FAINE: Kevin Rudd, good morning.
PM: Good morning Jon. I'm talking to people on the airwaves because I'll be overseas next week and I won't be talking to people on the airwaves. There you go.
FAINE: The opinion polls though, and your sudden availability for the media. Surely the two are linked. 8 percent drop in the polls. What do you think has happened?
PM: Well on the first point Jon. I talk to the media as of when my timetable permits and I've certainly been talking to the media a lot prior to the publication you referred to earlier this week. On the second point is that, in my job as Prime Minister, is to govern in the national interest. That means making difficult decisions. Whether that's in relation to the economy or whether it's in relation to border protection, I'll continue to do so in the national interest. As far as decisions taken in recent times, I fully accept the fact that some of these are not going to be terribly popular with people but my job is not to be in the popularity stakes, it's simply to get on and make the right decisions and we will continue to do so.
FAINE: On the Oceanic Viking and the standoff off the coast of Indonesia. The costs are soaring and you said we have infinite patience. Will these people still be there in a week? A month? A year? for how long?
PM: I've always said we have infinite patience, as the Indonesians have said. Each of these vessels is dealt with in terms of its own individual circumstances. Some are more complex than others. You simply deal with each challenge as it arises. Remember also that in the last 12 months we've had something like, I think, 81 interruptions of vessels coming to Australia. We've had, of course we're dealing with the consequences which flow from the civil war in Sri Lanka 260,000 people displaced. Tens of thousands going to Europe and to North America and on top of that, you also have of course a number, more than a thousand or so, who've made their way into Australian waters as well-
FAINE: -Is there no deadline-
PM: (inaudible) challenges on their merits as well
FAINE: Is there no deadline to this standoff Prime Minister? Surely you can't-
PM: Well we'll continue to work through each of the details with this as you would expect as we do with every vessel. We've dealt with-
FAINE: -it doesn't seem to be working.
PM: We've dealt with different circumstances recently arising from the tragic sinking of a vessel off Cocos Island. That's required a different response. This vessel requires a different response. That is actually part and parcel of the daily business of government in dealing with the difficult challenges of border protection. Remember in the past these have confronted Australian governments for the last 30 years and they will be around into the future as well and there is no neat, easy, one-size-fits-all response to each individual vessel. We just take it on its merits and the circumstances which pertain to this and, this of course, the vessel that you're talking about, came about as a result of a search and rescue operation conducted in Indonesia's search and rescue zone and at Indonesia's request.
FAINE: But you're not appealing to anybody if you had taken these people onto Christmas Island, you would at least have satisfied those who think we should have a more open compassionate approach. If you simply refused to have anything to do with them you would have satisfied those who say we should shut the borders. This way you're not pleasing anyone.
PM: My job, can I say Jon, is to act in the national interest and you're going to have people who attack government decisions when it relates to border protection from the far Right, who presumably are arguing that we should return children to behind razor wire and people from the far Left who presumably argue that we shouldn't have an orderly migration program at all, or no border protection regime at all.
Our job is to conduct a tough, responsible, fair policy. Hardline on people smugglers, humane on asylum seekers. That's what we've been doing since we formed government. That was the policy we took to the previous election. We've implemented each of the elements of that policy since the election. We've done so in relation to each of the challenges of border protection which have arisen over the last couple of years and we'll continue to do so into the future.
FAINE: Can you call in more favours from the Indonesians? The way you did at the beginning of this standoff.
PM: Well, can I say, Jon, the right thing to do, because this is a global and regional problem, is to continue to obtain the cooperation of the Malaysians, the Indonesians, where possible the Sri Lankans and other regional governments. That's why for some years now, in fact four or five years, we've had a process underway called the Bali process which provides for a region wide cooperation. Specifically with Indonesia, cooperation on people smuggling is outlined in the terms of the Lombok treaty. These are perfectly normal sets of consultations which go on between governments on the difficult challenge of people smuggling and as far as people smugglers themselves are concerned, what we've had in the last 12 months is some 15 people smugglers convicted in Australian courts. Since last September some 43 people charged with these offenses currently being prosecuted.
FAINE: And that's all good, but there's nothing normal about one of our biggest ships, the Oceanic Viking, full of asylum seekers literally marooned offshore from Indonesia in a standoff. That's not normal.
PM: Can I just say, in times past and times in the future there will be, as I said, unique sets of challenges and we will continue to work our way through each of these as they present themselves. Any government of this country, acting in the national interest, taking difficult decisions on border protection will be doing this on a continuing basis. We are wrestling with challenges here which governments around the world are wrestling with as well. If you've got a quarter of a million people in Sri Lanka displaced from a violent civil war, tens of thousands heading out to, as I said, Germany, France, Canada, the United States and South-East Asia and we're wrestling with one thousand or so plus who've made it to Australian waters. Our challenge is to deal with each on its merits and each according to its circumstances and the boat that you talk about, of course arose, because of the circumstances of a search and rescue operation in the Indonesian search and rescue zone. So our, we're working very closely with the Indonesians as you would expect and the international office of migration and the UNHCR officials are working with the individuals on the vessel.
FAINE: All right-
PM: As I've said we will work though it patiently and calmly as people would expect of any Australian Government.
FAINE: Well we will all wait to see if there is any breakthrough. To turn to Fiji Prime Minister. How does it help the situation to kick out the Fijian representative in Canberra in retaliation for our representative being kicked out of Suva?
PM: The bottom line is, Jon, you cannot send anything less than a clear cut message to the people of Fiji, the Fijian regime and more widely the people of the South Pacific that the Governments of Australia and New Zealand will not simply stand idly by while this Fijian regime fundamentally breaches its democratic principles. This is a military coup which occurred in Fiji, you have the suspension, in effect, of a constitution. A refusal on the part of Bainimarama to hold fresh elections. You have the wholesale sacking of the judiciary at one point in this process. You also have extraordinary bans on press freedom. Anyone who thinks you can deal with such a regime on a normal basis is, I don't think, in touch with basic democratic principles. What's out broader concern here? To make sure that what's occurred in Fiji, with this military regime, is not in any way seen as normal across the many other island states of the South Pacific and as chairman of the Pacific Island forum I take that responsibility seriously.
FAINE: And what do you do next in the event that sending this message seems to have no effect?
PM: Well, at the end of the day, Jon, the question about the future political shape of Fiji is a matter for the Fijian people themselves. But we simply are not going to stand idly by and convey a sense of normality about a regime which is on the slippery slope towards the incremental abolition of all forms of press freedom for example. The attacks which have occurred in terms of the basic freedoms of journalists and the press in Fiji. What's happened most recently with this ANU professor who apparently has been given his marching orders from Fiji. You cannot simply assume that you can normalise relations with such a regime because it is important and, fundamentally important, that as a family of democracies in the South Pacific we stand up for these basic principles. This regime does not. Therefore there are not normal dealings with it.
FAINE: Kevin Rudd, you've appointed Peter Costello to be a trustee of the future fund and within 24 hours he and some long standing friends have announced the creation of a new merchant bank called BKK partners that's come out of Goldman Sachs JBWere. It seems you've resurrected his corporate prospects by appointing him to the future fund.
PM: Well I'm sure Mr Costello would have been proceeding and prosecuting his own commercial negotiations with colleagues in the private sector for some time. That's a matter for him.
FAINE: But as soon as you appoint him to the Fund he's useful again in corporate life. Is that the way it works? You do favours for people in parliament-
PM: Can I just say, Jon, first of all, as far as terms of appointments of the future fund are concerned, I'm advised that the various members of the future fund board of guardians, quite a large number of them from times past, have also had other direct commercial involvement in the financial sector. There's nothing unusual about that, in fact it's the sort of expertise that you harness.
FAINE: But you've been critical in the past about politicians immediately upon leaving parliament using their connections, their networks and their knowledge of their own portfolio to further their own post-parliamentary career and now you're pretty much assisting Mr Costello to do the same thing.
PM: With respect Jon I think that's drawing a very long bow. We have been the government for two years, it's been two years since Mr Costello was Treasurer. Far be it for me to go out there and defend each and every one of his individual commercial decisions from this point but I think, you know, it's been two years since he occupied the Treasury benches and every individual has a right to pursue their own career.
FAINE: You vigorously criticised his management of the economy when he was Treasurer. Now you're saying he's one of the ideal people to look after the biggest taxpayer-owned fund in the country.
PM: Well Jon, the bottom line is this: the view in Australian politics that we are permanently divided between two irreconcilable tribes, I think, results in us losing a whole lot of talent particularly in post-political life to the overall long-term needs of the nation.
People put on their political boxing gloves throughout their active political career and they do as we're expected to do which is to engage in the hard fight for political ideas for the nation's future. When they choose to retire from that, whether it's Kim Beazley, whether it's Brendan Nelson, whether it's Peter Costello, the judgement I take as Prime Minister is that we should be harnessing all the talents that are available for the nation in terms of our nations long term needs. I've done it in the past, will continue to do so in the future, and I think it's time we actually got over the period where we thought everyone on the other side of politics and post political life are sons and daughters of the antichrist. I mean life's a bit more complex than that. Let's get beyond it.
FAINE: There are people in the Labor party though who think, in fact, that what you're doing is rewarding your enemies in a way they would never reward you or anyone else in the Labor movement.
PM: We'll there will always be criticism of these sorts of appointments. I go back to the response to an earlier question in this interviewer today, Jon, which is my job is to, as Prime Minister, is to govern in the national interest and if there attacks on decisions which come from the ranks of the Left of Australian politics, well so be it. But my job is to take decisions in the long term national interest and as far as Mr Costello's concerned, he's had some considerable experience obviously when he was Treasurer over 12 years. Obviously there were great disagreements between us and him and his management of the economy but you cannot therefore, as a result of that, conclude that he has no talents or ability to provide - and what we're talking about is people being able to act in national, in service of the nation, in their post political life.
I don't intent to, as Prime Minister, return to the days of 1996 to 2008 or 2007 when it seemed a rule of thumb on the part of my predecessor Mr Howard, that anyone who had previously worked with the Australian Labor Government should somehow be permanently persona non grata for work on behalf of the Australian nation. As I said I think we have to get beyond all that.
FAINE: Well we'll see if they return the favour when next they are in office. Just finally-
PM: (laughs) that's entirely a matter for them. My job is to act as Prime Minister now for however long that happens to be.
FAINE: Understood. Understood. Finally, Kevin Rudd, tomorrow is the 10th anniversary of the defeat of the referendum for Australia to become a republic. Do you intend to go to the people at the next election with a promise of reviving the process?
PM: Well first of all I think with the challenges of the global economic crisis, and we are not out of the woods yet at all on that score, and you would have seen yesterday's retail data for Australia indicating that we still have a long, long way to go. First priority which people expect me to attach my energies to is to manage the crisis and to manage Australia's longer term recovery.
Then there are a whole range of other priorities some of which we've been speaking of this morning. I said prior to the last election that on the question of the republic it would not be a priority for any first term that we occupied in office. It would be something that we attended to later if the government is re-elected and that's very much the position I still have.
FAINE: I'm grateful to you for your time which we've used to its full extent. Thank you this morning.
PM: Thanks very much Jon.
(ENDS)