HOST: It's our pleasure this morning to welcome the Prime Minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd. Good morning, Kevin.
PM: Good morning Eddie. Good morning, guys. Thanks for having me on the program.
HOST: Good to have you. Kevin, you're meeting with the Premier today, John Brumby, and you met yesterday. The issue is the health revolution that you're trying to get through. You want to change it from a state-based system to a federal-based system. Our callers have been pretty busy this morning, ringing up saying 'OK, tell us why and how this is going to make our health system better.'
PM: OK, two or three quick points. I think what all working families, pensioners and carers want is better health, better hospital services.
What are we going to do about that?
First of all, the Australian Government will become, for the first time, the dominant funder of the public hospital system. At present we pay one third of the bill. For the first time, we become the dominant funder of it. That is what we call a system which will be funded nationally, but here's the other bit - it will be run locally, through local hospital networks. There's no way in the world you'd actually run a hospital system from bureaucrats in Canberra, or for that matter, bureaucrats in Melbourne. They've got to be actually run locally.
But the big difference for the future is making sure there's enough funding in the system. If we don't change it, guess what? The states and territories, including Victoria, won't have enough money to fund this system over the next 10, 20, 30 years. In fact, the Treasuries tell us if there's no change, all the state governments' money will be consumed only on health in the next 20-30 years with not a zac to spend on anything else.
That's why we're stepping in.
HOST: So, Kevin, if this comes in, what's the first thing we'll notice? I mean, we talk about hospital waiting lists and all those types of things. We've had a lot of callers today saying what about preventative care, we've also got an ageing population. What will be the first thing, if everybody agrees to this, what's the first thing we'll notice once the Feds take over?
PM: The three things that people want to change and where we would put our investment first is more doctors, more nurses and more hospital beds, because unless you're fixing those things you're not fixing the system.
HOST: Where do we get them from? Are we going to bring them in from overseas, or are we going to get more training, because it's easy to say. Not too many kids walking around the streets walking around the streets wanting to be an apprentice doctor.
PM: Well, actually, a surprising number, actually. The problem in the past has been we haven't provided enough training places for GPs, so what we did recently, Nicola Roxon, the Health Minister, and myself is look at what are the needs over the next 10 years, and frankly, just to stand still, we need an extra 3,000 GPs, and if you want to stand still and not improve the system, another 1,000 or so specialists.
But what we've done is fund a policy announced about two weeks ago which says starting next year we will increase the number of training places for doctors - that's GPs and specialists - across the decade ahead by 6,500, and that's not just pie in the sky in 10 years' time. We'll start increasing the number of GP training places from next year, and that will go up steeply each year after that. So, if you want to know a key area where you'll see change, it's the number of doctors and nurses.
We've also got to invest in more hospital beds, because wherever I am, Melbourne, elsewhere, yesterday I was at a hospital in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne - they don't have enough hospital beds. That's what they say. And if they are going to deal with, like, going into accident and emergency, they said 'well, we've got enough bays in the emergency department, maybe, but frankly, where do you put people once they've come in if they need to be admitted?' That's where the problem lies. We need to fix it.
HOST: Kevin, obviously here to talk a lot about the healthcare system. We had the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, on the Hot Breakfast earlier this week, the morning after he'd completed the iron man triathlon. He was pretty chirpy and feeling pretty good about himself and he didn't miss the opportunity to give you just a little whack on the way through. We thought we'd play it back to you, what Tony Abbott said earlier in the week.
HOST CLIP: Do you want to lay down the challenge now to Kevin Rudd, to say 'beat that'?
ABBOTT CLIP: Oh, look, I think that would be a bit unfair. I mean, I've always been a reasonable sportsman and Kevin never has, but look, we're all different.
HOST: Just couldn't resist, could he. What do you think of that, Kevin?
PM: I think he's right. That's what I think.
HOST: Is he trying to do everything in the polar opposite to you, Prime Minister? Is that what he's at there? The running iron man triathlons - what's he doing?
PM: Look, it's a matter for him. On the sport question, look, I'd just proudly say I was a member of the Under 14 E's rugby team at school. I made it into the C-grade team in the Yandina rural cricket competition and was then dropped. I was conscripted to be a member of the ANU weightlifting team and I lasted four days, so basically it's been a disaster all the way through, so I think Tony's right.
HOST: Nicola Roxon came out and said he should spend less time doing triathlons and more time writing policy. She's the Minister of Health, so she's saying stop exercising and get sedentary. Is that sending the right message?
PM: Well, preventative health care is really important. Look, with Tony's triathlon, as I said the other day, good on him, and I was asked about it, I said I would probably die or drown in the first leg, so good on him.
I think it's important to keep fit. As for preventative healthcare, we're going to have more things to say about that, actually, today while we're here in Victoria because fixing people in the hospital system's one thing. Having enough GPs to go to, that's another. That's basic healthcare, but preventing people from getting sick - that is really critical for-
HOST: -Can you give us a head start there, Prime Minister, on what's coming out today?
PM: We're heading off to Geelong to make some announcements about preventative healthcare, and these are going to be quite substantial nationwide. We've been doing a lot of work on this, doing a lot of work with the sort of people who are probably ringing into your program, because preventing people from getting sick in the first place, we're doing the right things not just on diet and exercise but managing the emergence of diseases like type 2 diabetes when they have onset. That's really important.
Having enough GPs to go to, making sure there are enough specialists available in the hospitals and enough hospital beds - this is the practical stuff which goes to why we need a new National Health and Hospitals Network funded nationally, run locally, because frankly the states, long-term, don't have the money to do it.
HOST: Kevin, you mentioned preventative care - one of the things that we were talking about earlier is obesity and the Australian Medical Journal actually did a 5-year study on the actual cost of obesity and as you would know it's more than, someone who's obese or, you know, overweight, the healthcare cost is roughly double that of a person who is otherwise a normal weight. When you're talking about preventative healthcare, are we talking about getting people to be more, so they have a healthier attitude towards their health and actually maybe get out there and play some sport and those sorts of things?
PM: Well, what are the two big drivers of a person's health? Well, probably three.
One is genetics, where you come from. Can't control that, that's kind of what you're given. That's what you're stitched up with when you arrive here, but the two things you can change is what you eat and how you exercise, and a lot of attention should be put on what we eat and how we exercise, but let's just say you develop one of these conditions - how do you manage it so it just doesn't get worse and get completely out of control? Bad for you as a patient, but also bad for the healthcare system as well.
So, we're going to have a fair few things to say about this today at a local level.
HOST: Prime Minister, a lot of our callers say getting to specialists, in particular in the outer regions, one having to be referred through a GP, it clogs up the whole system having to go to the GP to get a ticket if you've got one day off work, it just seems to be these archaic ways of doing business through the medical system, but the referral system has been a constant one we've had on this program, and the ability to be able to go to a specialist closer to home rather than going to the Collins Street specialist, which was the traditional way of doing it, of course, here in Melbourne, to be able to get them out in the regional areas and the suburbs.
PM: Exactly. In recent times I've been up to the Northern Hospital, I've been out at Sunshine, the hospital there, and the one I was at yesterday, Maroondah - look, the challenge from all those hospitals here in Melbourne is the same: 'we need more specialists in our turf, in our part of the world, so that everyone doesn't have to come to Collins Street.
So, how do you fix that? More doctors, more specialist training places, so part of the policy that we've talked about and announced funding for just two weeks ago is 6,500 additional doctors, including GPs and specialists, because if we don't plug this workforce gap, frankly, all the tea in China won't fix the problem. You need to fund it, which is why we are saying for the first time the Australian Government comes in and becomes the dominant funder of the public hospital system, and that is the big change we're putting forward.
HOST: Prime Minister, we're in an election year. A hardy annual is immigration, and that was another hot button for our callers this morning. Robin Williams, the comedian, the famous comedian, who has been in Australia recently, last night on David Letterman he was on and he had this to say about Australia:
CLIP: The Australians are basically English rednecks. You down there, 'how are ya? Good to see you. Hello.'
HOST: We pick up the Herald Sun today, Tony Abbott says I will shut the border, Abbott vows to stop flood of illegal boats, we pay $1,000 bribe so asylum seekers will leave. We've had Tampa, we've had all these things, we've had the White Australia Policy, you name it, it's been going for 100 years in this country, yet we've been built on immigration and there's a few people actually in this room who got off a boat to land in Australia.
Prime Minister, can we get to a stage where we forget about all the polling in issues and come out and just say 'right, here is our stance on immigration.' We're not one of the great countries of the world for having illegal immigrants coming in, by world standards, but we do need to have a population coming in because we've got West Australia that's desperate for skilled or unskilled labourers and that type of thing.
What's your position on this at the moment, Prime Minister?
PM: First of all, I think Robin Williams should go and spend a bit of time in Alabama before he frames comments about anyone being particularly redneck. That's my first response.
But to go back to your question, you know something? Since the war, immigration in this country has been a bipartisan policy and you run into people every day whose parents came out, who have come out themselves and just contributed hugely to our country's future.
When Mr Howard came to office, let me go to the official migration figures - in 1996, we were running at about 85,000 immigrants a year. When he left office it was about 180,000 a year, that's in 2007. We've kept it at about that level since then, but what we try and do is just adjust it each year based on what's the state of the workforce? What are the demands for skills? So, last year, for example, Chris Evans, the migration minister, brought it back in order to deal with the problems of the crisis, so I just think there's a bit of commonsense to be applied in all of this, and migration policy, since the war, has been bipartisan and I think it should stay that way in the future.
HOST: Kevin, big sign saying the Prime Minister's got to move on, but I just wanted to ask you a final one. Joe Biden came out when Obama got his healthcare plan through and said 'it's a big effing deal'. To me it humanised Joe Biden-
PM: -What did that mean, by the way?
HOST: Well, that's I wanted to ask you-
HOST: -Bit like when the Feds take over the state system it'll be a big effing deal.
HOST: It will be if the Prime Minister can get it through, but say, for me, when the build up to last election, when it came out about your visit to an establishment in New York it humanised you, Prime Minister. Is that-
HOST: -Why do you think he's in town?
HOST: Is that part of the battle for you, because we hear you talking healthcare and all the technical stuff, and most of the average people out there just want to say 'Kevin's a good bloke' or 'he's not a good bloke' or 'we like him' or 'we can relate to him'. Is that an issue for you, always?
PM: Look, with me, what I am is what you get. I just believe in trying to work very hard on getting these big decisions right, like on health and hospitals, or the other stuff which people want improved, schools and the rest. It takes time. You've actually got to work on it. I just think there's a limit to how many, sort of, exercises in just running around the place just trying to sell an image, rather than just doing your job.
HOST: Doing the work.
HOST: Doing your job.
PM: I'll be judged, as I should be, on whether we have more doctors, more nurses and more hospital beds, and better funding for the system. That's what I think people want, and whether they think I'm a barrel of laughs every day, well, that's a matter for them. My job is not sort of Entertainer in Chief. Eddie, that's more your problem.
HOST: Kevin, you're looking a bit tired. Are you going to have a break over Easter?
PM: Yeah, well, I think all of us need a break at this time of year, and we've been working really hard on this health and hospital stuff for some months, so, yeah, Therese and I are spending the weekend, a large part of the weekend, at the Lodge. She's started a kitchen garden down the back and she's basically conscripted me to-
HOST: -On the shovel.
HOST: Good work.
HOST: Get your hands dirty.
PM: Start digging, soil, cow dung, and whatever gets thrown in, and so-
HOST: -Can't you get a bloke to do that?
PM: Yeah, there's a guy there, but she-
HOST: -Get Tony Abbott. He's fit.
HOST: So you're not going to help the Governor General get through her wine collection?
PM: I got panned recently for having such a lousy one, but the other thing we're going to do is I've got a cousin who's got a sheep property up at Adaminaby, up in the Snowy, so we're going to go up there and go riding. He's got some horses which, we've gone there many times.
HOST: Are you a good rider?
PM: I wouldn't record it for the national archives. It's probably effective rather than being elegant, if you know what I mean.
HOST: I'm picturing you Vladimir Putin-style, tops off, on horseback, shotgun.
HOST: Bit off judo on the side of the river there.
PM: Yeah, I kind of see it as, sort of, the Kevin 'pulsating pectorals' look, but I think there are certain things the Australian public should be protected from and that's one of them.
HOST: PM, thanks for coming in. We appreciate it. You're advisers are all doing the Macarena out there, trying to drag you out of the studio. We appreciate having 20 minutes of your time. We know it's going to be a big sell. You're seeing the Premier, John Brumby, today, who'll be fighting for Victoria's interests, obviously-
PM: -Yeah, as he should, as he should. Thanks for having me on the program.