SATTLER: Hello, Prime Minister. How are you?
PM: Hello.
SATTLER: How does that sound?
PM: I think it sounds ok. What do you think?
SATTLER: Well, we would have said hello Julia a few weeks ago.
PM: Well, feel free to say hello Julia if you would prefer.
SATTLER: Right, well we're all cynics here. We're all cynics with an election around the corner.
PM: Really?
SATTLER: Well, you know what it's like.
PM: Oh, it's no cause for cynicism.
SATTLER: With politicians? You've got to be joking. When are you going to put us out of our misery? It is going to be August sometime, surely? I know what you're going to say, I can't speculate and all that sort of thing but when are you going to put us out of our misery?
PM: Howard, I was going to say you don't look miserable at all. You look very happy.
SATTLER: I am happy.
PM: Well, there's no misery then to worry about.
SATTLER: When are you going to tell us?
PM: Well we've got some things to do. Obviously, I've been in the job for two weeks now. First and foremost I wanted to deal with and resolve the issue with the minerals tax and we've done that. I made a major statement on asylum seeker questions on Tuesday. I said then that I have a plan for a regional processing centre. We would need to have dialogue with our region, we're doing that now. I was very pleased to have a conversation earlier in the week with the President of East Timor indicating a preparedness to be involved-
SATTLER: That doesn't count, it's the Government that counts, right?
PM: Yes, and I spoke earlier in the week to the President and he indicated a preparedness to have the conversation and today the Prime Minister of East Timor has said that he is prepared to have the conversation and to receive a concrete proposal -
SATTLER: But I heard you, in a news bulletin, only about half an hour ago, say you never gave the impression that East Timor was the place that you chose. But you did, didn't you?
PM: Well I can explain that Howard because on Tuesday, when I gave the speech, I indicated I had this plan for a regional processing centre that undercut the business model, the thing that people smugglers were selling. I said that I had had a conversation with the President of East Timor and we would be involved in dialogue with the region.
SATTLER: But you never mentioned any other country, apart from New Zealand and Indonesia, so -
PM: Absolutely, absolutely Howard. Absolutely agreeing with you. Today, on radio I was basically invited to unilaterally announce that there was going to be a regional processing country in a particular location. We're talking about sovereign countries here Howard and obviously I'm not going to unilaterally announce, on behalf of another nation what's going to happen in that nation -
SATTLER: No, but you did mention East Timor, you mentioned New Zealand, and you mentioned Indonesia.
PM: And I've mentioned all of that today.
SATTLER: Did you talk with any other countries?
PM: Well, Howard just step-by-step. Tuesday, I reported to the Australian people that I had this plan for a regional processing centre. I reported to the Australian people on my discussions with the Prime Minister of New Zealand and the President of East Timor. What I indicated then is that we would engage in further dialogue. It is not for me to unilaterally announce the location in another country. We're talking about sovereign nations.
SATTLER: But why mention any countries?
PM: Because I had a conversation with the President of East Timor and believed it was appropriate to indicate that he had said to me there was a preparedness to have the discussion with Australia. And then yesterday I did speak to the President of Indonesia and in what was a congratulatory telephone call also raised the issue with him and I've publicly reported that.
SATTLER: What's been his response?
PM: Well, obviously, he too would be looking forward to further dialogue. Then today on radio I was consistently challenged to, you know, unilaterally announce right now where is it going to be. The form of words running on your radio bulletin is from that interview.
SATTLER: Have you talked to anyone in Nauru or Manus Island?
PM: We are talking to signatories to the Refugee Convention, of which East Timor is one.
SATTLER: Would you rule Nauru or Manus Island out?
PM: I would rule out anywhere that is not a signatory to the Refugee Convention.
SATTLER: And they're not?
PM: Nauru is not a signatory to the Refugee Convention.
SATTLER: Papua New Guinea, Manus Island?
PM: Papua New Guinea, I believe, is a signatory to the Refugee Convention but obviously I am now going to build on the set of conversations that we've seen happen this week. The conversation with the President of East Timor. We've now seen the Prime Minister of East Timor today express some goodwill and ask for a concrete proposal so we will obviously now engage in that discussion.
SATTLER: I spoke with a former Prime Minister of East Timor yesterday and I want you to listen to what he has to say.
PM: Happy to.
DA SILVA: What I can tell you is that our party will not support it. And if it's happening we will campaign very hard in this country to reject it. Spoke to some Parliamentarians this morning on this issue because we were caught by surprise. The ones that I have spoken to, everyone seems to be completely shocked by what happened with this announcement. But, from the comments that I have received this morning from other Parliamentarians, it seems that they will reject it.
SATTLER: That's Estanislau da Silva, a former Prime Minister. What do you say to that?
PM: Well he's obviously got a different view from the current President and the current Prime Minister of East Timor.
SATTLER: He said he'd canvassed most of the Members and they don't want it.
PM: Well, look, he's got a different view from the current national leaders. You'd expect that in a democracy, Howard. Obviously, East Timor is a democracy and in a democracy people will have a variety of views.
SATTLER: What I want to know is if they knock it back, where will you go then?
PM: Well, step at a time. Had a conversation with the President. He said he was open to the idea. Obviously since then we've seen the serving, current Prime Minister of East Timor indicate that he is open to the idea and would want to see a more concrete proposal. Well, obviously we will engage in that dialogue and seek to build on that goodwill.
SATTLER: I want to quote something that the person called Julia Gillard said on 13th May 2003, and I quote:
Instead of stunts like this it's time the Howard Government faced up to engaging in a long-term solution in relation to refugees and asylum seekers. The so-called Pacific Solution is not a long-term solution. Can anyone in this place really imagine that Australia will be processing asylum seeker claims on Nauru in 10 to 12 years? Labor will end the so-called Pacific Solution of processing and detaining of asylum seekers on Pacific islands because it's costly, unsustainable and wrong as a matter of principal.
Now you've clearly, apart from the word 'Nauru' changed your mind about that.
PM: I haven't changed my mind about any of those words and I'd happily read that quote out and make it my words of today.
SATTLER: But wouldn't it be costly and unsustainable and wrong to put them on East Timor?
PM: No, the premise of your question is that what I am talking about is the same as the so-called Pacific Solution of the Howard Government and that is simply not true.
SATTLER: Only the names have been changed, haven't they?
PM: well, let me just describe what the differences are. The so-called Pacific Solution was conceived by the Howard Government in a rush. It was entered into unilaterally, it was never going to be sustained as a long-term solution. What they were doing was looking for a quick political fix.
What I am talking about is a regional processing centre which would help the region deal with the question of irregular people movement. We are not the only nation that has got concerns about irregular people movement. Indeed, East Timor has had these concerns itself. So what would be a long-lasting solution is, if we get the right kind of regional cooperation, you would undercut the thing that people smugglers sell. They sell the prospect that if you get to a certain place such as Australia then you will get to stay. If we replace that and said no, wherever you end up you'll go back to the same regional processing centre, your claims will be assessed fairly, if you're found to be a genuine refugee then nations like ours and New Zealand will take a fair share. If we did that we would undercut-
SATTLER: Well why not take them to Indonesia?
PM: Well, just one second. We would undercut what people smugglers sell. Indonesia has indicated - and this is of course the great fallacy about Mr Abbott's slogan of 'Turn the boats around' - Indonesia has said that it will not take returned boats. And of course we know this slogan is just a slogan because what actually happens at sea is that boats are scuttled and the choice you face is whether you let people drown, children drown, or you go and rescue them with all of the risk that that entails to defence force and border protection command personnel. So Mr Abbot's got the slogan. I am working and engaged in delivering a long-term solution and I do thank the Prime Minister of East Timor for the goodwill he's shown today.
SATTLER: So back on the map, alright. Now I promised our listeners that you'd take talkback. Which your predecessor wouldn't, by the way.
PM: Very happy to.
SATTLER: Refused to take talkback. So let's go to the phones. The first caller is Barry of Mullaloo. The Prime Minister is listening, Barry.
CALLER: How are you Prime Minister?
PM: I'm very well thank you Barry.
CALLER: Tell me, we are a signatory to the United Nations Convention for Refugees?
PM: Yes, we are.
CALLER: And we are a democracy?
PM: Yes, we are.
CALLER: We decide what happens in our country?
PM: Of course we do.
CALLER: Then why is it so that when these refugees arrive we can't take them and put them back in the refugee camps which are run by the United Nations and let them apply for refugee status through the normal channels and not queue-jump other people that have been waiting there for years?
PM: Well, we don't do that at the moment because we've got no agreements which would enable that to happen. What I'm talking about with the regional processing centre is effectively the kind of thing you sound like you want, where there is an agreed way of dealing with irregular people movement across the region, a regional processing centre that serves that role. And from countries around the region, when they had irregular people movement, would look to the regional processing centre to process claims fairly and expeditiously and then developed nations like our own would obviously look to taking a fair share of the genuine refugees.
SATTLER: Alright. Dean of High Wycombe, hello.
CALLER: Hello. Hi Prime Minister. I've just got a question with regards to a statement that you made recently regarding same-sex relationships and that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that's the belief of your party. Why is it, if that is your belief and the Party's belief, why is it that when same-sex couples make claims for things like Centrelink and other things, the relationship has to be disclosed and then they're assessed as a couple, yet as a normal Australian taxpayer, our relationship isn't recognised? Surely the Commonwealth can't have two bites of the cherry?
PM: Well I think the perspective I've taken, the perspective that the Government has taken, is that the Marriage Act should stay in its current form. So it should say, as it does say now, that marriage is between a man and a woman. But what we have done is we have equalised treatment across Federal legislation. Now that has benefits and sometimes it's got burdens but it puts people in the same position that they would be as a heterosexual couple.
So to give an example of a benefit, before we started this equal treatment under the law, if you had a gay couple, one had a superannuation policy with a death benefit and that partner died, then the remaining partner had difficulties accessing the benefit because of the way superannuation law was. We have resolved those sorts of problems.
SATTLER: Right just before our next caller, you also made the statement I think, do you think you've solved the problem with the mining tax, do you reckon?
PM: Well look I think overwhelmingly we found the right balance-
SATTLER: With four companies.
PM: Well just a moment. We've entered a Heads of Agreement with the biggest miners in this country, obviously the blockbuster companies like Rio and BHP. Yes, there are some miners who still have concerns but we have a process chaired by Don Argus, a former head of BHP, to work through these issues. I believe that we've found a balance which enables us to do what we said we wanted to do, which is get Australians a fairer share of the mineral wealth in their ground -
SATTLER: But would it disturb you to know that the Australian Mining and Exploration Council, which represents I think 110 members, they're small miners mainly, and a hundred service companies, have not been officially consulted yet?
PM: Well we negotiated with the biggest miners in this country and entered a Heads of Agreement. Now of course we've got the process involving Don Argus. But I believe, having sat around the table with the biggest miners in this country, that we found a way forward, that mining companies can keep going forward with certainty about tax and -
SATTLER: Big mining companies.
PM: Well mining companies, because of course many of the concerns of small miners were brought to the table by these mining companies.
SATTLER: Were you going to talk with the AMEC people?
PM: There's a process there involving Don Argus, a former head of BHP. In terms of how we've restructured the tax, of course now with it applying to coal and iron, there are many miners who are now not subject to these new tax arrangements. There's also an exemption for smaller miners so in terms of the numbers of companies involved it's really come right in to a very limited number.
SATTLER: Neil of Lake Grace is a farmer I think, hello Neil.
CALLER: Yeah hello Howard. Good afternoon Prime Minister.
PM: Good afternoon.
CALLER: My question to you is what are you going to do for struggling wheat farmers who in my area alone have lost 35 per cent equity in their farms in the past two years because we cannot keep producing for below the cost of production?
PM: Right, well obviously -
SATTLER: That one came out of left field.
PM: Yeah, look, as a Government we do support our agricultural industry with drought relief and other forms of assistance. You would need to just explain a little bit more to me why you're in the position where your costs are more than the price that you're getting for your produce.
CALLER: Well, it's been happening for far too long, Prime Minister. Our costs in fertiliser, particularly in the last two years, have absolutely skyrocketed.
PM: Right.
CALLER: The price of grain has gone south, and the farm consultant that I use assures me that the average loss in his area last year was between $400,000 and $500,000, and I can tell you in all honesty, Prime Minister, I'm average.
PM: Right, well look I understand that you're desperately concerned and that you're really suffering under these pressures. And I think life on the land can be very hard and people obviously sometimes leave farming because they find that they don't want to bear those pressures anymore. It might be more than they or their families want to deal with. As a Government, we obviously have forms of assistance, income support and other things that people can qualify for.
SATTLER: Alright, moving on. Paul of Wembley, hello.
CALLER: Prime Minister, there is a lot of talk about the mining tax and all that but I can assure you that lots of Western Australians are very passionate about the environment as well, and very concerned about what climate change could do to places like Ningaloo Reef and the Kimberley, maybe you can visit those places-
SATTLER: [inaudible] swim with a whale shark.
CALLER: That's right. It's an incredible coastline and climate change could really wreak havoc with it, so we're just disappointed and concerned that you may delay getting a price on carbon...
SATTLER: I'll just jump in there, Paul, what did you think also - and the Prime Minister might like to comment on this - Martin Ferguson allowing oil exploration off Margaret River?
CALLER: Oh, very concerned about that-
SATTLER: It's certainly a big issue, I can tell you.
CALLER: Yeah, LNG plants for the Kimberley coast. I mean there is a lot of things happening in the state but the ALP seems to be delaying its commitment on climate change, and I 'm just wondering why you can't get a price on carbon when you get back into government, if you do?
SATTLER: We'll get an answer for you Paul.
PM: Well, Paul, the answer is I believe climate change is real, I believe it is caused by human activity, and I believe as a nation we are up to dealing with this challenge. We do need to have a price on carbon. We'll get that price on carbon when there's a deep community consensus about having that price. We want to make sure that the community is included in this discussion.
SATTLER: But why would your Government be approving more oil exploration? Do you agree with President Obama we should stop being so dependent on oil?
PM: Obviously, we want to look to energy sources of the future, energy sources in terms of new ways of powering motor vehicles, solar energy, renewable resources-
SATTLER: Not oil?
PM: We are big investors in actually bringing on new technology, including solar -
SATTLER: But would you in government review that decision, to allow oil exploration off Margaret River?
PM: Well, obviously when there's a -
SATTLER: You are in government!
PM: Right, well obviously when there is a suggestion about oil exploration or mining of any kind, environmental impacts are worked through, there is a very clear process to do that under Federal legislation, so of course we take into account environmental concerns.
SATTLER: Mohammed, hello.
CALLER: Hello, Howard Sattler. Hello Prime Minister Julia Gillard, how are you today?
PM: I'm good, thank you.
CALLER: Prime Minister this is a good time for this country, I'm really happy to see you are Prime Minister a woman in this country, Prime Minister.
PM: Thank you very much.
SATTLER: Your wife will be very happy about that, Mohammed. Go on.
CALLER: Prime Minister, '07 Australia voted out of John Howard because of Pacific Solution. Children in the Woomera detention centre. People self-harming. All this, we said no. Is this the same situation, Prime Minister, that we are going, the same policy again?
PM: No, we're going forward to a new policy, a different policy, and something that I think gives us a lasting solution for the region. This is not the same policy as the Howard Government policy, which was adopted very quickly, adopted unilaterally, was never going to be a long-term solution. I am taking a very different approach.
SATTLER: Well, I started out today talking about politicians and how we're cynical about them. You're opponent today admitted he sometimes gilds the lily, because he is a politician, and particularly at election time. Do you sometimes do that? Have you ever done that?
PM: Well, I'm not surprised about that from Tony Abbott because we had on display during the 7.30 Report a little while back his very clear statement that the only time you should believe him is when he's working off carefully scripted remarks because the rest of the time, particularly under pressure, he might say anything. I am not of the same ilk, I do my best to -
SATTLER: But during election campaigns you must have gilded the lily a bit to try and get votes?
PM: Look, I try my best to be frank with people, and you can't always tell people what they want to hear. I understand that. I actually think Australians are up to having pretty robust conversations. I think I started a pretty robust conversation on Tuesday about asylum seekers. Would have been easy for me, in fact possibly conventional political wisdom, to not engage in that issue, but I believed in the interests of the nation we needed to take some further steps to effectively manage our borders. I believed I should explain to the Australian people the actual facts about asylum seekers and I did that. And I also believed it was inappropriate for me to leave unchallenged Tony Abbott simply putting forward a slogan he knows he can't deliver.
SATTLER: Alright, how important is the survival of the Labor Party in government to you? Is that paramount?
PM: What's paramount for me is what happens in this nation, my values drive me in terms of doing this job, they drove me into politics and what I don't want to see is I don't want to see this nation go back-
SATTLER: So the Party doesn't come first?
PM: Look you get involved. I got involved in the Party because of my values and my view about what should happen in this country. I got involved in active politics because I absolutely believed it's the fundamental right of every child to get a great education. That's what drives me Howard. You asked, that's the answer.
SATTLER: Is this your last trip to Perth before you call the election?
PM: Howard I've got some governing to do, I'm doing that now -
SATTLER: She won't fall in. She's not going to fall in.
PM: I am a regular visitor to Perth and I'm always happy to be here, even when it's wet like it is today.
SATTLER: Oh sorry about that.
PM: No the rain's a good thing.
SATTLER: Thanks for coming in. Talk to you again during the campaign.
PM: Thank you