Subject:
Senator Ian Campbell, Kevin Rudd, Brian Burke
E&OE...
UHLMANN:
Prime Minister good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Chris.
UHLMANN:
Why did Senator Campbell have to go over a meeting which you yourself have described as benign?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he displayed bad judgement, he knew Mr Burke's background, he is a West Australian Senator, he could have done his job and seen the turf authorities who wanted to talk to him about an issue that arose within his own portfolio. He knew the day before that Mr Burke would be there and although he behaved innocently, it did exercise and show poor judgement. He ought to have been aware of the sensitivity given the background of Mr Burke of dealing with him and in those circumstances it's a difficult issue and it's a hard call for him but he offered his resignation. Now, there is of course a great difference between his intent in having that meeting, he was merely showing a disposition to listen to some people who had a view to put to him within his own portfolio but in the circumstances I felt there was no alternative but to accept his resignation.
UHLMANN:
Yes we will come to Mr Rudd in just a moment, but is bad judgement now the measure of a ministerial career. If ministers show bad judgement in future will they lose their jobs?
PRIME MINISTER:
Chris it depends entirely on the circumstances you know that. There is no simple rule in relation to ministerial responsibility, it has always depended a great deal on circumstances and it always will in the future.
UHLMANN:
Shouldn't this action over the weekend be seen as completely political in character?
PRIME MINISTER:
No.I think it should be seen as recognising that people do have to exercise very good judgement.
UHLMANN:
Does the standard apply to meetings with Mr Burke and his business partner Julian Grill. So if ministers have met with Julian Grill, is the same standard to apply?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it depends entirely on the circumstancesare. I am not going to answer hypothetical questions, I had a particular situation and I've dealt with that situation and Senator Campbell has done the right thing.
UHLMANN:
Are business leaders who meet with Mr Burke compromised?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well business leaders are not aspiring to be Prime Minister of Australia.
UHLMANN:
But do you think that it compromises them, not just (inaudible) but to pay for his services?
PRIME MINISTER:
This is all about the candour of the man who puts himself forward as the alternative Prime Minister of Australia, a man incidentally who virtually every day for six months accused some of my ministers of corruption and cover up in relation to AWB and that was demonstrated to be completely false because they were cleared by none less than a Royal Commission and this is about somebody who wants to be Prime Minister. These comparisons with business people are irrelevant, they are not aspiring to be Prime Minister. They can answer for themselves I am not going to get into some generic response on behalf of the business community. I am focussing on a situation where the alternative Prime Minister of this country displayed very bad judgement in dealing with Mr Burke. He was obviously in those gatherings, particularly the dinner seeking some kind of how shall we put it, favour support and preferment from Burke and people associated with him. There's nothing wrong with people being ambitious but he showed very bad judgement in having those contacts and he has compounded that very bad judgement by covering up the true nature of the meetings. We wouldn't be talking on this program this morning about this issue if Mr Rudd had been more forthcoming about the circumstances.
UHLMANN:
So you are saying what's in question now is not just what he did in 2005 but his explanation of it last Thursday?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well certainly his explanations have been unconvincing and they have been contradicted by people who were there, they have been contradicted by the email. I think they were also contradicted by his own frontbench colleague, Stephen Smith who yesterday on Insiders said that he always knew Mr Burke was going to be there yet the impression was given, although it wasn't actually said, the impression was given by Mr Rudd that it was all a bit of an accident.
UHLMANN:
Now Mr Rudd has admitted to a lapse of judgement. Why shouldn't that be enough?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think he should come clean and I think the Australian public believes he should come clean. I don't think it is just enough I think he should reflect on what he said at that news conference, he should acknowledge that the real purpose of the gathering was not as he has described it and that he should acknowledge the conflict between what he said last Thursday and has continued to say and the reality of that gathering because you are not dealing here with somebody who's in business, you are not dealing here with somebody who is a lobbyist, you are dealing here with somebody who wants to be Prime Minister of Australia.
[ends]