Subject:
AFL broadcasting deal; National Plan for Water Security; anti-terrorism laws; David Hicks; education
E&OE...
Labor governments, the extreme green position has dominated their thinking and there's a danger, of course, that that will happen in relation to climate change. That's why I think the coal industry has every reason to be concerned about some of the implications of what Labor is saying on climate change.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a break, come back with more from the Prime Minister, including your calls.
[commercial break]
MITCHELL:
The Prime Minister is in our Canberra studio, Mr Howard do you still believe that David Hicks is guilty.
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't know whether he is guilty or not.
MITCHELL:
But you've told me in the past that he clearly was guilty because he was found on the spot.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well guilty, perhaps I should re-phrase that to say that, you know, it's for a court, a tribunal to decide in a legal sense whether he is guilty, but one of the reasons why I have believed that the right thing to do was to have him face a tribunal was that he was found on the spot so to speak. He has acknowledged training with Al Qaeda, it is a matter of acceptance that even after the 11th of September, 2001, in the full knowledge of what has happened, he returned to the Taliban so they are the reasons why I believe that he should face a tribunal. I am very unhappy that it's taken so long.
MITCHELL:
You said by the middle of February, now it does seem most unlikely charges will be laid by the middle of February (inaudible), what happens if the deadline passes?
PRIME MINISTER:
Except the charging process has begun and the laying of charges in America under this system is not directly analogous to the laying of charges in Australian courts.
MITCHELL:
So have they moved far enough have they to satisfy your deadline?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think the charging process has begun and I think it is reasonable to see that as satisfying your deadline, but I am quite concerned though about the potential delay between the publication and the swearing of the charges, and the establishment of the convening authority which has to formerly approve the charges. Let me, without getting into the weeds of the technical jargon, let me simply say that it has gone on for so long now that we will be pressing the Americans almost on a daily basis.
MITCHELL:
Would you raise it with George Bush?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I have already done so.
MITCHELL:
Will you do so again?
PRIME MINISTER:
If appropriate, yes.
MITCHELL:
Because we are told it could be a year before he goes...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that would be quite unacceptable to us, quite unacceptable.
MITCHELL:
What can you do about?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let's just see how the process of charging him unfolds and let us see what happens to the bringing forward of the Military Commission. Quite plainly we would be very unhappy and would regard it as unacceptable for their to be a delay of anything like a year or anything approaching it in his actually being tried by the Military Commission.
MITCHELL:
Okay so just to get it clear, you did you say you wanted him charged by the middle of February, but you are now satisfied that that's been met by the process that they are now...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I believe the process of charging him has begun but we are, I suppose, transferring our concern to the time between the charging process and him actually being brought to trial before the Military Commission and we would not regarded it as acceptable that there be a delay of anything remotely resembling a year.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, the APEC meeting in September, is there any possibility the election will be held before that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't know. I think it's more likely than not that the election will be held around the end of the year but I haven't turned my mind to the timing of the election.
MITCHELL:
The reason I ask, George Bush is coming to the APEC meeting, George Bush is increasingly under criticism in his own country and in this country, politically is that not dangerous for you to be up there with George Bush?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look he is the President of the United States and he is also somebody that I have a political friendship with and I don't desert my friends, that's not my nature. I recognise that he's not popular in a lot of circles in Australia.
MITCHELL:
Do you think that could damage you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is a matter for others to decide, but I am not somebody who turns my back on my allies or friends. And it's not just a personal relationship between Bush and myself, I mean we get on quite well but we don't, you know, want to carry it to absurd degrees. But the alliance between Australia and the Untied States is fundamental to this country's future security and even though the decision to go into Iraq was always unpopular in this country, and even though it has not gone as well as I would have liked, this is the worst time in the world to be turning our backs on the United States because that could have implications for future security and terrorism issues in our own region and it is not in my nature to do that and I am not going to turn my back on the Americans. I will argue the toss with them over certain things, and as I have just demonstrated in relation to David Hicks, I really am getting extremely frustrated at the length of time that has been taken and we are making it very clear the Americans on a regular basis, that talk of the thing being delayed for another year or so would be quite unacceptable.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a call, Omar go ahead please.
CALLER:
Yeah thanks Neil and Prime Minister thanks a lot for the opportunity. It's a bit closer to home, my younger brother was arrested in Melbourne on terrorism-related charges in November 2005 and is it possible to ask a couple of questions while I am here?
MITCHELL:
Omar just be a little bit careful here, I assume he's facing charges is he?
CALLER:
Correct.
MITCHELL:
And I know he hasn't been to trial if he is one of that group. So you can't go to the heart of the charges. You can ask general questions, but you can't talk about the case.
CALLER:
No, I am fully aware of that Neil. Mr Howard, just firstly, the new anti-terror laws in your opinion are they effective or do they specifically target devout Australian Muslims firstly?
PRIME MINISTER:
No they don't target devout Australian Muslims, they target law breakers, and they target people who represent a terrorist threat to this country and it doesn't matter whether they are Muslim or Catholic or Protestant or Buddhist or atheist or agnostic or black or white, that's not the point. The point is that they target potential law breakers and terrorists and we need them because we are living in a different era. I mean anybody who says we are not living in a different era has been asleep for the last 10 years and they didn't know that September 11 happened, they didn't know that 88 Australians were killed in Bali, they didn't know that bombs were put on the London underground in 2005. I mean, I sometimes wonder in this debate that we haven't...we've forgotten in such a short period of time what has occurred around the world, and I find it incredible that people should be more preoccupied with the victims...I am sorry the perpetrators rather than the victims.
MITCHELL:
Another, quick, one more quick one Omar.
CALLER:
Okay, very quickly, look my brother's served quite...a fair bit of time now at the high security unit at the Barwon Prison shackled, isolated, Guantanamo Bay jumpsuits etcetera. It looks like his trial won't start for ages, do you think that is fair, Mr Howard that for a country that bases itself on democracy and freedom of speech that someone can be detained for so long even with the trial commencing.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am quite certain that he is being treated in accordance with the criminal justice system of this country which I believe is very fair and is one of the fairest in the world, beyond that I am not going to comment on his particular circumstances.
MITCHELL:
Omar just before you go, I want to point out, I assume this is the case where, and this has been alleged publicly in court, that there was discussion by, allegedly, by a group that the Prime Minister should be a target?
CALLER:
Yeah, they are allegations at this stage.
MITCHELL:
Of course they are allegations but I just thought it needs that context. Thank you very much for calling. Prime Minister, the Premiers rejecting nuclear power.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think they are short-sighted. I cannot understand how anybody who wants a long-term solution to climate change can rule out the nuclear option. You have Labor right across the country, the Federal Opposition, Mr Rudd, because Peter Garrett has a long-standing ideological opposition to nuclear energy, nuclear power, I cannot understand why it is ruled out. The Chief Scientist has said as recently as last December that to run power stations there are really only two ways, either you do it through fossil fuel, that's coal etcetera or nuclear power. You can't run power stations on wind and solar.
MITCHELL:
Can the states frustrate it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think they can make it difficult but in the end they may not be able to stop it but the important thing is that we keep it on the table. I mean, in the end, reality will mug even the most obdurate state and the reality is that if you want all the options on the table, if you want to have the cleanest source of power generation that can be available, you've got to keep nuclear power as one of the options.
MITCHELL:
You're reported as saying you believe, today, that education is being dumbed down?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I do.
MITCHELL:
How?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think the curricula, I think the way in which people have drifted away from proper study of English literature and tests. I think the retreat in many parts of the country from the routine of examinations, I am something of a traditionalist when in comes to education. I think you've got to treat history in a narrative sense, I think we've moved away from that.
MITCHELL:
Once again can you require the states to do it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are in the process of doing that and we've had some progress. It's now a little more than a year since I made a major speech about the teaching of Australian history and I think there's been quite a return in that period of time to a teaching of the narrative approach to Australian history.
MITCHELL:
Would you ever link funding to this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we have in certain respects and we'll certainly link funding to an increasing harmonisation of curricula.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister did you see Malcolm Turnbull and Peter Garrett last night debating?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I did.
MITCHELL:
I think I know who you thought won, but how would give Malcolm Turnbull, what are his points for his first week, out of 10?
PRIME MINISTER:
I thought he did well. Look I thought he did well I am not going to start scoring people.
MITCHELL:
Tony Abbott took him aside and gave him some lessons.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, well I thought Joe Hockey did well and I thought Andrew Robb did well, and they're...Malcolm and Andrew, bear in mind it is their very first week.
MITCHELL:
Is he a future Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think Peter Costello is the next leader of the Liberal Party and therefore I believe and hope the next Prime Minister. I think Malcolm has got a lot to contribute but I think anybody who thinks that Peter Costello is not the logical successor to me if I were to go under a bus in the very near future...
MITCHELL:
That only leaves one question, when does the bus come?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am very... you know my answer to that, I am still very cautious. I haven't lost any of my caution when it comes to crossing roads Neil.
MITCHELL:
Thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
[ends]