LAURIE OAKES: Prime Minister, welcome to Sunday.
PM: Pleasure to be on the program Laurie.
LAURIE OAKES: How long did it take you to settle in to the job, I mean, have you got used to being called Prime Minister yet?
PM: Not entirely, it is the honest answer to it. People say that I usually look around my left shoulder and wonder where the other bloke is, and but we've spent the last couple of months knuckling down to the job, there is a lot to do.
We've got a large number of pre election commitments to the Australian people which we take seriously, and so we've all been focused together with the cabinet colleagues on translating that into reality and that has been a pretty demanding job the first few months.
LAURIE OAKES: And how's the bureaucracy going? Has there been any Yes Minister moments or do they jump to and do what you want?
PM: Well I said to them the other day, we had a good meeting of the chief executives of all the public service agencies and it was a good meeting. We were just talking about the proper responsibilities of ministers on the one hand and of public service mandarins on the other, but I did remind them that I'm probably the first bloke for quite a while who has been at one stage in his life both Humphrey, Bernard and now the Minister, and in this case the Prime Minister, so there is very little I haven't see before.
LAURIE OAKES: Yes, Prime Minister. Now the first week of parliament we will see a huge piece of symbolism, you saying sorry to the stolen generations. Why are you doing that first up?
PM: It is unfinished business for the nation. I think it is time we got on with it. I think as I travel around the country, it doesn't matter where people come from there is an overwhelming desire on the part of Australians to deal with this.
It is never going to be a unity ticket, a whole of lot of people out there who have raised objections and concerns but I think this is a blight on the nation's soul, I think we need to act on it and I think the sooner we can move on and cross this bridge of hopefully renewed mutual respect between indigenous and non indigenous Australians then get on to the big challenges.
Also of how do you close the gap between indigenous and non indigenous life expectancy, education outcomes, health outcomes, the practical work which we need to do in partnership with indigenous communities across the country.
LAURIE OAKES: Now I understand you spent part of yesterday with a survivor of the first generation of these policies. Tell us about that.
PM: Well I wanted to have a conversation, in fact to listen, just to sit and listen as I did for about an hour and a half. Pretty difficult for politicians to sit down and just listen for about an hour and a half without expounding on the world.
But I wanted to do that before sitting down and framing my own speech to the parliament this week, and so I wanted to speak directly to someone who had been through those experiences, in her case, in the early 30s, when as a young child she was taken, stolen, from her family and her community and in her case, taken away at the age of 3 or 4, never saw her mother again because by the time she was allowed to go out and find a job at the age of 16 her mum had died.
Those stories are writ large across the country and they are the source of enormous pain. I think the challenge for us who are non indigenous Australians is to ask one very simple question, what if that was me? How would I feel? And that is why we have got unfinished business to attend to and we intend to get on with it this Wednesday.
LAURIE OAKES: Can you tell us who this woman is?
PM: No she wants to remain private and I understand that, it is very difficult and emotional. Legitimately emotional but I wanted to spend some time. If she chooses at some later stage to go public on all of that, then that's a matter for her but she is a lady now in her 80s and I want to respect her privacy.
Jenny Macklin has been doing the same with the stolen generation representatives and there are two groups around the country who are trying to draw together the threads from the various stories, and Jenny has been doing a great job doing that as have out members in the Northern Territory in particular, Warren Snowden, Trish Crossen, Damien Hale, out there talking to local communities.
LAURIE OAKES: And how many members of the stolen generation will be coming to Canberra for this and is the government paying for it?
PM: We've decided in discussions with the state and territory governments that we and with the representatives of stolen generation people themselves, that we want to bring a representative group of 100 to Canberra for the official apology on Wednesday. And that will be important. We the Commonwealth and the states and territories will be paying for that, we think that is the respectful thing to do.
And I would like to thank the organisations who have helped us work through the very sensitive question as to who should be in that group but I look forward to receiving them in parliament house in Canberra on Wednesday.
LAURIE OAKES: Will a representative of the stolen generations be there to accept the apology, is that who it will work?
PM: The exact processes on the floor of the parliament we are still working our way through but that will all become clear over the next several days.
LAURIE OAKES: But John Howard has decided to snub the event, certainly not attend any way, does that disappoint you?
PM: Well look, at this stage Mr Howard will make his own decisions and I've seen the reports that we won't come but I can't guarantee that every former Labor prime minister will be there. Malcolm Fraser will be there, and I know that we will have lots of representation from across the show but if Mr Howard could make it that would be a great thing but I do note that we may not have all the former Labor prime ministers there.
LAURIE OAKES: It is three days off and we still haven't seen the terms of the apology, why not, is there argument going on within the government, is there a split?
PM: No, disagreement among us but let's be very clear about this. This is a proposed apology on behalf of the government and if the opposition supports us, the parliament, to the stolen generations. The key thing, the absolute key thing, here is to get it right, in terms of the stolen generations themselves. To make sure the language is right, that's my first responsibility otherwise next Wednesday is a wasted event.
LAURIE OAKES: So it is still being negotiated.
PM: Yes we are still working our way through the finality of the language. I had breakfast with Mr Nelson the other morning and gave him a piece of paper which outlined what would be the core content of the motion before the parliament and I gave that to him prior to him having his party room meetings so we are operating in good faith on this, and we are hopeful, hopeful, that the nation might be able to conclude this unfinished business on a bipartisan basis.
LAURIE OAKES: Now this is based on the ‘bringing them home' report, and in fact I think you've invited some of the commissioners who prepared that report to be there on Wednesday, so why have you rejected the ‘bringing them home' commission report, the recommendation on compensation.
PM: What we said is that we will not be establishing a compensation fund. As in the past since that report came down and let's bear in mind that report was commissioned by the previous Labor government. It has been a long time coming, that was commissioned back in '95, is that since that report came done which was I think was 1997 it has been an open avenue for any individual to take action in the courts if they so chose.
And that course of action has always been there for such people, as it has been there for people since various state parliaments around the country have done this. That is, brought about there own motions of apology, but for me what is the core challenge. As I've travelled around communities with Jenny Macklin and met many indigenous leaders in the territory and else where the challenge is how do we bridge the gap, how do we close the gap between indigenous and non indigenous Australians.
The fact that we have the obscenity of indigenous kids under the age of 5, with 3 or 4 times the likelihood of infant mortality under the age of 5, than non indigenous kids. That's obscene, just shouldn't be, so you ask me where is our national investment effort going to go, it is in these practical challenge areas.
LAURIE OAKES: So the ‘bring them home' commissioners didn't know what they were talking about when they said that it should include measures of rehabilitation, restitution and monetary compensation.
PM: We believe that the best form of dealing with this unfinished business is for the entire community of aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders to close the gap, and you know something Laurie, it hasn't worked very well up until now.
Let's just be truthful about it. And I include my Labor colleagues in the states and territories, some things have worked but most haven't and therefore what I am looking for this year, and Jenny Macklin, the Minister, and I have had long discussions about this, is how do we actually bring about a new compact for the future at a practical level, and you know something, it is going to cost a lot of money.
But I'm not going to embrace it until we have concluded this unfinished business, I'm not going to do it until we've negotiated a new and effective way of handling, closing the gap in the future, and it must be on the basis of reciprocal obligation between indigenous and non indigenous Australia, if we are going to invest substantially to close the gap that now exists between us.
LAURIE OAKES: Now will parliament be different, this is the first week of parliament under your government, is it still going to be a bear pit or will you change it?
PM: Well I think what I would want to make clear Laurie is that I can't promise the undeliverable when it comes to the conduct of the parliament.
Our intention is to ensure that we use the parliament as properly as we can to convey for example the messages, key messages which the government wishes to delivery to the people. Let me give you one example, I will be encouraging my ministers to pay much greater use of the parliament in making ministerial statements about future directions in policy. In the past I think a bad tradition has crept in whereby rarely was the parliament used as the forum of the people of which new policy directions to be announced.
I will be encouraging ministers to use the parliament much more in that respect, and it is a consequence to treat the parliament with much greater respect.
LAURIE OAKES: Less bagging in question time and more politeness perhaps?
PM: Well whatever I say in response to that question Laurie, I can see you repeating it time and time again when there is some breach by somebody who flips out one particular day. Look my job is to try and restore some respect to the place, I'm realistic about how far you can get, but I've flagged one area where we as a government intend to treat the parliament with greater respect which to use it as much more of a forum for the nation in announcing key directions for the future. We won't do that exclusively, sure events will arise which preclude that but I want to encourage ministers to do the same.
LAURIE OAKES: Prime Minister we will take a break, be back in a moment.
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LAURIE OAKES: Welcome back, we are speaking to the Prime Minister Mr Rudd. Prime Minister, you've said inflation is your biggest challenge...
PM: Hmmm.
LAURIE OAKES: But why have we only heard about short-term remedies? What happened to the plans to boost infrastructure and skills training? We've heard nothing about higher education virtually since you became Prime Minister?
PM: Laurie, we take seriously our pre-election commitments, commitments to the Australian people. All those are being implemented. If you go to skills, for example, we said that we would inject investment into computer training in schools.
That program is being finalised now by Julia Gillard, and it's a very complex implementation task, but it is happening. Elsewhere on the skills front, we have said that we would establish a national curriculum board to establish a national curriculum for the first time in the country's history.
We announced that board and its chairman only a couple of weeks ago. On the infrastructure front, the first Cabinet meeting of the year in Perth established infrastructure Australia. Anthony Albanese is finalising the board membership for that. And finally on skills and the immediate challenge ahead as well, we promised prior to the election that we would establish over time 450 thousand new training places.
I think about 3 or 4 weeks in the government's life we announced an early release of 20,000 of those places up front, given the skills shortage in the economy.
LAURIE OAKES: But again no mention of universities in what you've just said.
PM: Well I've run through those three categories, on university; we have a lot more to say, and a lot more to say fairly soon, but you can't build Rome in a day, but our Education Revolution agenda is in place. Every element of what we committed to prior to the election in that Education Revolution will be implemented and the reason is skills are critical to building a world-class education system and making this economy world competitive into the future.
LAURIE OAKES: You say you can't build Rome in a day, but obviously you have to start pretty quickly if inflation is as urgent a problem as you claim. In terms of infrastructure, where will the money come from given the razor-gang frenzy that we're seeing at the moment?
PM: Well we've got to get the planning right, one of the things with infrastructure for example, which holds back private investment infrastructure is we don't have across the nation right now. Nationally integrated PPP, public private partnership regulations. Therefore, if you are a significant investor in large projects and you need some critical mass in the projects you're investing in, and maybe as an investment house, you need a nationally consistent set of regs. They don't exist.
One of the challenges which Lindsay Tanner has right now and Craig Emerson, wearing their deregulation hat, is to get that right. On the public investment side, we also will be for the first time at the level of national government, putting our shoulder to the wheel as well. And we're currently working with State and Territory governments on identifying early projects. So on that given that we've been in for, what, 8 weeks or so, I don't know now, it's ... Anthony Albanese on the infrastructure front, Julia Gillard on the skills front, they've been head-down, tail--up.
LAURIE OAKES: Well you've been criticised for not being prepared to dump the tax cuts amid all this spending-cut talk. Have you considered paying them into super on an opt-out basis, why wouldn't that work?
PM: On the question of the tax cuts, you're right. We will be proceeding with them. We've seen all the commentary as to why we shouldn't but once again...
LAURIE OAKES: As a promise, so you have to stick to it.
PM: As a government, well not just stick to it, I take seriously what you say to people. It's not all that magical. You say you are going to do something, you should do it.
LAURIE OAKES: But don't you concede though that if people saved the tax cuts, rather than spending them, that would counter inflation?
PM: When I delivered my first speech on the economy this year in Perth and announced before the inflation data came out this year and before the decision by the Reserve Bank on rates most recently, I said that public priority No. 1 for us is the war against inflation and announced our 5-point plan. One of which was, of course, a Budget surplus of 1.5% target of GDP, considerably in excess of that was projected by our predecessors. But the second point was this, what do we do intelligently to boost private savings. Wayne Swan and I are working through a range of options now.
LAURIE OAKES: Is one of those options paying the tax cuts as superannuation except where people prefer to opt out?
PM: We will deliver the tax cuts. They will come automatically.
LAURIE OAKES: Why won't you consider that plan?
PM: Well, we will work through a whole range of options and possibilities, Laurie, but can I say there will be absolutely no change to people having tax cuts to take as additional income at the point at which they were implemented, because working families are under pressure. But on point 2 of our 5-point plan which both deal with the demand side of the economy, obviously public savings through the Budget, private savings through a range of mechanisms, we've put up there in lights that we think this is an area which we think requires further work.
LAURIE OAKES: OK, a few quick issues. There is publicity today about poker machines. Senator-elect Nick Xenophon wants to meet you and wants some concrete action from the Federal Government to try to reduce gambling. Are you going to accommodate him?
PM: Well I don't back away from anything I've said in the past on poker machines. I've said it before and I will say again, I don't really like them. Nothing has changed, I don't intend to change my spots on that. And for those and other reasons I look forward to catching up with Senator Xenophon, as well as, or Senator-elect Xenophon, that is a mouthful, but also other people I've been having private conversations with him on this, including Tim Costello.
If you look at the numbers on this, it is a bit of a challenge area. I looked at some ABS data on this in recent days and this is a few years old, but when you're looking at some $9 billion in net takings from gaming machines across the country, tax revenue to the states and territories running at somewhere between $5-6 billion, when you've got something like 200,000 machines out there, 77,000 people who are employed in this industry and the unwritten script about the exact social and economic impact on working families, so I look forward to talking to these folk about getting our analysis right about what's happening. I do not want to promise the world here, but I know we have a problem and I know that in partnership with states and territories, we can work through an agreed analysis about social impact and what to do about it. So I look forward to sitting down with Nick Xenophon soon.
LAURIE OAKES: What about the easy step of banning automatic teller machines in gambling areas?
PM: All those sort of practical things will be on the table in terms of a discussion. Frankly, I think it's wrong that they are there, that's my personal view, but what I've also learnt in public administration is don't just translate your personal prejudices immediately into public policy. You need to test it against some analysis. I think you know where my instincts are on this, but I want to make sure we've got it right on an agreed analytical basis, on the human impact, social tragedy, impact on families, the employment consequences for those 77,000 people out there who are employed in this industry, and on the other hand, the overall impact on the revenues of the states and territories. It is big, complex, but we're going to have a go and having a look at this and it will be an interesting year.
LAURIE OAKES: Now whaling - the Japanese Government is now threatening diplomatic action over the Australian Government taking pictures and releasing the photographs and film of them killing whales. Are you concerned about this affecting relations between Australia and Japan?
PM: We have a first-class diplomatic relationship with Japan which goes back over governments, both Liberal and Labor, back to the '50s when we normalised relations after the war. We have a strong economic relationship, strong diplomatic and security related relationship if you look at the trilateral dialogue established by our predecessors in government. These are important to us. But you know something? Calling commercial whaling scientific whaling is not right, it's not accurate, and again I'm being consistent with what I said to the Australian people before the election, which is that we would despatch Australian assets to the Southern Ocean in order to collect evidence, and they've been doing that.
LAURIE OAKES: Threats of diplomatic action won't dissuade you?
PM: No, we think it's the right course of action to collect that evidence, and the second part of the process is then to accumulate that evidence with a view to forming a decision about whether it's winnable to proceed with a legal case before either the international court of justice or the relevant tribunal of the law of the sea. I know this will be a bit rocky, I understand that, but we have a responsibility here as well.
Remember, the previous government established this thing called the Australian whale sanctuary down there. Doesn't seem to be much sanctuary happening at the moment, so I think we've got a responsibility to do what we can, not promising the world, but we are honouring what we said, and we will seek to manage this challenging area of our relationship as well as we can in the period ahead, but there is an overwhelming series of bonds and ties between ourselves and Tokyo, and the fact that Japan, for example, is such a generous donor in developing countries around the world. I mean, Japan is doing some wonderful things around the world. We just have a disagreement on this.
LAURIE OAKES: Prime Minister, we're out of time but we thank you.
PM: Thanks very much, Laurie.
[ends]