Subject:
trade union domination of Labor; same sex couples
E&OE...
GILBERT:
Mr Howard, thanks for your time this morning. Kevin Rudd has decided and told his party to sack Joe McDonald. He can't do much more than that, can he? He's acted pretty decisively.
PRIME MINISTER:
No he hasn't. This is a meaningless stunt designed to give the impression that he's getting tough with the unions. If he really wanted to get tough with the unions on this issue he would dump the policy that under a Labor government would bring back lawlessness on building sites. What the Australian public like is that building disputes are now at their lowest level ever because of the Government's tough policies and if Labor wins the election those tough policies will go and lawlessness will be the order of the day on building sites around Australia, that's the issue. This is a meaningless stunt. Expelling a person from the Labor Party means absolutely nothing. Look at Dean Mighell, he was expelled but with a wink and a nod the state secretary of the ALP said he would be back, but what matters is dumping the policy. If Mr Rudd wants to demonstrate that he's not run by the unions he's got to get rid of the policy that the unions told him to have, that's the issue. Expelling the odd person here or there is absolutely a meaningless stunt and in any event is he going to hand back the millions of dollars that the CFMEU has given the Labor Party over the years?
GILBERT:
But doesn't it send a message to other unionists to rein in their behaviour?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no but the issue here is what allows that behaviour. See, the reason that McDonald is in trouble and the reason this has surfaced is that the law of my Government was being enforced on building sites and that law will be gutted if Labor wins. They've said they'd keep the authority for a couple of years, that's not very long, but what they will do is they will starve it of money, they'll gut it of staff, they'll render it ineffective and people like McDonald and co will be back on the sites. I mean he's still a union official even if he's not a member of the Australian Labor Party and being out of the Labor Party for a few months is a small price for somebody to pay if it can give the impression, which Mr Rudd is trying to confect, that he's done something about rogue unionism. He will only prove to the Australian people he's tough enough to stand up the unions if he dumps the pro-union policy. That's the test. The test of Mr Rudd's leadership is whether the policy stays or goes, not whether McDonald stays or goes. That's a meaningless stunt.
GILBERT:
He's been pretty clear cut. He says zero tolerance on thuggish behaviour in the workforce. How much more does he need to do?
PRIME MINISTER:
That's what he says, his policy is not zero tolerance. His policy is optimum toleration of union misbehaviour. I mean, he says zero tolerance but the policy means something the opposite.
GILBERT:
But he's keeping the watchdog till 2010, it's...
PRIME MINISTER:
Once again, but what's 2010? We're now halfway through 2007 and there's more ways, many ways to skin a cat. What he will do if he wins the election is they'll starve this body of funds, they'll give it instructions to go slow, they'll gut it of staff and the thing will completely die in 2010. The only reason that they've given it a formal stay of execution is because of community reaction. I mean, remember only six weeks ago Julia Gillard, who's now talking about throwing McDonald out, was saying people like were treated as if they were terrorists. I mean, she was actually defending them six weeks ago, she was attacking the construction authority six weeks ago and saying they were treating people like poor Joe McDonald as terrorists and now because there's a bit of political heat on them, they're now pretending to get very tough. Look, the truth is the only way you can get tough with the unions on these issues is you say you cannot have your way with Labor's policy. That's what they've got to change.
GILBERT:
You say that they should hand back the donations. Why when it's one individual why would you say the whole union should be tarnished with that?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's not one individual, it's a pattern of union conduct. I mean you heard Reynolds on radio this morning defending McDonald, I mean it's a pattern of conduct. You've got this set up in New South Wales. Look, they are salivating at the prospect of a Labor victory. You heard McDonald talking about people working at Hungry Jacks. I mean what he is really saying is if Rudd wins we'll be back in town. We'll be running the country again and we will make sure you don't have a job.
GILBERT:
You're still well behind on the IR issue though. The Textor polling of marginal seats shows hesitation and concern on IR. How much of a worry is that for you particularly when you see that concern hardening despite your Fairness Test?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Kieran, I haven't seen the research that's referred to in the paper this morning. I see research that Textor does for us. I don't see research he does for his other clients so I have no idea and I don't intend to comment about that research.
GILBERT:
But if opposition to the IR laws is hardening despite your Fairness Test, it looks like they're completely on the nose?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Kieran, I haven't seen that research and I am not going to comment on it. As far as the IR laws are concerned, there has been a fear campaign run by the unions and it is important that the facts be properly explained, not only through our own advocacy but also in non-partisan government explanation. But also, I welcome the fact that the business community is looking at running a campaign. I make no bones about that. But look, the central issue is the substance of the alternative policies. I mean Labor's policy will allow thuggish union behaviour to become the norm again. And if they want to demonstrate to the Australian public that they are serious about thuggish union behaviour they will dump their policy. Meaningless gestures like expelling one or two people from the Labor Party which means nothing; I mean nobody thinks for a moment that Dean Mighell is any less an influential figure in the Victorian ALP now because he's not formally a member of the Labor Party any more than if they throw McDonald out, he won't still be a big wheel in the union movement and the Labor movement in Western Australia. That means nothing. It's a meaningless stunt designed to give the impression that Mr Rudd is getting tough with the union movement. If he wants to demonstrate toughness he'll dump the policy that would permit a return of illegal thuggish behaviour. Just remember, that this video has come to light because of the enforcement of our law which he will gut.
GILBERT:
Eleven point five million dollars apparently for the business campaign.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't know how much the business campaign is.
GILBERT:
Well the report suggests there is another 25...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there are a lot of things in the papers that sometimes aren't right.
GILBERT:
Okay, they're suggesting that there are another 25 companies earmarked for further donations. Will you take a part in trying to extract those donations?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look Kieran, I don't know how much money the business community has got. They're organising the campaign. I have made it clear all along that I would welcome third parties advocating the value of our industrial relations policy. It's a very important policy to Australia's future. What's at stake here is the extraordinary strength of the Australian economy in 2007 and if we lose this strength by changing laws that have given us that strength, we will pay a very heavy price.
GILBERT:
It says there's 25 more groups to be chased for donations. Will you play a key role in trying to chase those donations?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look the business community raises its money for its campaign. I have made my position clear in a general way. What the business community does is its business and its responsibility. But what is at stake here is good policy. If Labor wins the election it will gut our industrial relations policy, it will bring back unbridled thuggery on union...on building sites, it will undermine the power of the building authority which has really led to the prosecution of people. I mean the reason we're talking about this today is because of the enforcement of our law, which Labor opposed. I mean Labor voted against the very law that is now being used and which is being displayed on video. And the reaction of these union officials is a reaction against our law, which Labor opposed. And despite what it says, if Labor wins, it will gut it.
GILBERT:
And just finally, on another matter, your Liberal MP Warren Entsch says he expected action on greater equality for gay couples in the May Budget. He was told to sit tight, there'd be action, there was no action. Now we see this Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Report that shows ongoing discrimination in superannuation, insurance, a whole host of areas. Will you do anything?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we will have a look at the Human Rights report. I am not going to commit the Government to how it will respond. I haven't seen the report yet. Let's have a look at the report before we start making any commitments. We are not in favour of discrimination but, of course, our views on the nature of marriage in our community are very well known and they won't be changing. There's no possibility of our attitude in relation to gay marriage changing. In relation to other issues, we certainly aren't a Government that supports discrimination. But as to particular action, well we'll have a look at the Human Rights Commission report but I am not making any promises on the run in relation to something like that.
GILBERT:
A new Galaxy Poll shows more than 70 per cent of people support equal rights for gay couples as to heterosexual de facto couples. Are politicians; is your Government behind the community on this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven't examined that poll and I don't intend to comment without getting a little more analysis on something like that.
GILBERT:
Mr Howard, thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]