Subject:
Budget; petrol prices; cricket; David Hicks; Australian Technical Colleges; Tony Blair; East Timor; economic management; workplace reform.
E&OE...
MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Neil.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister I see a young student in Canberra quizzing you about how you care for your eyebrows. Do you think this could be a determining factor in the election?
PRIME MINISTER:
It might be. He was a lively bloke and it was a great school and I spent about half an hour in a question and answer session, impromptu, with the year 12 students at St Francis Xavier Catholic regional high in Canberra. And it was very interesting there, a...
MITCHELL:
The country is alright when you can be cheeky to the Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think the country is fantastic. I mean there was, he was cheeky in that sort of sense but he wasn't disrespectful. The whole thing was a wonderful reminder of the evenness and the openness of our country. I just can't imagine that you would quite have that spontaneity in other countries and it is an endearing thing and I hope and enduring thing about Australia.
MITCHELL:
The Australian dollar is high Prime Minister. Crude oil prices are flat. By any definition petrol should be about $1.20 a litre. In Melbourne it's $1.34, in Sydney it's $1.37. Shell's retail margin is 13.1 cents a litre. Normally it's about 7.3 cents. It just seems inescapable that profiteering is going on here. What can you do about it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we will again ask the ACCC to have a look at these prices. They do monitor them regularly but whenever complaints are raised we go back to them and say are you absolutely sure? I did check the prices and the average throughout Australia over the last few weeks has been $1.26 against a crude oil per US dollar barrel price of 63.9. In September of last year you had about the same ratio, you had 124.6 cents a litre versus a crude oil price of 64.5. There are always some leads and lags and I know at the beginning of the year the oil companies were caught out by the ACCC. They had been slow to pass on some of the reductions and we'll be on their backs to make sure they do.
MITCHELL:
But you agree that these prices at the moment, just on the dollar and on crude oil just look to high?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you can't make a definitive judgement except by looking at some prices over a period of weeks rather than just a period of days because there will always be for supply and stock versus flow reasons, there will always be occasions when the price on any given day might appear to either be behind, or ahead rather, of what it ought to be, but what it is over a reasonable period of time.
MITCHELL:
9690 0693 if you'd like to speak to the Prime Minister. Prime Minister the meeting with Alexander Downer and Cricket Australia last night; as has always been the case, if the Government directs the Australian team not to go, there is argument that the money doesn't have to be paid, the $2.5 million compensation doesn't have to be paid. We talked on Wednesday about the concern that the money, if paid, could end up with the Mugabe regime. Is the Government willing to direct the Australian team not to go?
PRIME MINISTER:
We are looking at the law in relation to this, it's not completely clear. We have one overriding objective and an important, although secondary, objective. Our overriding objective is the tour not take place. I raised this matter with the Chairman of Cricket Australia and also briefly with Ricky Ponting the morning the team came back from the West Indies. There is overwhelming feeling, although it pains me as a cricket lover, to see the Government getting involved in this. There is overwhelming feeling in the community and there are overwhelming reasons why the tour shouldn't go ahead. It will be used by Mugabe as a propaganda weapon. Our secondary and quite important goal is to see that the money that we might have to pay as compensation to indemnify Cricket Australia doesn't end up in his grubby hands because that would be wrong. But that, important though it is, that is secondary to our desire that the tour not take place. And obviously if there is a way, legitimately, that the tour can be cancelled and there not be an exposure by Cricket Australia to any fine, then we'll go down that path. But we're looking at that and Alexander Downer has raised that and we're having very good discussions with Cricket Australia. They understand the situation. They don't like it anymore than we do, but there is overwhelming feeling. I saw the Catholic Archbishop yesterday and the stories of torture and brutality, of the names of 600 members of the opposition party being taken from a computer by the secret police and every one of those homes visited, the people tortured and bashed up and then told to go to South Africa and not come back, and checks now being made subsequent to that outrage on those homes, you know, that's, I mean, that's the sort of thing the Gestapo did and you just can't tolerate that.
MITCHELL:
He's not a great deal different to Adolph Hitler is he?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you've always got to be careful with these historical analogies, I mean, after all Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust so let's keep a sense of historical proportion; that's the most evil deed in human history. But just bear in mind, you're dealing here with a grubby dictator, somebody who's had no pressure put on him until very, very recently and it's still very tepid from neighbouring countries and the neighbouring African countries could have secured his removal if they'd have had the will to do so a number of years ago. I mean, I'm not unfamiliar with this because I was involved as the then chairman of the Commonwealth with the troika meetings involving Nigeria and South Africa and I think those countries that neighbour Zimbabwe could have brought about his removal some time ago and it's very disappointing that they didn't do so.
MITCHELL:
Still, it would be a massive step for the Government to direct a sports body not to tour.
PRIME MINISTER:
Very, and that is a dilemma, I mean I don't like it but I'm jammed between my distaste for the Government getting involved in something like this and my even greater distaste for giving a propaganda victory to Robert Mugabe.
MITCHELL:
Shouldn't the International Cricket Council face up to this though? I mean they...
PRIME MINISTER:
I think the International Cricket Council has responsibilities, yes, but they're like any other body, they're answerable to their constituent members. Now I think there is some evidence emerging that even in those countries that would be very reluctant to see the ICC do anything that something ought to happen.
MITCHELL:
Is it correct that if Australia doesn't go to Zimbabwe the tour by India next summer could be in jeopardy?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there's talk about that but, in the end this just begs the question doesn't it? And the question is how long can the international cricket community, not just Australia, but how long can the international cricket community go on doing things that give aid and comfort to somebody who has thus far been totally impervious to any entreaties and the longer he goes, the older he gets, he is not going to change. I mean, apart from anything else he might well fear that if he were to go now he might face some kind of international criminal court trial.
MITCHELL:
Is it possible that we can look for another way such as making some compensation for Zimbabwe by say brining a dozen of their best young cricketers here to train at our academy rather than tour, rather than handing over money, cut Mugabe out of it and help Zimbabwe cricket.
PRIME MINISTER:
And how do you think they would suffer back in their own country?
MITCHELL:
I don't know.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think they would probably end up getting persecuted. See, the discussion I had with the Archbishop yesterday was quite chilling about the tactics that are employed and the brutality that is now practised on all sorts of people including a lot of churchmen and I'm not certain that Zimbabwean cricketers would want for their own safety reasons to be identified with some kind of scheme involving Australia seen as an alternative to giving comfort to Mugabe. I think in the present mood of the regime they would be scared to do so.
MITCHELL:
The tour could still go ahead then?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, let's work it through. We don't want it to go ahead, we're conducting a very constructive open dialogue with Cricket Australia and we have no desire to hurt Australian cricket, that would be the last thing that we would want to do and it does pain me to be in this position, but it really has got much worse in Zimbabwe than ever before and there's no doubt this will be a huge propaganda victory if the tour goes ahead. I mean, Australia is the greatest cricketing nation in the world and you can just imagine how this would be manipulated.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, just quickly on the Budget and we did talk about it earlier in the week, but $461 million in the Budget for Muslim assimilation. Why?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it's in the interest of everybody; I'm interested at how you arrived at that figure, I mean...
MITCHELL:
I'm quoting a report from the Herald Sun...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I'm not sure there's $461 million in total for Muslim assimilation. I think there are some programs, I don't think they amount to all of that but I'll have to check that.
MITCHELL:
And what's the reason?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there's every reason to try and assimilate, and I unapologetically use that word, assimilate a section of the community, a tiny minority of whose members have caused concern and after all once somebody's become a citizen of this country the best thing we can do is to absorb them into the mainstream.
MITCHELL:
But do we spend money though assimilating Hindus or Jews or other religions?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we have over a period of time spent money. We're not trying to assimilate people's religious beliefs...
MITCHELL:
No but this is based on religion...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well yes, but the reason that the religion is used as a descriptor is that it's a small category of radical Muslims that have adopted attitudes that we think are bad for the country and the most sensible thing to do is to try and change those attitudes. We're not trying to change people's religious beliefs.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a break, come back with more for the Prime Minister, calls for the Prime Minister as well. 9690 0693.
[Commercial break]
MITCHELL:
The Prime Minister's in the Canberra studio, quick call, Ivan go ahead.
CALLER:
Yes good morning Prime Minister how are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am well.
CALLER:
That's good. I would like to ask you a question on the assimilation of the Muslim community. Why do we always define the Muslim community as a nationality and not as a religion as the Muslim community is made up of many different nationalities?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we define them according to the facts. A common religious group is made up of people of different national origins and when you talk about Muslims, well you are talking about people that come from various countries.
MITCHELL:
By the way Prime Minister we are getting a message that apparently Kevin Andrews called our drive program yesterday, the Herald Sun quoted $461 million, page 2, on Wednesday, he said it was more like $400,000.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there you go.
MITCHELL:
There's quite a difference.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes there is a fair old difference. I expressed surprised when you mentioned the figure because I don't recall us ever approving that. $461,000, there you go.
MITCHELL:
Yes I think you would remember $460 million.
PRIME MINISTER:
I would.
MITCHELL:
David Hicks, will he be back next week?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I am not sure but he will be back soon. But I don't regard that as of any great moment. I don't see him as a hero and he's a confessed terrorist, a confessed trainee with terrorists, a terrorist organisation, but he will be back very soon. I don't know exactly when and I would not hope and expect any fanfare.
MITCHELL:
There's a danger he will come back a hero isn't there?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think so Neil. I think a lot of the people who were critical of the time that the trial had taken to come on did not have any sympathy for him. They were worried about the process, they were concerned about the principle of justice delayed is justice denied. That is what they were worried about, I don't think they thought Hicks was innocent. Most Australians believe Hicks was guilty of the crime for which he ultimately pleaded guilty.
MITCHELL:
I asked about this a few weeks ago, but it seems to have developed a little since, HIV positive people coming to this country. Now what's happened?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am getting advice from two Departments about whether we can, and I have written to the two Ministers and that advice is being gathered as to whether we should and what mechanisms might be employed to tighten the rules. And I expect to be considering that in the next week or 10 days. I have just been diverted on a few other things over the past couple of weeks as you will have noticed and when we have that, the Cabinet will have a look at the issue.
MITCHELL:
Well it's reported today the movements of HIV positive visitors, not residents could be monitored. Is that correct?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is a possibility, but until we've had a look at all of the potential changes, if they're desirable or if there are no changes desired, we've made that decision, I don't want to comment.
MITCHELL:
And on the Budget, Kevin Rudd's speech last night; the technical school idea would seem not a bad one. Now he's accepted parts of your Budget. Is there anything in his speech that you will accept?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am not going to criticise the spirit of his commitment to technical education after all he does follow the lead we gave in the last election when we, in effect, revived the cause of technical education in Australia by committing to the building of Australian Technical Colleges. Twenty-four of them are now operating, we have pledged three more. And since then a number of state governments have brought back dedicated technical schools within their state school system. So whilst we can perhaps debate whether you should have a bit of tech capacity in every school or whether you might better employ the resources in having dedicated technical schools or colleges which used to be the case many years ago and from which Australia should never have moved, I mean it's the greatest mistake we made in education in this country for decades was to move away from dedicated tech schools; whether you do it that way or you do it by having a bit in each school can be debated. But I am not going to criticise the spirit of something which after all follows a lead that we started back in the 2004 election campaign.
MITCHELL:
Anything in his speech that you will pinch?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I wouldn't have thought anything immediately appeals to me. I think the biggest contradiction about Mr Rudd last night is that he ran a TV ad to say that he was a fiscal conservative. Now you can say you're a fiscal conservative but you have got to act like one to be believed to be one. And when you have opposed getting the Budget into surplus, when you have opposed tax reform, when you have opposed industrial relations reform, when you have opposed the sale of Telstra the proceeds of which helped pay off the $96 billion debt, in other words, when you have opposed all the fiscally conservative measures that this Government has put up over the last few years, it's a bit rich to turn around and say oh despite all of that, just forget my behaviour, just read my lips. I am a fiscal conservative. Give us a break.
MITCHELL:
The unemployment figures are very good but this surely puts pressure on interest rates doesn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Not automatically. That...
MITCHELL:
Why not?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well because what puts pressure on interest rates is higher inflation.
MITCHELL:
This would mean higher job payments and therefore higher inflation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well not necessarily because now that we have a decentralised wage fixing system, which incidentally Mr Rudd wants to overturn as a fiscal conservative, of course; overturn and replace with a centralised system, you don't have this situation where high wages paid in the very prosperous sections of the economy automatically flow through to the rest. One of the amazing things about the boom we're experiencing at the moment is that there hasn't been a lot of upward pressure on wages and it's upward pressure on wages that is translated into inflation which in turn might put pressure on interest rates, so it's not automatically the case that because the unemployment rate has fallen by 0.1 of 1 per cent, and it's a great figure, I mean it's a wonderful figure, I addressed a school in Canberra, that one we were talking about early yesterday and to be able to say to those year 12 students, you are leaving school at a time where the job opportunities are greater than they have been for more than a generation was a great message to be able to communicate.
MITCHELL:
So would you hope to get to the election without another rise in interest rates?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh I don't want to see any more interest rate rises full stop, but that in the end is a matter for the Reserve Bank. But the principal determinant of interest rates is inflation and the Reserve Bank reduced its inflation forecast from 2.75 per cent to two and a half per cent only a couple of weeks ago and it's got a band which is two to three per cent for inflation. In other words, the Reserve Bank's own prediction is that inflation is slap bang in the middle of that band. Now on that basis there would not appear to be any case in the near future for a rise in interest rates, but I repeat, that is ultimately a matter for the Reserve Bank.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, two Australians killed in the Vietnam War, their bodies have been found, they're being confirmed now, but it seems 99 per cent sure that it's them. They'll be flown home by the Australian Government within the next few weeks. It should be a very important moment for the families and for the country, will you meet them do you think?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let me consider that.
MITCHELL:
I'm sure you're aware of the case?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I am aware of the case and I'm always, it's always important with these things to have regard to the feelings of families. I'm always respectful in relation to these things, the wishes of families and sometimes families are not keen that what are very private moments for them, become public events.
MITCHELL:
No, that's true. Even if they have that view that it should be private it's a pretty important time.
PRIME MINISTER:
It is a very important time.
MITCHELL:
Tony Blair, an assessment?
PRIME MINISTER:
A very courageous person, somebody I like immensely. He took on his own party over a very difficult issue and that was Iraq. He believed in the importance of western countries standing together on these things and I agreed with him. He did have the courage when he was Opposition Leader to tell his Party that it had to change its links with the trade union movement if it was to succeed and in particular he did have the courage to tell his Party that the industrial relations reforms of the Thatcher Government should be kept rather than overturned.
MITCHELL:
You've turned Tony Blair around to an attack on Kevin Rudd.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I didn't mention Mr Rudd, you did, but you, I mean, I'm making the point that courage and strong policy and consistency is as much a requirement of an opposition as it is of a government and this really goes back to my point earlier. You can say you're a fiscal conservative but if you don't act like a fiscal conservative you can't claim to be a fiscal conservative.
MITCHELL:
And East Timor, Jose Ramos Horta.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well congratulations. I think he was the hope of the side, I don't want to be disrespectful to his opponent, but now that he's won I can say that he has done...I think he will be good and he's a person of great dedication and he's a good friend of Australia's and that's very important.
MITCHELL:
A good week for you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, but I don't think there's going to be any big bounce in the opinion polls. I don't...
MITCHELL:
Do you feel you're back in the race though?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think what's happened over the last two or three weeks is that Labor's been revealed again to have no economic credibility. Their industrial relations policy is one that will reimpose unfair dismissal laws on small business and that will stunt jobs growth in the small business sector. I mean, those unemployment figures yesterday are in part due to the removal of the unfair dismissal laws. I can't say how much, you can't prove that, but clearly they're part of it and the unwillingness of the Labor Party to allow Australian Workplace Agreements, especially in the mining industry just shows that when push comes to shove union power is more important than economic responsibility.
MITCHELL:
I think I was one of the two people in the world watching Question Time yesterday in the Federal Parliament, but there did seem to be a new sense of confidence amongst your frontbench. Would that be a fair comment?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we certainly know that the Labor Party has compromised its economic credentials and in the end that is tremendously important, but I don't expect there to be any significant turnaround in the polls. I think people are reading too much into the last few weeks to...
MITCHELL:
So when will this be decided? The last couple of weeks?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the last election you may remember, the polls were showing Mr Latham in there with a very good chance until the campaign started.
MITCHELL:
So you're still the underdog.
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not boasting that I'm going to win as my opponent is. I mean, he was up there in Brisbane saying I'm going to win. Well gee; my experience is that the Australian people don't like anybody telling them who they're going to vote for until they decide who they're going to vote for.
MITCHELL:
Thank you very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]