Subject:
Polls; National Plan for Water Security; Iraq, David Hicks; North Korea; cricket
E&OE...
HUTCHISON:
Perth really is the political and economic hot spot at the moment, the Prime Minister joins me in the studio, Prime Minister good morning to you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Perth is always a hot spot
HUTCHISON:
Yes, nice to see....
PRIME MINISTER:
Economically and in so many other ways, it's a great place to visit and I do so regularly.
HUTCHISON:
Nice to see Cabinet here though for the first time in 10 years. Prime Minister.......
PRIME MINISTER:
No, it has been here before in the lifetime of this Government.
HUTCHISON:
Prime Minister, can I begin with the Newspoll which shows Kevin Rudd has established a 10 point lead as preferred Prime Minister, then he skips into town, he's stalking you politically, is he now trying to spoil the party a bit in Perth?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, my response to all of these questions about polls is to resolve to work even harder for the Australian people and this week the most important thing that I can do for the Australian people, but I'll need some cooperation and help from some Premiers, is to achieve agreement on our water plan for the Murray-Darling Basin. This is very much about the water security future of Australia and as always, the Australian people want their political leaders to work hard and to deliver outcomes and I hope that on Friday of this week we can reach agreement. I'm a little concerned with some of the comments that some of the Premiers have been making. They started off being fairly enthusiastic but I'm worried that the politics of a federal election year maybe intruding and clouding their attitude. I just want to appeal to them to put that aside. It is in the national interest that we reach an agreement on this plan, it's a heaven sent opportunity to try and do something of a lasting character and it would be an awful indictment on cooperative federalism if we couldn't reach agreement on what is a very big plan. A lot of extra money, all coming from the Commonwealth, we're not asking the states to contribute anything, we're asking, naturally, that they refer their powers because this is an interstate river system and I just do ask the Premiers to put politics aside. We've achieved things together in the past across the political divide and the Australian public wants their political leaders to do the same thing on this.
HUTCHISON:
I understand an unwillingness perhaps to talk about whether or not Kevin Rudd is the preferred Prime Minister, but the polls are suggesting that the electorate is in the mood for a real contest. Yesterday you announced up to 70 military trainers will join troops in Iraq, does this provide an exit strategy for you closer to election time, to if necessary bring soldiers home but leave a skeleton maybe of non-military support there?
PRIME MINISTER:
No that's not the design at all. I'm quite happy to talk about the substance of that issue. Everybody wants the Iraqis to be able to stand on their own feet. The Labor Party wants that, we want that, everybody wants that; everybody wants the day to arrive when foreign forces, including Australians, can be pulled out of Iraq. But we take the view you can't and shouldn't pull them out until the Iraqis are able to stand on their own feet. And that is why I find Mr Rudd's opposition to sending more trainers inexplicable because this is the way you help the Iraqis stand on their own two feet.
HUTCHISON:
Mr Howard, Mr Rudd this morning said that your policies in this area represent the greatest single failure of national security policy since Vietnam, he even called you a national security risk.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I heard that interview and what I found interesting about it was that he didn't address the substance of my charge. My charge is that Mr Rudd is walking both sides of the street, my charge is that Mr Rudd on this issue, as on a number of other issues, is having a bet each way. He says he wants the Iraqis to stand on their own two feet, he says we should enable that to come about but when I provide a method of making that more likely, he opposes it. And when he was asked this on your companion program this morning he avoided the issue by a long political commentary on my sins of both omission and comission. We all know Mr Rudd is critical of me in relation to foreign policy issues as I am of him, but I think we have an obligation to address the substance of these issues. It is no answer to my charge of walking both sides of the street for Mr Rudd to say that he thought we should have never been in Iraq in the first place. He's got to answer the specific claim I make and the claim I make is that you cannot simultaneously, retain your credibility, you can't retain your credibility by simultaneously saying we want the Iraqis to look after themselves but we oppose any steps Australia takes to help them to achieve that result.
HUTCHISON:
He says they can provide training services in Amman?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, that's in another country. I mean everybody knows, as an exercise in commonsense, that you provide far better training in country, you provide far better training in the conditions in which the people you are training are familiar. Now I mean that is just so obvious that he surely must understand that. I mean he's groping around for some kind of explanation on this but I know our Iraq policy is not popular, I understand that, but it's right and it is wrong in my view to walk out until the job is done. And there's no doubt that if all foreign troops were withdrawn now, or in the very near future, then Iraq would descend into total civil war, there would be victory for the terrorists, America would be humiliated and that would be very bad for Australia's national security interests. So I will go on arguing our case and I again say to Mr Rudd, how can you simultaneously say you want the Iraqis to stand on their own two feet but you will not provide them with some of the wherewithal to bring about that result and surely everybody agrees that training the Iraqi army and the Iraqi police to do a better job is more likely to hasten the day when foreign forces can withdraw. I mean, it's a matter of elementary commonsense and I'm amazed that Mr Rudd is opposed to it. And again I say he's walking both sides of the street, he's doing the same thing on the water plan.
HUTCHISON:
Prime Minister can I ask you, when will you be meeting US Vice President Dick Cheney?
PRIME MINISTER:
On Saturday, he'll be seeing others later in the week but I'll be seeing him on Saturday.
HUTCHISON:
A year ago I would suggest that meeting would have had a much higher profile, Saturday's a pretty low point in the news cycle...
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think a meeting with the American Vice President will fail to attract a media crowd. I'm sorry what are you suggesting?
HUTCHISON:
I guess the point is that a year ago hand shakes with Dick Cheney would've been a much more...a higher profile media opportunity in this country.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm sorry, I fail to see the point you're making.
HUTCHISON:
The point I'm making......is this a timely visit from the Vice President?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he nominated, he nominated...I mean this really is, with respect, a bit silly. He nominated the time that he was able to be here and are you suggesting that I deliberately chose Saturday morning to see him? The reason I can't see him until Saturday morning is that I am here in Western Australia until Thursday, and then I'm meeting the Premiers to talk about the water plan on Friday and I wasn't going to interrupt any of those things and I think I would've been criticised if I had. I mean, the most important thing I do this week is to try and secure agreement on the water plan, that transcends anything else because this is about years and years into the future of water security for our country. And I'm trying hard and I ask the Premiers to put aside politics, don't get the idea that somehow or other it's more important to string this out, politically, than to reach an agreement. I just hope that politics of a federal election year won't intrude because we're offering all the money and it's been widely supported by the experts this plan because it does offer a long term solution to a hugely difficult problem.
HUTCHISON:
Prime Minister, when you announced that $10 billion water reform policy, it was warmly greeted and it's certainly become more complicated as details are coming forward and much of the attention has been on the future of the Murray. Right now, in fact right now, your political opponent's standing on the banks of the Canning Dam announcing a very specific commitment to the Harvey irrigation project, $49 million, can you similarly be specific about WA's share of water reform money?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I certainly can. I can indicate that the Harvey scheme was the subject of an application last year and the National Water Commission, which is a joint Commonwealth/state body is nearing its completion in its assessment. And the proper thing to do with these projects, the proper thing to do is to have them assessed by the expert body first before you make a decision. Now has Mr Rudd had this assessed by the expert body? I'm not aware of that. I mean we are being told by the Premiers that we have to have expert advice. Now I say to the people of Western Australia, of course you will get your fair share of the $10 billion and you're getting your fair share of the $2 billion National Water Fund. Mr Turnbull will be announcing a number of projects affecting Western Australia later this week, he's the water Minister, but in relation to Harvey though, there's already an application before the Commonwealth Government for funding of a project, it's been submitted by the irrigation agency, it was not submitted by the state government and when the assessment by the National Water Commission has been completed, and I'm sure everybody, including the Opposition, believes in due process - I don't know whether Mr Rudd's followed any due process, I mean, anyway, he can explain that - but we are having this assessed and when it's completed we will make an announcement on the funding. But can I make the more point...the more general point that Western Australia, even though it's obviously not part of the Murray-Darling Basin, will get it's fair share of the $10 billion. I made that known when I announced the plan and I actually nominated areas like Harvey irrigation as an example. Now the current proposal is to fund it out of the existing $2 billion fund, but either way it's eligible and this $10 billion is not limited to the Murray-Darling Basin states, although necessarily because of the large bulk of the irrigation system of Australia coming from the Murray-Darling, it'll get most of it.
HUTCHISON:
On that subject do you have any enthusiasm for Peter Beattie's plan to perhaps pipe water from Queensland to feed the Murray?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm quite happy for it to be examined but let that not hold up, or divert, or delay or derail consideration of our plan. We have to make a decision on Friday. It's up to all of the Premiers coming to that meeting to indicate whether they're prepared to join the plan. I mean, I am receptive to sensible suggestions that don't in any way undermine the balance of the plan and what we're trying to achieve.
HUTCHISON:
Do you think the Premier's are fair dinkum?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I worry. They started off being a lot more enthusiastic, but as time has gone by they seem to have lost enthusiasm and I was particularly disappointed with the remarks made by Mr Bracks in the paper this morning. I mean we are offering all of the money, the whole $10 billion, we're not asking them to contribute a cent.
HUTCHISON:
Do they want to wait and do business with Kevin Rudd in The Lodge?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't know. If they do, they are not doing the right thing by the people who elected them. See I'm a Liberal, they're all Labor, the Australian people decided that and I have an obligation to work across the political divide with Labor Premiers. I mean I haven't gone around the country signing up a separate plan with the Liberal Opposition leaders and saying to the Labor Premiers, well here it is and this is what I want you to agree with. I deal with the elected leaders of the various states and they have a similar obligation to deal in good faith with me and I'm asking that that spirit of cooperation and good faith be brought to the table on Friday because the country is watching this, Australians want water security addressed, it's the biggest environmental and conservation issue of our age, it's something we can do something about in our lifetime. Many of the things relating to climate change, even if we started with drastic things now, you're not going to see any benefit in our lifetime. This is something a lot more immediate, a lot more practical and therefore it is something that we have to address.
HUTCHISON:
Prime Minister, can we talk about climate change, if this election was being held on your economic credentials, you may well be unbeatable, but if you do have to fight it on issues like climate change, how do you convince people that deep down and underneath John Howard doesn't still remain the sceptic?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm a realist, I'm not a sceptic, I'm a realist. I think some of the stuff that's around at the moment is too alarmist but on the other hand I think the evidence is very strong that mankind has made a contribution to the warming of our globe, to put it in it's simplest terms. I think that evidence is strong and I do think we have to take practical measures and Malcolm Turnbull's announcing one today in relation to the phasing out incandescent light bulbs. Now here's something practical that everybody will participate in. They'll be a bit dearer to start off with, but over time they'll be less expensive and they'll last four to 10 times longer. So we need to take practical measures in order to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. But in the end you asked me what are elections decided on? They're decided on a variety of things, one of the main things they're decided on is who is best able to guarantee the continued prosperity of this country and I don't think there's any doubt that this Government has a very impressive record on economic management and the Labor Party would now have you believe that their policy on economics is the same as ours. You could have fooled me. For the last 10 years they've tried to block every single reform measure from industrial relations, to tax reform, to getting the Budget back into surplus, so I think that is a rather hollow claim and one, of course, that we'll be talking about a great deal over the months ahead.
HUTCHISON:
Prime Minister is David Hicks an election issue?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think David Hicks' continued detention without trial is worrying people, it worries me.
HUTCHINSON:
Has it always worried you?
PRIME MINISTER:
As time has gone by it has worried me more because the amount of time that he has been in detention has increased. I mean obviously at the early stages one could accept that establishing the Military Commission process with such a large number of detainees it was reasonable that there be some delay and even in our civilian court process here there is often quite a long delay between somebody being arrested and somebody finally being brought to trial. But five years is far too long.
HUTCHINSON:
So what can be done about it Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what we can do is on a regular basis raise our concerns with the Americans and press them. I had an opportunity to do that this morning. I spoke to President Bush this morning, he rang to talk to me about the situation in North Korea, that was the purpose of his phone call and we had a lengthy discussion about North Korea.
HUTCHINSON:
I am happy to discuss that in a moment, what did you say to him about David Hicks?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I said that, again, and I'd raised Hicks with him the last time I spoke to him only a few weeks ago, I said that there was intense feeling in Australia that it had taken far too long. He acknowledged that, he understood that, he was sensitive to that and I said that there could be no more significant slippage in the process of moving towards David Hicks in getting his day in court, that the concern in this country was in relation to his continued detention without trial. I mean that is my concern because I do believe in the rule of law, I think people no matter what the circumstances of a case are...
HUTCHINSON:
Were there any assurances?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well his assurance was, and it was a very direct assurance, that he would again reinforce to the authorities in the United States the need for the matter to be dealt with, with all possible expedition. And I left him in no doubt during our discussion that this was an issue of great concern to the Australia people, not a judgement as to whether Hicks is guilty or innocent but the fact that he's spent five years without a trial and that troubled us a great deal and he was left in no doubt that I am concerned and my fellow Australians are concerned about this.
HUTCHINSON:
Finally Prime Minster, I know time is going to beat us this morning, any update on those Six-Party Talks over North Korea?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the President is realistically optimistic, I can put it that way and so am I. We are going to be sending a diplomatic group to North Korea in the not to distant future, the next few weeks to put down some benchmarks about the restoration of our bilateral diplomatic relationship. You may recall that we in fact retained diplomatic relations with North Korea or established them with North Korea, and we want to go along with the agreement. It's better than the 1994 agreement which was only a bilateral one between America and North Korea, it does involve China and the other members of the Six-Party group and I think that's a great advantage.
HUTCHINSON:
Cricket starts in about an hour Prime Minister, any hope for us? They are resting two of their fast bowlers.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I know, but (inaudible) series a lot, but I have to say something in very strong defence of the Australian cricket team and Australian cricketers. One day cricket is notoriously, how shall I say, notoriously inadequate judge of long-term ascendancy and good form.
HUTCHINSON:
We'll leave it there Prime Minister thanks very much for joining me this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]