4BC Drive
HOST: I had this lengthy discussion with the Prime Minister earlier today, have a listen to this and it will tell you I think I certainly learnt a fair bit about this so called regional solution, here is a bit of that chat with PM Julia Gillard. I started by saying G'day.
PM: Hi, how are you?
HOST: Not bad. I am going to get Tony Abbott to put a dollar in the swear jar every time he says 'um' or 'ah', will you do it every time you say 'obviously'?
PM: Well I will obviously try and do that, obviously.
HOST: Good on you. The impression given to the Australian people is that this processing centre will be in East Timor, in Dili, and you haven't spoken with the government of Timor Leste prior to announcing it to the Australian people. It's redolent of the mining tax - make the announcement and then go into the negotiations afterwards.
PM: Well once again, with respect, and obviously I'm happy to be judged on what I say, and what I said in the speech was not that. I did not say that - I said what I just summarised to you now - that there was no quick fix, that there would need to be discussions across the region. These are the exact words that appear in the speech: no quick fix, would need to be discussions. I have had some discussions and, you know, there was more to follow, that this would take process, it would take time, it would take method, it would take engagement, and we've started that engagement now with our officials in the region working with regional neighbours and partners. I did outline a vision and the vision was for a regional processing centre, and that is important because it completely undercuts the people smuggling market because they no longer have a product to sell.
HOST: So where would it be?
PM: I'm not going to leave undisturbed the impression that I made an announcement about a specific location, which is how you phrased your question.
HOST: Where will it be then? Where will it be?
PM: Well, we will have the discussions I've just outlined and they have started already, in addition in that....
HOST: - Yeah, but where will it be?
PM: Well, this will have to emerge from the work with our regional neighbours -
HOST: So you don't know?
PM: It's exactly why I said there would be no quick fix and anybody who is trying to pretend to you that there is a quick fix on the question of asylum seekers and people movement is simply not telling you the truth.
HOST: Do you know where your regional processing centre will be?
PM: What I've said is this consensus about a regional processing centre, where it would be, how it would work, all of those things would need to come out of the regional dialogue. What I'm saying to you now is absolutely nothing new. That is what I said on Tuesday in the speech that I gave.
HOST: Have you got a plan?
PM: Well, clearly, I've got a vision for what would undercut the people smuggling trade to our country, and I will be pursuing that. A question of a regional processing centre has been in regional dialogue in the past through the Bali Process and other things -
HOST: So you've got a vision?
PM: What is new is the fact that I have commenced the discussions on it and I've got a determination to get it done.
HOST: You didn't answer the question though - have you got a plan?
PM: Well, I've just outlined to you exactly what I'm doing.
HOST: Which is a vision.
PM: Well, with respect, what I just said to you is I've obviously got this plan about a regional processing centre and we are pursuing it already through discussions. I've got a determination to get it done. And I obviously announced a series of other things in my speech...
HOST: Hang on a second PM. Hang on there because you made a point, you have a plan about a regional processing centre but you can't tell me where it will be?
PM: Well this is what needs to emerge from the discussions with our regional partners, exactly what I said on Tuesday, nothing new, no grand revelation here. Have a read of Tuesday's speech and you'll find it all right there.
HOST: I've got it in front of me.
PM: What I'm saying to you now is exactly the same as what I said in that speech and I think that should be acknowledged.
HOST: Righto, well 14 minutes past three is the time. I recorded about 30 minutes with the Prime Minister and you will hear that during the remainder of the show this afternoon, but I would love you views on that or your questions for the alternative Prime Minister Tony Abbott. Tony, G'day again.
[BREAK TO OTHER PROGRAMMING]
HOST: Hey look you said you were loyal to Kev. You were jointly responsible for the major decisions and the policies and then Kev got knifed when he trusted you. Tell me why we should trust you?
PM: Well I believe that I was a loyal deputy to Kevin Rudd, I was vice captain of the team. I obviously take my fair share of the responsibility for the decisions of the government, but I did form the view that whilst we'd been a good government, we'd lost our way and we needed to fix that in the interests of the nation and that did require me to step up as Prime Minister so I took what was a very very tough decision and it's obviously been a very difficult period for Kevin Rudd and his family. Very difficult.
HOST: Are you loyal?
PM: Well I believe I was a very loyal deputy to Kevin Rudd. I think people who have watched my political career would say that I've been a loyal person to people I've worked with in politics you know Simon Crean and others. What was really pressing upon me was the need to get the government focused, get it back on track. That's in the interests of the nation and obviously I also wanted the Government to be in the best possible shape to fight the election because I don't want to see this country go back under Mr Abbott to things like Work Choices.
HOST: Just on this issue of trust PM, because last time you and I spoke it was about the mining tax and you told Laurie Oakes on Channel 9 and then you backed it up with me, that the miners pay, you say if we look at company tax now for domestic miners they pay 17 per cent. For the overseas companies, the multi-nationals it's around 13 per cent. Now that was just manifestly wrong. Did you get bad advice or were you gilding the lily?
PM: Well I always try and give the right figures on questions that I'm asked about. Anybody can make an error. I'm not saying I've never made an error in my life but I was trying to -
HOST: That's pretty egregious though PM.
PM: Well I was giving figures that had been supplied to me. The basic proposition here when I spoke to you last time and indeed today the basic proposition is, you know, is it appropriate to have an arrangement where Australians get a fairer share from the mineral wealth in our grounds and I'm pleased that we've been able to strike an agreement -
HOST: OK, that's the mining agreement, the tax-
PM: Well, I think that's actually the important thing-
HOST: I don't. With respect, PM, I think it's your credibility. You went on Channel 9 on the Today Sunday show-
PM: Can I just finish that point because I think, if you want to talk about questions of credibility, what I said consistently about the mining tax is that I thought there were some points of agreement in this debate. I thought that, in fact, the mining industry and the Government were agreeing that they could pay more tax and that a profits-based tax was a better way forward. Now, the debate got bogged down in a lot of, you know, some name calling, some conversations that lacked respect and goodwill. What I did as Prime Minister was got the goodwill back into that debate by cancelling the ads on TV, and I was able to build on that goodwill and the points of agreement to get the breakthrough that you've seen, which means we will get a fairer share but also the mining industry can go forward with confidence. I think that's all about, you know, who I am and questions of credibility and how I work.
HOST: Righto, well let's just go to what you told Laurie Oakes and then a few days later what you told me, and they're quite specific hard numbers. In fact, you said, "It's really about the facts, Laurie, that's all we want the Australian people to have, the facts, and these are the cold hard facts, the truth. 17 per cent company tax for domestic miners, 13 - one three - per cent for multinationals. Now subsequently Rio Tinto has put out releases to the exchange that said it's 35 per cent, and you said to the public that it was 13 per cent. How can we trust you?
PM: Well, look, there were- can I just say in relation to that debate, that it did get pretty heated. There were-
HOST: Is that an excuse for falsities?
PM: No, and I'm not putting that to you, I'm not putting that to you at all and I certainly wouldn't put that. I think that's a completely crazy-
HOST: Then how did you get it so wrong when you said it was the cold hard facts, the truth?
PM: If you let me finish the sentence then I'm happy to give you an explanation but in order to explain it, I've got to be able to talk. And the explanation is that during that debate there were a lot of figures put out, both by the Government and by mining companies. Often, they were talking not about exactly the same thing. So there were figures that were not apples to apples comparison. And we can go along and painfully through all the figures, but what it boils down to, and what really matters I think - for the nation, for the mining industry, for mining communities, for all of us - is that we're able now to go forward with confidence, with mining companies, the biggest mining companies - you mentioned Rio, for example - saying that the new tax arrangements they can work with and it's a new tax arrangement that gets Australians a fairer share.
HOST: I just don't know how you could go on a national TV show and mislead us so, try to tell us that when you consider the facts 13 per cent company tax from multinational companies and that's turned out to be so wrong.
PM: Well, I've rejected the premise of your question. I was using figures that were supplied to me-
HOST: By whom?
PM: -through our economic advisers in government, through our Treasury and the like, and then often some of the contrasts in the public debate were not contrasts on exactly the same footing. So you know, it's a technical area where it's easy for figures to be about company tax, to be about royalties, for figures to vary - but we worked our way through all of that, we worked our way through it respectfully and with goodwill - sitting around the table with representatives of some of the nation's most important mining companies and we got to a solution.