PRICE: Morning Prime Minister.
PM: Good morning Steve, thanks for having me on the program.
PRICE: I couldn't escape the ad break there. We were either going to finish it with a Minerals Council ad or one from your own Government, they're everywhere.
PM: There's a debate on at the moment, I take it?
PRICE: There is a little bit of a debate on. Rio Tinto's Australian Managing Director, David Peever, said last night that he'd said there'd been much talk from the Government about wanting to sit down, but there'd been little substance to back that up, and he's asked you to sit down with him when you visit WA this week. Will you?
PM: Oh look, with Mr Peever, I don't conduct those sort of consultations across the media. I think the thing to say Steve is that all of these companies have been involved with the Australian Treasury in Canberra, going through the details of their individual company circumstances. And secondly, there's been quite a lot of engagement at a Ministerial level through the Resources Minister Martin Ferguson, through the Treasurer Wayne Swan and also, when a whole bunch of these folk were in Canberra last week, including a representative of Rio, I sat down with them myself.
So I think that's a bit wide of the mark. Certainly when I'm in Perth, where I'll be going later today, I'm sure I'll catch up with various folk from the mining industry as well.
PRICE: So the time for negotiation is over? Or there is still an open window for you to make serious changes to the way this tax is going to be implemented?
PM: Steve, if you go to the core of what we're on about, we've said that we believe this tax reform plan of ours has got the rate right. We think we also have said from the very beginning that we'll be talking to the mining industry about details, about implementation, and about generous transition arrangements. And all those consultations and negotiations continue to be underway. There's a big campaign by the mining industry. You know it as well as I do. What I note, interestingly overnight though Steve is that folks live Clive Palmer and even Xstrata, the big coal company - a lot of assets in Queensland - have been forced to admit in effect they've been exaggerating their claims in recent times.
There's going to be a lot of exaggerated claims and threats, because let's face it, some of the very biggest mining companies don't want to pay more tax, whereas we're on about tax reform to keep our economy strong for the long term, by using the revenue that comes from this new arrangement with these most profitable mining companies to fund, first of all, reduced company tax rates for all Australian companies. Secondly, to make sure that all the small businesses listening to your program this morning get a tax break and a tax cut as well. And thirdly, to boost our national savings by making sure that every worker gets an increase in their superannuation payments from 9 percent to 12 percent, which if you're 30 years old, and you're on about 50 grand at present, means that you'll be retiring with an extra $108,000. I mean, this is a significant reform.
PRICE: Do you concede that this is now hurting the Government? And do you concede that some of your own backbenchers are getting very nervous? We had Gary Gray, the former ALP National Secretary, asked about your plunge in polling, said quote: "It's very, very difficult to get back from these situations. Howard lived in a dream that he could. Keating lived in a dream that he could." But he says it's very hard to get back, and he lays this firmly at the feet of the mistakes you've made in not implementing policies you've promised, plus this mining tax.
PM: Well, the business of leadership for our country is very, very difficult and always has been.
PRICE: But this is also about political survival for you as a person, isn't it?
PM: Well let's see, but the key responsibility I've been handed by the Australian people is to keep the economy strong, and to make sure that families also get a fairer share.
PRICE: But you don't want to go down in history as a one term Prime Minister, surely?
PM: But in keeping- but let me just go back to the core point here- keeping the economy strong means taking some difficult decisions. Remember, we got bagged mercilessly a year or two ago by saying that we needed to use economic stimulus to keep the Australian economy afloat. We were bagged and attacked because of debt and deficit. What's the result of that? Together with the work of the community and the business sector, we kept the Australian economy from going into recession.
Furthermore, what we've done is done so by making sure also that we've got the lowest debt and the lowest deficit of all the major advanced economies, but the business of economic reform doesn't stop there. You've got to build for the future, and make sure that you're able to make sure our companies remain globally competitive, which is why we're bringing down the company tax rate.
PRICE: Are you happy to lose office on a point of principle?
PM: Well the key thing is to be out there doing the right thing for the country in the long term. The Government of course, like any Government -
PRICE: But is doing the right thing for the country losing office on a point of principle?
PM: Well as I said, no Government is perfect. I've never claimed that in relation to the one that I lead, either. But getting it right in the economy long term is important, and I'm pretty confident at the end of the day, Steve, that people will make their judgment.
PRICE: You said yesterday you had to work harder, how could you possibly work harder? I mean you apparently, if what we read is correct- you lose staff hand over fist because you work too hard.
PM: The, I think when you're elected to political office, people expect that you're going to work hard, and I certainly do. And the people around me do too, and they're a fantastic team.
PRICE: But harder, how could you work harder?
PM: As do my Ministers. What I was going to go back to just before though, Steve, because you raised the question of elections - what are elections all about? It's about an alternative. On the polls that were published yesterday, if they are repeated on election day, you're right to say that Mr Abbott would be the Prime Minister. That brings into very sharp focus the alternatives between us, and between Mr Abbott. And for your listeners this morning, what's that mean?
Pretty basic, really. For the economy, we've kept it strong, Mr Abbott has no plan to return the Budget to surplus. Secondly, we got rid of WorkChoices, he wants to bring it back. We've increased spending on hospitals by 50 percent, Mr Abbott's already cut a billion dollars when he was Health Minister, and plans to do the same again. We're building education, and we're investing more in education and a new national curriculum. Mr Abbott says he's going to cut funding to education as well. These are pretty basic alternatives. So, an election's about that.
PRICE: But to bring this back, Prime Minister, a personal issue - you talk about working harder. It's reported that in Copenhagen you worked four days straight with one hour of sleep. That's just not smart, is it?
PM: Well first of all, I don't think that's accurate.
PRICE: That's not true?
PM: No, no, that's not true. We -
PRICE: I mean, this has all become very personal about you, hasn't it?
PM: But let me just go to the point you just made. We did work for a long time. We did work round the clock for an extended period of time. But you know something? So did Heads of Government from right around the world, because it was an important conference, we were trying to get it right. And at the end of that conference, it could've fallen apart completely with no agreement. What we did get was a Copenhagen Accord, which is probably about a 6 out of 10 result (inaudible)
PRICE: But does it then embarrass you when you have people like David Marr reporting that you were using the F word to describe Chinese delegates to Copenhagen?
PM: You know something, what I've learnt in politics over the years is you never talk publicly about private conversations. And, and-
PRICE: Do you feel let down when others do?
PM: No, no, that's a matter for them. You know, you're a grown up when you decide to enter into politics. Put your hand up and say that you're open to, you know, complete public scrutiny. And sometimes that's, as you know Steve, pretty searching. Sometimes it can be fair. Others may judge, from time to time, it's less so. But look, the key thing is this- your listeners, I think, are much less concerned about all of that, which commentators will write about day in day out.
What they're on about is, are we going to keep the economy strong for the future, what are we going to do to fix their hospital system, when do the new hospital beds start arriving, what am I doing for their accident and emergency and their elective surgery waiting times, what are we doing with the supply of doctors and nurses, when's the new national curriculum come in, and guess what - we have a strong record of achievement in each of those areas. The day's political debate, whatever it is, will often focus on other things. That's fine.
PRICE: But when you go home to Therese at night and the kids, and you sit there around dinner and you're talking, it must get difficult when they read and hear that people are describing their father as having anger management issues and that he uses bad language.
PM: Oh well look, you know everyone in this business is human. And I'm blessed Steve, with a marvellously supportive wife and life partner Therese. We've been married for nearly 30 years. And kids who are marvellously supportive, given that kids often cop flak, and this doesn't just apply to me, it applies to anyone in political leadership, including Mr Howard when he was Prime Minister. Kids often cop flak as well as a result of being in political life. But that's part of the price that you pay. But I'm very blessed by having such a supportive family. But the key thing is, all the families really listening to your program this morning because many of them, right now, are doing it tough, notwithstanding the fact that we've managed to steer the economy through this global crisis without going into recession.
PRICE: I know you've got to go, and I don't like to do this to you off the top, but the ABC is apparently reporting that two Australian soldiers could be among a number of NATO soldiers killed in Afghanistan, up to ten troops may have lost their lives. Are you aware of that incident?
PM: Steve, for all reports coming out of Afghanistan, there are very important and sensitive protocols to adhere to. That would apply to any developments at any time. There are often reports through from Afghanistan about the wellbeing of our soldiers. I adhere to those protocols religiously. And that would apply today as any day.
PRICE: Okay, appreciate your time as usual, thanks.
PM: Thanks Steve.
PRICE: Good on you, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.