PM Transcripts

HADLEY: Prime Minister, good morning.PM: Good morning Ray.HADLEY: After our light-hearted exchange at the All Stars game-PM: I remember that one.HADLEY: I won't be suggesting, or I won't be- behaving myself, so I-PM: I think you took that as a joke, I certainly did.HADLEY: Yeah, I did, okay.PM: I think everyone around the table did, as well.HADLEY: That's good. The bungled home insulation scheme -PM: Yes mate.HADLEY: We've been talking about this since August of last year. And we finally had some action on Friday. Yesterday you met with some of the people who are in the industry, and you made a pledge to give them another $40 million on top of the $1.4 million we've already given the industry. Billion, that is.PM: Firstly, can I just say that in terms of coming on your program, part of the reason I've done so is that you raised this stuff pretty early on. So, I'm just acknowledging that as a fact. And my office tell me that you've been discussing this on air for quite some time. So it's important therefore that I respond to the concerns which you've been talking to your listeners about for quite a period of time.Your question goes to help for the industry itself.Let's just face some facts here- the overwhelming majority of the workers and the firms out there are good. They're doing the right thing. Therefore, how do we balance the two big challenges we've got now? One, which is safety for households, because of the limited number of shonks out there. And secondly, the implications for businesses who are good businesses and workers who are good workers.So what we've had to do is cancel this program, work on the design features of a replacement energy rebate scheme, renewable energy rebate scheme to start on 1 June, and in the meantime, help good firms, decent firms, honest workers, honest firms on the way through to the transition. That's what we're doing. It's not easy. I fully accept that. There've been a whole lot of problems with this. I recognise that. But we've just go to deal with them and take responsibility for them.HADLEY: Do you accept that what Lindsay Tanner, your Finance Minister said to David Speers on Sky News before you curtailed the scheme- that you didn't have time to dot the i's and cross the t's- may have been responsible for the shonks getting a rails run, so to speak?PM: You know something Ray, I reckon there are shonks in every business out there. And the real problem that we've got, as any Government has, and frankly, any business has, is looking after the honest suppliers, the honest businesses, the honest workers and trying to deal with this margin of fly-by-nighters at the edge. That's our concern. In terms of the risk management processes put in by the Minister, he acted on the basis of the advice his officials gave him.But that doesn't exonerate us, or me, from the problems which have occurred. Our job now is to roll up our sleeves and fix it - for workers, for businesses, and also for households who have real concerns. I understand that. But also, frankly, the full weight of the law to come down on those who have done the wrong thing out there as well.HADLEY: Given that Minter Ellison told the Department in April of last year that there were some rather significant flaws and problems with this, how does the system work that the Director General of the Department doesn't involve the Minister about some really prominent concerns about what's going to happen with this if it's implemented. Why doesn't she tell the Minister, "look, hang on a sec, you should read this"?PM: Well, let's go to the Minter Ellison report, given you've raised it. And you're right to say it raised concerns about how the scheme should be implemented. And that was in April of last year, the scheme didn't fully come into operation I think until July last year.So what do they actually have to say? Go to page five of the report, it says, by way of recommendation, effective process for the registration of installers, that's what you got to do. What was done was that a national installer provider register was launched on 29 June 2009. That didn't exist before.The second thing Minter said was installers should be hooked in to the Australian building standards. This was done by the Department when the program guidelines required adherence to the relevant Australian building standard for insulation of dwellings. That's the second thing they did. And I'll just finish two others and then, fire away.The other thing they said was there may be an inability to attract enough people to train to become installers, and what it recommended was this: develop a process for registering installers. I just talked about that. Set up the monitoring, reporting process to identify emerging provider stress, and what the Department then did was establish a project control group with representatives from right across Government, and external risk consultants to do that.And then on top of that, what they said was that there needed to be- that they had to deal with the risk of the product itself not meeting safety standards, and that's why the Department conducted a series of meetings with industry, including on 29 April last year, at a compliance meeting with the representation of all the relevant State authorities, and the Department established a roof inspection program overseen by PriceWaterhouseCoopers.So on each of the things raised by Minter Ellison, there is action taken by the Minister, based on the advice of his Department.But you know something Ray, problems have happened out there. And they are substantial. I don't walk away from that, my responsibility - my responsibility -HADLEY: Well there are four deaths Prime Minister. I mean, there are three young men that have been electrocuted and one that was baked in the roof in western Sydney.PM: On the deaths that are concerned, these are horrible tragedies for the families concerned. Absolutely horrible. As are any industrial deaths.In this industry, that's the insulation industry, what I'm told is that in any given year, say 2008, prior to this scheme of ours coming into operation in 2009, there are about 50-75,000 insulation refits done right across Australia.What happened in 2008 I'm told is that we had about 83 fire-related incidents related to insulation material. That's before this program came in. When our program was introduced, obviously the number of insulations increased rapidly. The number done in the last 12 months or so is over a million. And we've had something like 87 fire-related incidents.Now, it doesn't excuse any one of them. Okay, I'm not making excuses.HADLEY: Fire brigades are saying closer to 200 by the way, than what the Minister was saying.PM: Yeah sure, I'm just operating on the data that I've got. And I don't doubt what the fireys, the integrity of what the fireys say and conclude and we'll sort our way through the figures.But what I'm saying is, historically, there are problems here. There were deaths in this industry beforehand as well. It was a pretty unregulated industry. And as far as the individual tragic deaths that you've mentioned are concerned, we've got coronial inquiries underway by WorkCover, the relevant safety authorities in Queensland - let's establish all the facts in each case.HADLEY: Okay, you mentioned Minter Ellison and the more positive aspects of their report. You didn't mention the fact that they had a risk analysis looked at, and they asked the Department to put it on hold for three months because of what they called at the end of the report, 'extreme risks'.PM: Well I think - I don't actually have the draft report with me here Ray, but let - I think there are about four sections of it from memory.HADLEY: Yeah, this is the last one that the Minister didn't see until earlier this week -PM: Sure.HADLEY: Where they clearly said, Minter Ellison clearly said the home insulation scheme should be delayed for three months until about September, because we are concerned about the type of people in the industry, my words not theirs, and the possibility of the risk of harming installers and maybe even death.PM: Well, on the individual elements of that risk assessment document, there are about four sections which dealt with risk. The three that I'm familiar with in detail go to elements of identified risk, and then it goes on to how do you actually manage that risk, and Minter Ellison, also their assessment of the effectiveness of the proposed risk management strategy by the Department.And in each of those cases that I've seen, what they said was the proposed risk management strategy was effective. Now, that doesn't meant that this was done perfectly. It was not. I'm not pretending that it was.But I've had a close look at what the Minister has done in response to the advice from his Department, and what he sought to do each step of the way was: one, what's the risk assessment here; two, what's the Department's advice to meeting the risks in the industry, bearing in mind that historically this industry has had fires, has had deaths, has been unregulated.And for the first time the Minister in response to the advice tried to bring in first of all OH&S standards right across the system, secondly the first nationally accredited training program when there wasn't one before. Doesn't exonerate us of stuff that's gone wrong, you're absolutely right Ray. But you asked me how did the Minister respond to these things, that's what happened.HADLEY: Okay, you had a conversation with representatives of the industry yesterday. If you bear with me, I just want to play you an interview I conducted with one of those people, do you remember meeting a girl named Jo Doran yesterday afternoon?PM: Yeah, I think she's from Grafton, am I right?HADLEY: She is. Just listen to what she had to say to me on Monday. We're talking to the Prime Minister.INSTALLER: I'm an installer. We've got a fairly large company on the northern New South Wales. We put off 160 guys on Friday afternoon.HADLEY: How long have you been going, Jo?INSTALLER: Mate, 17 years with my husband and myself.HADLEY: How many did you employ this time last year?INSTALLER: This time last year we put on 12 guys and built it up again from there.HADLEY: But hang on, let's go back two years ago, before the rebates. How many people did your company employ?INSTALLER: Just my husband and I.HADLEY: How many jobs have you done?INSTALLER: We've done just on 20,000 jobs.HADLEY: I'm only a broken down choirboy, not a mathematician- 20,000 times 1,000, put three noughts on that, one, two, three, that's $20 million. Times 400, that's $28 million.INSTALLER: That was a guestimation.HADLEY: Hang on a sec, Jo -INSTALLER: I've done -HADLEY: If you've done $28 million in 12 months you're travelling pretty well.INSTALLER: - made so far. I'm on to Mr Hadley.HADLEY: Jo, if you don't know, I'd much prefer you didn't say, because you've just made a complete and utter fiasco of our conversation.Prime Minister, see, my concern is, you met in good faith with that lady yesterday -PM: Yeah, yeah.HADLEY: - who's just off the top of her head on Monday told me her company had earned $28 million and went from two people- she doesn't own the company, the company's owned by a bloke in Grafton called Shane Cutting, we're broadcasting into the northern rivers at the moment -PM: Sure.HADLEY: - people are inundating me with emails saying that this is a telemarketing firm. They haven't been in business for 17 and a half years. They in fact are one of the reasons that you've pulled the pin on it. And there you are yesterday, inadvertently meeting with someone, who perhaps their company causes a lot of the problems. And now, they're getting their noses back in the trough, having - according to them - earned $28 million in 12 months from your system, and now they want compensation for workers, who aren't workers by the way, they're all subbies, who've got ABNs, their own trucks. I mean, see, this is where the rort gets perpetuated and keeps growing.PM: That's why we've got to deal with each business on a case by case basis, Ray.HADLEY: So they won't just be writing a letter and saying 'give us the money'?PM: Oh, for goodness sake, no. I mean the key thing is just to deal -HADLEY: Well, that's what's been happening Prime Minister -PM: No, no, no-HADLEY: Please don't be surprised, that's what's been happening for 12 months. They've been sending invoices in, some of them $48,000 a day. And we've been writing cheques and sending the money to them. Our money. My money. Your money. The Government's money. Borrowed money. We've been giving $1.4 billion away. We now know that 255,000 homes haven't been properly insulated. The poor buggers that don't have insulation now have to pay out of their own kit to get the insulation put in that Peter Garrett wanted put in in the first place to give them some sort of relief from the heat and the cold.PM: Well, my response to that Ray is simply to say again that I'm the bloke in charge, and I take responsibility for what's gone right and what's gone wrong here.The second thing I'd just say though is there's more than a million homes that have been insulated out there, the vast majority of them are fine. And also, the reason we did this was to get out there and support workers at the time - and the economy at a time when the place was going through the floor 12 months ago.And because of the Government's national economic stimulus strategy, we protected about 200,000-plus jobs in the economy. 6,000 jobs are now at risk because of the cancellation of this program. My job as Prime Minister is to get out there and fix the problems which have arisen, both for businesses, both for workers, and also for households. Now on businesses, you're right. There are shonks out there. I'm not pointing the finger at any particular firm -HADLEY: I just want to make sure they don't keep going back to the trough, that's all.PM: No, mate, you're absolutely right. That's why there's not simply a haul up the white flag here and here's a cheque. Each one of these has to be dealt with legitimately -HADLEY: Okay, I know you've -PM: I spoke with the heads, I think, four or five companies. Jo Doran was one of them. They in turn had a long session with Mark Arbib, the Minister, afterwards. My job -HADLEY: I hope Mark's listening to that tape today.PM: Yeah.HADLEY: And he understands that there will be people knocking on his door saying look, we're in all sorts of strife, when in fact they're not in strife, they've earned more money in a year than many other people have earned in their lifetime. Or 10 lifetimes.PM: Well our job, you know, Ray, is to sort it out case by case, firm by firm, and worker by worker. Look, throughout the global financial crisis, we stood up for workers and jobs across the economy, because if you look around the rest of the world, unemployment rates went through the roof. We kept it under control here. We implemented a huge stimulus strategy to do that. And problems have arisen with this particular program. I accept that. My job is to get out there and make sure that it's fixed.HADLEY: I know you're pressed for time, two other issues.PM: No, you keep going mate, that's fine.HADLEY: Okay, we had the 15th boat to arrive this year overnight. The 83rd boat full of illegal immigrants since August 2008. 83. Will you concede, in light of your White Paper on Terrorism, because some of these people are coming from areas where terrorism is rife - will you concede your border protection policy has failed, when you replaced the Pacific Solution with what you thought would work?PM: Can I just say in response to that Ray that, you know, in terms of boat arrivals in the last period that you've just talked about, we've had this civil war in Sri Lanka, which has just pushed a whole lot of people not just out to Australia, but all over the world. It's been a massive civil war.The second thing is, the numbers that you've just mentioned, you know, there were years in the period of the Howard Government when the numbers of people arriving here by boat and the numbers of boats were much, much larger. You know why? It comes and goes with what's happening in the security environment in our wider region.So Mr Howard had a whole set of measures put in place. Some of them worked. Others of them didn't. We have a series of measures in place, but you know something, the key thing is to make sure we've got all the resources out there for our people as cops on the beat, out there on the high seas each day trying to do a job.And the pressures come and go, depending on what's happening in the wider security environment.HADLEY: Now, Prime Minister, you've said this a number of times about the push factors. The figures from the United Nations show asylum applications rose globally by only five per cent in the nine months to September last year, while here, in Australia, applications from illegal immigrants rose by more than 25 per cent. We are over-represented compared to the rest of the world, so it's not a push factor across the world, it's a push factor here because John Howard had to deal with what you're currently dealing with and he came up with a thing that you find unpalatable, and many people do, called the Pacific Solution, but the problem for you is he stopped it. You started it again and now we've got the 83rd boat.Goodness knows what it's costing you and us for Christmas Island and many of the people coming here from Sri Lanka will obviously make a wonderful contribution, as others have made, but how do we know that some of the Tamil terrorists aren't among all those people, who've created havoc in their homeland?PM: Well, let me just answer the three bits of the question you've raised. One's about the Pacific Solution. Here's a fact for you - how many people on the Pacific Solution ended up in Australia anyway?HADLEY: Oh, probably-PM: - 60 per cent, that's under Mr Howard, 60 per cent of them.HADLEY: A majority of them.PM: Hang on, let's just get some facts here. 60 per cent of them ended up in Australia as Australian citizens. So the Pacific Solution may sound like a good term for those on that side of politics -HADLEY: - But it stopped them coming.PM: Hang on - 60 per cent of those who came under the Pacific Solution ended up here.HADLEY: 60 per cent of 100 is a lot less than 60 per cent of 1,000.PM: Well, you know something, the other part of our policy is that when we find that a person's not a bona fide refugee, they get sent packing back home.HADLEY: And how many have we sent back?PM: Hundreds and hundreds. I saw some figures on this the other day -HADLEY: - Hundreds? From where?PM: Absolutely, from Sri Lanka and from other countries. I'll send you the figures in terms of where.HADLEY: Hundreds?PM: Hundreds have been sent back home. You talk about -HADLEY: - Since when?PM: Hang on, you just talked about the cost of Christmas Island -HADLEY: - No, hang on, since when have hundreds been sent home?PM: In the period that the Government's been in.HADLEY: Hundreds? Are these people, not boat people, you're talking about people that arrived through normal ports and things like that?PM: I'll get you the breakdowns -HADLEY: - I think you're talking about people who arrive on commercial flights and things like that, but if you're talking about Christmas Island, I think the number is fewer than 10.PM: I think you'll find that we have sent, as I said, hundreds back home, but I'll get you the breakdown of the figures of where. I just don't have those in front of me and I don't want to mislead you.HADLEY: OK, that's fine, but in other words -PM: - But on Christmas Island, you asked a question before about the cost of Christmas Island. Mr Howard built Christmas Island, spent $400 million worth of taxpayer's money at the very time when he and others were saying the Pacific Solution was fine and dandy. Because Mr Howard and his advisers and the immigration department knew that in the future more pressures would arrive from around the world. It comes and it goes, so it brings me to your last point about figures.I really disagree with your figures. You know what happened in the early 2000s, after the so-called Tampa? You found, right around the world, that the overall applications for asylum from Afghanistan and from other countries like that and from Iraq and from Iran, they all went down because security circumstances stabilised for a while.Then, secondly, what happened, has happened in the last couple of years because of problems of security in Afghanistan, problems of security again in Iraq and problems of security because of the civil war in Sri Lanka, they've all gone up.So countries around the world have to deal with these surges which come and go. Our job is this: you sort out who are the bona fide asylum seekers. That's what the previous government sought to do. Secondly, those who are not, you send them back home. And thirdly, you make sure your border protection authorities and your security authorities have got all the resources they need to do their job, and we've been doing that as well.HADLEY: Okay, we'll talk about the figures a bit later when I get them off the website here. But to the other major election promise that you can up with in relation to health. Now, I'm a resident of New South Wales, you're a resident of Queensland in normal circumstances. I spent some time on the Gold Coast -PM: - I reside in all three these days, mate. Home in Queensland, sometimes in Sydney and sometimes here, so -HADLEY: - You're a proud Queenslander, which is what I'm trying to say.PM: Yes, mate, I back the Maroons.HADLEY: Exactly. Now, I don't know as much about your health care system in Queensland as I know about it here. It's a basket case. Your Labor Government that's been here for 15 years and fronts an election next year has single-handedly almost dismantled our health system in New South Wales. From what I hear from my colleagues in Queensland, they're not much better, Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia.You said to the electorate, and to a certain extent I think a lot of people voted for your Government on the basis that they thought 'here's a bloke that's going to take this basket-case state-territory health system and put it under the federal umbrella. They fund it anyway, so let's get some action.' We're still waiting. We're still waiting for something to be done as the ambulance queues grow and grow and grow and grow.PM: You know something, Ray? Your analysis of the problems of the system right across the country, they're not far wide of the mark. And it's, the causes for that, they are manyfold, part of which is laid with what state governments have done. Part of it's been, frankly, the withdrawal of federal funding over many, many years as well. I'll come back to that in a minute.Secondly, you say about what I said to the people before the election, which is the buck stops with me. And you know something, Ray, I don't back away from that one moment.Why we have taken longer with this than I would have liked to actually get it right is because it's really big and complex. That is, we've got across Australia today, 115 million people, or 115 million visits to GPs each year, you've got something like 49 million hospital services being provided across our 748 public hospitals in our country. This is a huge system. I'm taking a bit of time to make sure that we get it as right as we can, and let me tell you we will not back away from this one for one minute.But can I just add one point, mate? Part of this is funding the system for the future. When you say we already fund most of it, well, actually, with the hospitals, we don't. The bottom line is this: you've got to make sure you've got secure funding for the future because you've got an ageing population. If you roll the clock out a couple of decades we're going to be spending seven times more on people over the age of 65 than we do today. It's because we're all getting older, and as the population grows as well.State governments and their financial resources, frankly, are stretched to the limit. When Mr Abbott was Health Minister for four years, what was his response? He ripped out $1 billion from the public hospital system, put a freeze on GP training places and did nothing about the shortfall of 6,000 nurses. That's what I've inherited.HADLEY: Prime Minister, he's long gone. You've been there for nearly three years. He's long gone.PM: But Ray, you can't just let him off the hook for that, mate. Four years as Health Minister -HADLEY: You were the one that said that you were going to solve the problem, not him. If you -PM: - But he's now offering an alternative solution, Ray. I think it's fair to -HADLEY: - But hang on, I'm not worried about him. You're the one who said, you say he buggered it up. I accept that. I'm not going to question that. I'm asking you, as the Prime Minister, who in opposition promised me and the rest of the country you'd fix it. We're still sitting here waiting for you to fix it, because it's still as bad now as it was when you said you'd fix it.PM: Well, let me answer that in two ways. First is this: I don't walk away from what I said before the election, which is the buck stops with me. I will not walk away from that. That's my responsibility, that's my job and I've just explained why we're taking a bit longer to try and get it right, because it is so complex.The second thing is this: when you say nothing's happened, can I just say that when it comes to the overall investment in the hospital system, I said before Mr Abbott had taken a billion dollars out, what we have done is increase investment in the public hospitals in our first two years in office alone by 50 per cent.For the first time the Australian Government is investing direct money, three quarters of a billion dollars, into elective surgery, or in accident and emergency, $600 million into elective surgery, and do you know what we're doing? Making it possible for 60,000 more people to have elective surgery procedures which would not otherwise be the case.We have increased the GP training places already by 35 per cent, we're increasing the number of nurses by a large factor as well, and we're investing for the first time in the capital needs, that's the building needs, of the hospital system itself, for example, out at the Nepean Hospital.Now, this is the beginning. That's what we've been doing in two years, and we will have -HADLEY: - When will you take over?PM: We've first of all got to finalise our plans, get it out there, we want to get it right, but we are making sure that we have it absolutely right and signed and sealed on the detail before we put it out there. But you're right to be frustrated about the time -HADLEY: - Will you do it before, if you're returned this year as Prime Minister, will your Government do it before the next election? Not this one, the after it? It's a bit like Kristina Keneally and railways at the moment. I'm asking what will happen in three years, I guess, or three and a half years, but can you give us some sort of guarantee that as we go into this election, before the one after this one, if you're still Prime Minister, that you will actually do something about what you said you'd do six years before you actually do it?PM: Let me be absolutely blunt about this, Ray. One, we're going to put our plan to the states and territories as we've said, within the period ahead, not too much longer. Secondly, they will accept it or reject it, and if they reject it -HADLEY: -I f they've got any brains they'll accept it, given what they've done to it.PM: Well, you know, sometimes, mate, I scratch my head, but we'll come back to that later.HADLEY: I'll bet you do about this state.PM: Well, I'll come back to that later.HADLEY: I can see your frustration from time to time. Anyway, by the way, just back to the immigration -PM: - No, no just to finish it, though, to answer your question, if they reject it, as I've said very clearly, we would then go to the people for a mandate in terms of what we would do with 100 per cent takeover of the funding responsibility of the system. I've been very plain about that. That's what we're doing, and people will know in absolute black and white what our future plan would be.I understand the frustration about the delay. We said we'd do this from the middle of last year on. That is, get a plan out to the states, get their response and then make the decisions on it.There's been a delay because we wanted to consult hospitals right across the country. The Health Minister and I have been out there visiting 101 hospitals ourselves over the last six months to test the recommendations of the Reform Commission's recommendations with them to make sure it works on the ground.So it's frustrating that we haven't been able to get this finished earlier. I accept that, take the criticism for it. I'm determined to get it as right as possible, mate, for the future, because it's not just next year, it's the year after, it's the rest of the decade and beyond, because if we do not fix the system, it will break.HADLEY: You better go back to Chris Evans, I've just checked the figures I have in front of me - 14, one four, people have been sent back to their place of origin from Christmas Island.PM: What I've got here, which has just been handed to me, 141 unauthorised boat arrivals sent home since election. There you go. That's what I've been given. That's what you've got. So there you go. We'll sort it out between us later on.HADLEY: There's a difference of 120-odd there, OK.PM: No, that's fine, but I'm saying, you know, we'll sort it out between us.HADLEY: OK, now, one final thing in relation to -PM: - What did you think of the game the other night, by the way?HADLEY: Allstars? Wonderful game, wonderful game, and a great celebration.PM: I thought it was terrific.HADLEY: And in the end won by the better team.Mad cow disease - sort of snuck up on us. We've been preoccupied with other things. Beef products from countries once affected by mad cow disease, people are writing to me and saying 'look, I was in the UK at the time of mad cow disease in '96, I can't give blood, so if I can't give blood, how come we're importing beef to be processed and maybe put in our meat pies that we don't know about because if it's baked here and made here with beef that's imported from one of those countries they don't need to say anything other than made in Australia.' Are you giving some sort of guarantee that beef will be safe to eat in every sense once it's started to be imported from Monday?PM: Let me go through the advice we got from the people who run the system here.The Chief Medical Officer, I'm just quoting him here: "People can now identify how to contain it and so it now brings Australia into line with countries such as the US, Canada and New Zealand, who assess each country on a case-by-case basis."Red Cross: "The recent Federal Government decision to allow meat to be imported from the UK is not expected to impact on the Australian blood supply."Food Standards Australia, they say, Food Standards chief executive Steve McCutcheon insisted: "Consumers could be 100 per cent certain that all imported beef would be BSE-free."Red Meat Advisory Council, from The Land newspaper, says: "What is clear regarding the new policy is the risk of Australia importing BSE-infected products remains negligible."Australian Lot Feeders Association said: "There is unequivocal science which supports a change to the current policy."The Cattle Council of Australia says: "The Cattle Council of Australia reassures consumers and cattle producers that change to BSE import rules will not affect the food safety status of beef in Australia."And, finally, because you're from the great state of New South Wales, the New South Wales Farmers Association chair, not normally a huge backer of Government policy, mate, out there, says: "As a nation, we have strongly supported international trading rules being science based, particularly when arguing for greater beef access into regions such as the EU and South East Asia and the previous, zero-risk policy made it difficult to justify our stance when BSE science has progressed significantly since the policy was implemented in 2001."HADLEY: I think the answer is yes, that we'll be safe. I think that's what you're saying.PM: That's, mate, my job as Prime Minister, as not an expert in the beef industry, even though I grew up on a farm where we had beef and dairy, is to look at the advice from the health experts, look at the advice from the food industry experts, the food safety experts, and for the Minister to act appropriately.That's the advice that I've just read to you.HADLEY: Okay, one final thing -PM: Mate, that was supposed to be the last one.HADLEY: No, controversy surrounding Belinda Neal, who has lied to parliament on one occasion when she made comments about Sophie Mirabella, then denied she made the comments. She should have been sacked then. Will you be endorsing her as the candidate for the central coast seat of Robertson in the forthcoming federal election?PM: Well, I think Belinda has worked hard in the local area, but ultimately, Ray, that's a decision for her local preselectors and what happens up there.HADLEY: So you won't be intervening?PM: Mate, there's a stack of preselections around the country. People should have their say and that's the case as far as this one's concerned as well.HADLEY: Prime Minister, thanks for your time.PM: Thanks, Ray. Let's talk again.