look after families on the way through; that's why 9 out of 10 Australian households are going to get a tax or some other form of assistance.
HOST: Alright Julia Gillard, thank you very much for joining us. We will be following it, as usual. Thank you.
PM: Thanks, Kochie.