PRICE: On the line from Queensland, morning PM.
PM: Good morning Steve, how are you?
PRICE: I'm well, did you take offence to that comment from Tony Abbott?
PM: I think what the comment demonstrates Steve, is that neither Mr Turnbull or Mr Abbott or the Liberals have an alternative policy on border protection. That's what it demonstrates.
PRICE: Well, they won't, they won't will they say - will they - what they will do?
PM: Well that's a very good point, it's very easy to criticise in this business. Border protection has always been a difficult challenge for any government of Australia. We've had boats coming to this country for the last 30 years. In the period Mr Howard was Prime Minister there was something like 250 boats that came to Australia carrying nearly 15,000 people.
The period that I've been Prime Minister, we've had 40 or so have come with nearly 1,900 to 2,000 people. This is a challenge for governments past and present. It's a difficult challenge but we're elected to implement a tough, responsible, fair policy on border protection, one which is hard-line on people smugglers, humane when it deals with asylum seekers. People from the far right will attack it because they want to put kids back behind razor wire, I presume. People from the far left will attack it because they think we shouldn't have any border protection at all. This we believe is the right policy and we'll continue to implement it.
PRICE: The Pacific solution did, for a period, stop the boats coming though, you'd have to concede that they, that we slowed them up. Now I know you suggest that there's this push and pull theory. You'd have to admit though the 78 people aboard that vessel that is still currently in Indonesia, it would appear through the investigations that many of them on board that vessel have been in Indonesia for up to five years. That's not push and pull is it?
PM: I'll just go to your point first about the Pacific solution. When we abolished the pacific solution, first of all we said to the Australian people prior to the last election, that's what we would do.
Secondly, when we proceeded to do that in government the Liberal and National Party through their spokesman supported that, let's just be very clear about that. Second thing is you say it had an effect. It was enormously costly for the Australian taxpayer but what actually happened in the period from 2001 to 2004 was the outflow of refugees from Afghanistan and Iraq and other countries. Right around the world the outflow went down and the reason why it went down dramatically was because the security situation in those countries at that stage stabilised.
What's happened since 2005 and 2006, in particular, is the security situation in many of these countries has now got worse again. In the case of Sri Lanka only three or four months ago, a civil war which has seen 260,000 people forced to different parts of the island. 130,000 going over to India, tens of thousands going to other countries in Europe and in North America and we've had, you know, one or two thousand come to Australian waters. It's a challenge for all countries and it will be a challenge into the future as well.
PRICE: It seems there is, this is stating the bleeding obvious, but there are hundreds of thousands of people on the waiting list and what is being created here that they sit in detention camps like places in Indonesia. It's no surprise, is it, that they want to try and get to Australia because life here as a recently arrived asylum seeker has got to be better than where they are.
PM: Well, right around the world you've got, Steve, right as we speak 41 million people who are displaced persons or asylum seekers in various countries in the world. And I've mentioned before the figures from Sri Lanka which is, only over the last several months, 260,000 displaced on that island alone.
So therefore what happens is that you have these push factors out from Sri Lanka, which go right across the world. Thousands going to France, thousands going to Germany, thousands also going to North America and you've also got others who are coming though South-East Asia and seeking to come to Australia and some seeking to come direct.
PRICE: But have we, sorry to interrupt, have we inadvertently now forced people to try and make a more perilous journey direct from Sri Lanka to Australia by what's happened in Indonesia?
PM: Well people smugglers themselves, Steve, are a vile trade and they will say anything in order to drum up business for themselves. That's why we are unapologetic in being hardline on people smugglers themselves. Last 12 months we have 15 people smugglers convicted in Australia, 43 smugglers, organisers and crew are currently being prosecuted before the Australian courts. We intend to, as we have been, throwing the full force of the law at people smugglers. But let me tell you, it's a challenge, people ask why you're cooperating with Indonesia and Malaysia, because we want to deal with those who trade in human misery, people smugglers, and that's why we're dealing with the Sri Lankan government on this question as well.
PRICE: I just conducted a small experiment waiting for you to come on, knowing you I was going to speak to you. I just asked two or three callers about how they feel your government is going two years in and how your leadership is and the asylum seeker issue obviously comes up strongly, 7 points down in Newspoll yesterday. Those couple of callers said we're asking for strong leadership on this issue and Kevin Rudd's not showing it.
PM: Well can I say that my job as Prime Minister of the country is to take hard decisions in the national interest. A responsible border protection policy which is hardline on people smugglers and which is human when it comes to asylum seekers.
I fully appreciate, Steve, that what you're going to have from various people in the community is a conclusion that these decisions are not popular. I understand that. I accept that, but my job as Prime Minister is not to take popular decisions. My job as Prime Minister is to take decisions in the national interest. And when you put this into its broader context of us being one of many, many countries including Indonesia, Malaysia, the countries in Europe, the countries in North America dealing with a very large outflow from Sri Lanka right now, then what we are doing is consistent with a proper approach to a problem which is genuinely global. And as I say, what we've done out there in Indonesia so far is, we've conducted some 80, I mention Indonesia but in other countries as well, 86 successful interruptions of boats seeking to come to Australia.
PRICE: But is it strong leadership to leave those 78 on an Australian boat who are basically blackmailing us into wanting to come here?
PM: On the circumstances surrounding this boat, that arose because of a search and rescue operation which occurred because of a distress call issued in Indonesia's own search and rescue area. They asked Australia for assistance, they did not have a vessel nearby. We then took that vessel to the nearest port which is an Indonesian port with Indonesia's concurrence.
Now on the ground, obviously you're going to be faced with real challenges in terms of successfully working your way through the processing of these individuals but as I've said and the Indonesians (inaudible) we have infinite patience in dealing with this particular matter. Put it into its broader context, what we've been dealing with is many, many vessels- 86 successful interruptions of vessels coming to Australia. Also we have as I've said some 15 people smugglers already convicted, 43 currently before the courts, these are the sorts of actions which we are taking on the ground but I fully accept, Steve, that whatever actions are taken by the Australian government they will not necessarily be popular, but my job as Prime Minister is to act in the national interest whether it's popular or not. I contrast that with Mr Turnbull who doesn't even have the courage to put forward and alternative border protection policy.
PRICE: I want-
PM: It's easy to conduct a fear campaign, it's much harder to come up with solutions.
PRICE: Sorry, I want to talk about a couple of other issues but your Minister Brendan O'Conner has, it's been reported online in The Australian website this morning raising hopes of an end to that standoff. Do have any news on that for us?
PM: I have said consistently over the last week or so that we, together with the Indonesians have great, great patience working our way though this and we will continue to do so. As I said, Indonesia's said it has great patience in handling this and so do we, Australia. We'll work our way through it, but again to put it into its context, this is one vessel with 78, we've been processing a whole range of vessels (inaudible) separate interruptions of vessels or attempted travel to Australia by people smugglers, we'll continue to take those sorts of hardline measures but as I've said it's a problem for countries right around the world when it comes to Sri Lanka because of the extraordinary violence in that country, which is why global and regional solutions are the best way of handling this in the long term.
PRICE: I want to play for you just a comment that you made during the 2007 Labor Party launch for the election in regard to health. I'll just play this for you if you don't mind.
RECORDING: On hospitals, we have put forward a national plan to end the buck passing between Canberra and the states. I have a long term plan to fix our nation's hospitals. I'll be responsible for implementing my plan and I state this with absolute clarity, the buck will stop with me.
PRICE: I've taken to playing that a bit lately. When's the buck stop with you on health?
PM: First of all Steve, I stand by everything I said and what you have just played. Secondly what I am doing is now road testing the recommendations for long-term reform of the health and hospital system around the country with the Health Minister. I'm in Brisbane doing that again tomorrow at the Mater Hospital. Yesterday, I was doing the same at the Hervey Bay hospital.
What we'll be doing, after discussions with the premiers and chief ministers on our reform plan at the end of this year is putting our final recommendations for the health and hospital system to them. In the first part of next year I hope we are going to reach cooperative agreement on it. If we don't, and as I've said consistently, we'll seek a mandate from the Australian people. I stand by everything I have said.
PRICE: It's been two years, what's long term, what's the definition of long term?
PM: You know Steve, no-one has actually taken a systematic, fundamental look at the future needs of the Australian hospital system since we introduced Medicare.
What we've got to stop doing is having a bit of bandaid here and a bit of sticking plaster over there. What we need is a plan for the future of our health and hospital system which goes out to the next quarter of a century. That's what we appointed an independent reform commission to do. It reported in July, we've released that report with 123 separate recommendations. Myself and the Health Minister have now been around together some 67 different hospitals around the country. Myself some 17, she's doing the rest. We're road testing the recommendations. When you're talking about the next 25 years you've got to make sure you get it right when something as basic as the health system is at stake here, but also can I just say this. After we were elected, and in the first two years in office, the Australian government increased its funding for hospitals around the country by 50 percent in the Australian health care agreement with the states and territories-
PRICE: -but your premiers are letting you down aren't they?
PM: Well there are problems in the health and hospital system. The recommendations in the report that I just referred to before, say that the whole system, nationwide is at tipping point. Let's not guild the lily here, there are real problems out there and I believe what we need is a long term solution to fix it. I've indicated to you what the time frame for doing it is and it's entirely consistent with what I said to the people before the election. The contrast is this. Mr Howard, never once in 12 years came up with a long term reform plan for hospitals, and instead took 1 billion dollars out of the public hospital system of Australia. That's not been our approach. We intend to reform both now and for the long term.
PRICE: But the voters are saying to you, we heard you say that two years ago we want to know when the buck will stop.
PM: Well as I said, the commitment that I gave, and the one that you played before just prior to the last election, I stand by absolutely. When we take this reform plan to the States and Territories in the first part of next year we will either reach agreement cooperatively or, if there is objection to it, we will seek a mandate from the people. The responsibility, the buck stops with me. There will be no ifs, buts or maybes about it. I meant what I said and we intend to get on with it. But you've got to be systematic in the way you analyse the problem.
Systematic in the recommendations that you come up with. When you're looking at people's lives, their health, their livelihoods. And across the 750 public hospitals in Australia you don't just come up with an idea late one Friday afternoon and decide to get on with it. You've got to do it systematically, carefully, put it out very explicitly to the states and territories, then get on with the business of implementing it. That's what we intent to do.
PRICE: Two more quick questions, I know you've got to go. Do you think the banks are two hasty in lifting their home loan interest rates given that all four jumped in immediately yesterday after the Reserve lifted the cash rate?
PM: I do note a contrast Steve between, shall I say, the speed with which interest rates are brought down on the part of the commercial banks and the speed with which they are put up on the part of the commercial banks. What I would be very, very concerned about is if any of the commercial banks then proceeded to increase interest rates by anything in excess of the 25 basis point adjustment by the reserve bank yesterday.
PRICE: Just finally, before you go. How did you ever pick Shocking out of that field of 24 or 5?
PM: Oh, It's easy to explain Steve. It was just a complete fluke.
PRICE: (laughs)
PM: If you know as much about the nags as I do mate, frankly, I reckon the principle for the Melbourne Cup is the less you know the better your going to go.
PRICE: Well you might have won a few people some money yesterday. Just as you go I notice Sky News and I know you're mobile in your car I can hear that. They're reporting that, that search off Australia, off the Cocos Islands has now been suspended. Can you give me an update on that? Do you know what the latest is?
PM: The most recent advice I have is that they are drawing the operation to a close and the details still are that we have managed to secure the rescue, I'm advised of 29 individuals, 27 survivors I'm sorry-
PRICE: -Yep.
PM: Including one 15-year-old. It's believed that two youths both aged 14 are among the missing. One body of one deceased person is also on the LNG Pioneer and two others were sighted but not yet recovered. And that is the most recent information I have. It's been some time since the vessel sunk which is of course a great tragedy. And when we're dealing with people smugglers it is, just an awful set of circumstances.
PRICE: And the pioneer will go to Christmas Island, yes?
PM: We'll the arrangements we have. It's like the ones I described before in relation to Indonesia. When there is a vessel in distress, which is in the Australian search and rescue area, the normal approach under international maritime safety law is that individuals having been rescued are taken to the nearest location, in that case Christmas Island. Just as in the case of the Indonesian search and rescue area intervention over the last week or two where the Australian vessel, having intervened at the Indonesians request took it to the nearest port which was an Indonesian port. That's the convention that applies worldwide. That's what we're applying here.
PRICE: PM, thanks.
PM: Thanks very much Steve.
(ENDS)