Subject:
East Timor; Brian Burke; David Hicks.
E&OE...
STEFANOVIC:
But first this morning it's been any extraordinary few days in politics with the sacking of Federal Cabinet Minister Ian Campbell and mounting pressure on Kevin Rudd to go the same way all over the Brian Burke scandal, of course. Well joining us from Kirribilli House this morning is Prime Minister John Howard. Good morning to you Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Karl.
STEFANOVIC:
PM, to Brian Burke and Kevin Rudd in a moment, but first, the situation developing in East Timor, where Australian soldiers are hunting down rebel leader Alfredo Reinado. What is the latest there?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't have anything to add to what was said by the ADF and the Brigadier on the ground yesterday. There are operations under way. The objective is to take into custody Reinado. That has not occurred. There have been no casualties suffered by the Australian forces. There has been some augmentation of those forces over recent days, but for operational reasons which I hope you and your listeners will understand, I don't want to go into further detail about that.
STEFANOVIC:
Alright, will our forces, PM, as Mr Downer suggested, hunt and kill Reinado if necessary?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well our objective is to take him into custody. Our objective is very clear. Obviously, in a situation like that, we prefer taking people into custody and we are hopeful that that objective will be achieved. But he is a fugitive, he did escape and he does have people around him. And his continued activities are a threat to the security of East Timor and it's preferable that that threat be neutralised. But the objective, obviously, is to take him into custody and that is an objective we'll go on pursuing. But I don't wish to get into operational issues. It's never a good idea for Prime Ministers or indeed anybody else to be giving running commentary on what are essentially military operations. It's much better that the words on those things be given out by military spokesmen.
STEFANOVIC:
Alright, you must be concerned though at the level of violence on the streets of Dili. Any consideration to sending in more reinforcements at this stage?
PRIME MINISTER:
We have adequate people there at the present time. There has been some addition to those forces, but, as I say, I don't want to go into the details of that. I am satisfied on the advice of the Chief of the Defence Force that we do have adequate forces there at the present time.
STEFANOVIC:
Alright, closer to home now, are you pursuing Kevin Rudd's resignation as Opposition Leader?
PRIME MINISTER:
What I'm wanting is Mr Rudd to come clean. Everybody realises that he had those three contacts with Mr Burke in order to pursue his political ambitions. And they were legitimate, there's nothing wrong with people having ambition. And it really is very foolish of Mr Rudd not only to have potentially got into debt to Mr Burke; I mean this is a very serious error of judgment to behave in a way that you might be indebted to a person like Mr Burke. And he has compounded that very big error of judgment by covering up the real circumstances of those meetings and as each day goes by and he refuses to come clean about what actually did happen, he only compounds the original error of judgment.
STEFANOVIC:
You don't think he should resign though?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look the question of his future is a matter for assessment by his colleagues and the Australian people. They will decide his future. But what the Australian people want now, and what I'm asking for; and I think, increasingly, everybody is asking for, is for him to come clean about what actually took place at those gatherings. I mean he is the alternative Prime Minister of Australia and when the AWB inquiry was going on, Mr Downer and Mr Vaile were meant to remember every paragraph of thousands of overseas cables, and when they didn't, they were accused of covering up, they were accused of corruption, they were accused of behaving like Sergeant Schultz. And the person who led the accusations was Kevin Rudd. I mean he was absolutely merciless in his demands in relation to their behaviour. In the end, of course, a Royal Commission cleared their names completely. Now we have a simple situation here where Mr Rudd was obviously trying to curry favour in Western Australia. He admitted on radio the very day that the meeting took place in Western Australia that he still had a knapsack, a baton in his knapsack, a leadership baton in his knapsack; nothing wrong with that. A lot of people have ambition, I am not criticising him for ambition, I am criticising him for lack of candour. And that I think is what the Australian people want from him.
STEFANOVIC:
Alright PM, if it comes down to character and honesty, who will win the next election between you and Mr Rudd?
PRIME MINISTER:
The next election will be won on a lot of things and I have never said anything other than it is going to go a very difficult election for the Government. But Mr Rudd keeps avoiding the issue. Whenever he's asked why doesn't he tell all, he says oh let's have another election and he raises things that are irrelevant. I mean you always know somebody is evading giving a difficult answer when they raise another issue. He's said, will you tell us everything that happened, he says well let's have an election. That's not an answer, that's an evasion and he should answer the question. He should address the substance of the charge and not try and divert public attention by calling for an early election, again, of course, demonstrating his inexperience. If you had an election now, you'd have to have a separate half-Senate election next year. It just shows his inexperience. He doesn't even understand how our political system works.
STEFANOVIC:
So I take it a snap poll, an early election is off the cards?
PRIME MINISTER:
There will be an election at the normal time. We have three year terms which are fairly short. I mean the idea that you would contemplate having an election now is ludicrous and he knows that. It's just an attempt to take the gaze off the issue. I mean the issue is what happened, and why he didn't tell us in the first place, and why he's covered up. I mean, it's a very simple proposition. If he acknowledged the obvious, then I wouldn't be here talking to you about this issue.
STEFANOVIC:
Have you brokered a deal with Senator Campbell to reinstate him after the next election?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I have not. I have not brokered any deal. I've made no promises to Senator Campbell. I have said, both to him privately, the same as I've said publicly, that there's no reason why he can't serve in a future Coalition Government. But whether he does would be a matter for assessment by me if we win the next election at the time. But I have not made any promise. I did not say to him if you stand down, I'll promise to bring you back after the election. I didn't do that. But I did say to him there's no reason why he can't serve in the future, but that does not represent a promise. There's no reason why a lot of people can't serve in a future Coalition Government. I just wanted to make the point that, although he did make an error of judgment, it's not such that it forever prohibits him from ever serving in a future Coalition Government.
STEFANOVIC:
But it's worthy of his resignation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he did make an error of judgment. I mean he should have known; I mean he knew the day before that Mr Burke was coming. And what Senator Campbell should have really done was to have sent the message to the WA Turf Club saying look, happy to see you, but don't bring your lobbyist. Now that was easy. I very rarely see business people or community groups with lobbyists. Very, very rare indeed. I mean I deal with principals and I think that's a very sensible thing to do.
STEFANOVIC:
PM, significant developments, I am sure you would know about in the David Hicks trial or case, and it seems his military lawyer Michael Mori could be removed from the case and charged with using contemptuous language, further delaying the Hicks trial. Will you now say to the United States, bring David Hicks home?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what I will say to the United States, again this morning, is what I've said twice to President Bush over the phone and once to Vice President Cheney in person, that we are very angry at the delay and we want the trial brought on as quickly as possible. Now it is obvious that as a result of those representations, things have accelerated. A lot has happened in the past few weeks and I believe that's the direct result of the representations I've made. We would not regard a further significant delay as being acceptable. That is all I am willing to say at the present time, for obvious reasons. I don't know what's going to happen to Major Mori, that's a matter for the American authorities. He's a Pentagon lawyer assigned to defend David Hicks. That is an internal matter for the Americans. I would expect that to be resolved by the Americans, and I'm not going to offer a comment on that. I've not had any dealings with him. Mr Downer and others in my office have dealt with his Adelaide lawyer, Mr McLeod, who's a very sensible man to deal with and he's doing his best for his client. But I am not going to interfere in anything that's happening in the United States except to repeat that we are very angry that it's taken so long. And I share the views of millions of Australians that justice delayed is justice denied and the delay here has been unacceptable and we really require the meticulous observance of a speedy pathway, or the meticulous travelling of a speedy pathway, towards a trial.
STEFANOVIC:
PM you would know that the Australian public believe your rhetoric has changed significantly in the last few months and that is related to the fact that you are going to the polls?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well my rhetoric and my actions reflect my views. My rhetoric and my actions reflect my views that although I will defend the original decision to have Hicks tried before a revamped Military Commission, I am very unhappy that it's taken so long to get to this point. And my concern about this issue has been gathering now for some months. Now I know there's a penchant in Australian politics to relate everything to the next election, which means that you can't do anything because it might affect the next election, because we have elections so very quickly, and Mr Rudd apparently would like to have them even more quickly. Three years is a very short time. I mean I have been expressing concern about this issue now for some time and because I am concerned about it. I defend the original decision. I was not willing to see him brought back to Australia without a trial in America because we couldn't charge him here. But I am very angry that it has taken so long and we are watching it on a daily basis.
STEFANOVIC:
Prime Minister, we appreciate your time as always. Thank you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]