HOST: Good afternoon to you Prime Minister
PM: Good afternoon Ben.
HOST: Where do I find you at the moment?
PM: I'm on the road from Campbelltown, I've been out there at a wonderful service, it's called Yummy's Cafe, and it helps teenage parents get on a good path for life.
HOST: Ok now this is the reason you wanted to come on today because as we read on the front page of The Daily Telegraph today: tough on teen mums, teenage mums who refuse to return to school or into job training will lose parenting payments. What's the motivation for this?
PM: Well this is all about opportunity and responsibility, there are around 11,000 teen parents on parenting payment, and most of them, 80 per cent of them, haven't finished Year 12, so they left school early, many of them were in fact on welfare benefits before they became parents. So we want them engaged, we want them with a plan to further their education, to get that all important Year 12, and also a plan to make sure that their child gets the services they need. So we'll be getting them to engage with Centrelink, we're going to roll out youth services, we're going to do it in ten trial sites around the country, a lot of new opportunities for teen parents, but it comes with some responsibility to step up and do the right thing.
HOST: Ok you had a very important dinner last night at Kirribilli House, you were hosting business and industry leaders to try and win them over on the carbon tax. How'd you go?
PM: Look I think this is all been a little bit hyped up, I have meetings all day every day, I do a lot of meetings, speak to a lot of people, and I very regularly speak to business leaders about economic issues and about carbon pricing so last night's dinner was another discussion in many discussions about pricing carbon. It's always a good thing to do, to make sure you're listening to people, talking to people, genuinely sharing views, that's how I lead, by trying to bring people together.
HOST: Ok I described it on air yesterday as a desperation dinner, and I also suggested that I think that the carbon tax is probably never going to happen based on not only the feeling out there in the community but also the reaction of a lot of your backbenchers who say, I mean we heard today from Graham Perrett, the Member for Moreton, who says 80 per cent of constituents who contacted his office in March and April opposed the tax. If you're really listening to people aren't people saying ‘we don't want it'?
PM: Well Ben I don't want to argue with you but you're dead wrong on both, dead wrong the description of last night's dinner and dead wrong on your call about carbon pricing, we will get this done. And you're referring to statements of one of our backbenchers, Graham Perrett, what you haven't mentioned is that he's gone on to talk about how he supports pricing carbon and how it's his view that the community will ultimately make up their mind when they've got all the details which will happen in the middle of this year.
HOST: Sure so at the moment, at the moment, you are losing that battle in selling your message.
PM: Well Ben I'm not going to agree with all of this sort of imagery, what we've done is we've said to the community we need to tackle climate change, it's real and overwhelmingly Australians agree with that, they do want to tackle climate change. And then we've said best way to do that is to price carbon, here's how the mechanism should work and people have looked at that and said ‘I am a bit anxious' and I understand that. Now we will answer that anxiety by giving people all of the details in the middle of the year, they'll be able to sit down and work out exactly what it means for them, and remember we will be providing generous household assistance.
HOST: Ok let's move away from the imagery and let's go to the cold hard facts here. As you know, when you announced this, obviously the first reaction from people was ‘well hang on a moment, she's broken a big promise here because Julia Gillard went before the last election, just a couple of days before, and very clearly said there would be no carbon tax under a government that she leads.' That was obviously the first problem. Then all of a sudden you'd know that on say this radio station for example, 2GB, that a lot of people, I mean we've never had so much feedback from people saying that we don't want this thing and we can't believe it's being brought it, but the worrying thing for you now is the fact that we read in Newspoll yesterday that it's the 35 to 49 age group, the group that most likely have families and mortgages, this group has overtaken older voters as the group most opposed to the carbon tax. Isn't that fatal?
PM: Well Ben I don't spend any time worrying about myself or worrying about the polls that come and go, I spend a lot of time worrying about the future of this country, and I've always believed that climate change was real and I've always believed that the best way of cutting the carbon pollution in our atmosphere is to put a price on it, because if we price it then the big businesses that generate the most pollution, and this is a price that will be paid by 1000 big businesses, those businesses will innovate, they'll find a way of doing what they do and creating less carbon pollution. So that's what is driving me, making sure we have less carbon pollution in our atmosphere, and we have the kind of change in our economy we need to be a prosperous clean energy economy for the future.
HOST: Sure but Prime Minister we know, I mean we all know the way these things work and as much as you say that you don't pay too much attention to polls, I mean polls have a huge impact on the way politics is decided and driven these days. When you read those numbers, when you read that you know, when you've got 64 per cent against and 30 per cent in favour, at the moment you are losing this battle so how can, how is this all of a sudden going to turn around, is it when the detail comes in, is it when you say ‘oh look we'll give you compensation, this is how much compensation you'll receive in return' and why are these policies announced before the detail is thrown out there?
PM: Well Ben it seems to me, as Prime Minister, what you've got to do is work out what you think is the best thing for the country, what you believe in. I believe in climate change, I believe in pricing carbon so I'm determined to get it done-
HOST: But Prime Minister you didn't believe in a carbon tax just a couple of days before the last election.
PM: Well Ben let's be 100 per cent clear about that. I've also believed in climate change being real, I've always believe in pricing carbon. There are two ways for pricing carbon: one's a market based system called an emissions trading scheme and before the last election I did talk to the Australian community about our need to have such a scheme. Another way of doing it is having a carbon tax, now I said to Australian community I want us to have an emissions trading scheme, well in the Parliament the Australian people voted for, to get to that emissions trading scheme, we will have a period of a fixed price. So in the Parliament people voted for, that's the way we can get this done, we'll get it done and we will get to what I always talked to the Australian community about: an emissions trading scheme.
HOST: Sure but the wording of what I just said before is you didn't believe in a carbon tax just a couple of days before the last election, you can't escape that can you?
PM: Out of the various mechanisms for pricing carbon, I certainly in the last election campaign said to the Australian people I think an emissions trading scheme's the right way to do this, not a carbon tax. In the Parliament that the Australian people have voted for, we'll get to that emissions trading scheme, but we'll do it by having a period where we have a fixed price. So I'm getting it done, and as I've said before, the analogy here is you probably drive home from your radio station every night, if you find your path blocked one day, you're not just going to sit there for the rest of your life, you're going to find a different way home. Well I'm finding a different way to the objective that this nation needs, which is to cut carbon pollution with an emissions trading scheme.
HOST: One last one on this obviously you need to take people with you on this at the moment and at the moment they are just not with you and I know that Mark Latham, used to be a friend of yours, he's not longer and I know that he sprouts a lot of stuff that wouldn't be based in common sense, however he did say on Sky News the other night, I heard him, and he said he's not seen an issue like this before where people have run away from it so quickly and he says even people he bumps into today and talks to today, he said they are sceptical, they are cynical about it and he says he doesn't talk to anyone who says right now they want a carbon tax.
PM: Well all I can say to that Ben is if you believe in something then you keep pursuing the argument, perseverance-
HOST: But the problem for you Prime Minister, I know I keep hammering it home, I know I keep hammering it home, but the problem for you-
PM: All of the detail.
HOST: The problem for you on this, Prime Minister, and as you know, I know I keep repeating it to you, but you say when you believe in something, you didn't believe in the carbon tax just a couple of days before the last election, you have to admit that from a sell point of view, from a marketing point of view, that's an issue for you.
PM: Well Ben let's just go through it again. I didn't intend to mislead anyone, I was saying very frankly to the Australian community I believe climate change is real, I believed that before the election, I believe that talking to you today. I believe the best way of dealing with climate change is to reduce carbon pollution by putting a price on it, I've always believed that. There are various ways of putting a price on it, my preference is for an emissions trading scheme and we will get there.
HOST: Ok just onto another issue, it was revealed on Ray Hadley's program about this homemade bomb device at Villawood detention centre, Chris Bowen your Immigration Minister says that he's annoyed that his Department didn't inform him about this even though it happened some time ago. Have you received a briefing on this in the last 24 hours?
PM: Look I've spoken to the Minister for Immigration and I saw him yesterday afternoon, that was a regular discussion and meeting, and of course he was disappointed and concerned that he hadn't been advised by his Department.
HOST: Are you annoyed about that kind of thing happening under your Government where you have crucial things going on, particularly when you have a potential explosive found in a detention centre before there was a massive fire and riots started, there may have been an opportunity there for people to say ‘let's let the Minister know about this because this thing could blow right up' and they're not even telling a bloke who is the Minister for Immigration.
PM: Certainly I am very disappointed by that, but Ben let's be frank and let's be clear, this isn't a party political issue if you like, Governments of all political persuasions have had times when they think the public service hasn't got the information they need as quickly as they need it, that's happened here, that's the wrong thing.
HOST: Sure so why are they ringing Ray Hadley and not ringing Chris Bowen?
PM: Well I can't explain why your caller made that choice, you'd have to ask them.
HOST: Ok on the East Timor solution just briefly, and I know that you are sticking to your guns on this despite since you announced it there have been very few people in East Timor, well not really anyone, who's indicated that it's going to happen. But President Jose Ramos-Horta has come out, I think, in the last five days, and said look he doesn't even think our two nations should have bilateral talks on this. Is it just time to admit on this, Prime Minister, that the East Timor solution was an idea that was floated and it hasn't got up and it's probably time to look at another one?
PM: We'll just keep working methodically as we do. All of this, let's remember the announcements I made and the things that I've spoken to the community about, people smuggling is a vile trade, it's profiting off human misery and I want to basically break the back of the people smugglers business, to take away from them the thing that they sell which gets them profit, now that's not easy to do and it can't be done by just endlessly wandering around repeating the same three word slogans, you've got to go through some hard work, working in the region, we've been doing that through the Bali Process for example and we'll continue to do it.
HOST: But don't people respect leaders who, and even business leaders, if you're in business and you're heading down a certain path and every indication is ‘no, red flags, red flags, it's not going to happen', don't people respect people who have that flexibility to go ‘no, you know what, we've hit a dead end here, I've got to onto another direction' as opposed to being stubborn and just keep on going because you don't want to admit. I mean I can tell you right now Prime Minister, I know it's no newsflash and you don't need to hear it from some talkback host on Sydney radio, but the East Timor solution's never going to happen, you surely know that.
PM: Well Ben in terms of leadership and finding different solutions, the words you've just used then are a summary of my argument about pricing carbon and I thank you for it, that's exactly what I've just described to you about an emissions trading scheme and what I've said about a carbon tax before the last election.
HOST: Ok, so are you going to admit that the East-
PM: Thank you for that, thank you for summarising that to your listeners.
HOST: Anytime.
PM: And Ben you're right, in this sense, people want to see us hard at work and achieving things and of course I'm determined to do that. In this area and every other area.
HOST: Ok so you're not willing to admit that the East Timor solution is never going to happen, do you want a little wager on it before you go?
PM: I'm not much of a betting person.
HOST: Alright listen my time is officially up, I've hit the 12 minute mark so thank you very much for sparing some time for us this afternoon on 2GB.
PM: Thanks Ben.
HOST: Have a safe drive.
PM: Thank you.