Subject:
Nuclear power, David Hicks, Investing in Our Schools, National Plan for Water Security, Iraq, cricket, Australian flag
E&OE...
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Simon.
BEAUMONT:
Thank you for your time this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Very nice to talk to you again.
BEAUMONT:
You too. Mr Howard, what date will we be going to the polls?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't know. It will be some time in the second half of the year, but I've not got the faintest idea now, in February, when it will be.
BEAUMONT:
Alright. Not even....so possibly October or November Mr Howard?
PRIME MINISTER:
Let us not spoil...waste time in an interview. I have no idea when the election is going to be and I'm just simply not going to engage in speculation about that. It's just a waste of time people asking me.
BEAUMONT:
Mr Howard, no doubt when we see you over in Perth over the next few days we'll see you over here walking, you're known for your fitness, you're known for your...certainly your physical fitness and your early morning walking routine. You'll be 68 later this year, are you too old for the intellectual cut and thrust of politics?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don't think age matters, it's the strength of somebody's intellect, the new ideas they bring, I think (inaudible) political scene at the moment, and I must say the oldest idea around at the moment in a contemporary and important political debate is the Labor Party's opposition to nuclear power. That is a relic of the 1970s, even the 1960s. Peter Garrett who is their spokesman on environmental matters first came to prominence, politically speaking, leading the Nuclear Disarmament Party. Now we're all against nuclear weapons but to be against nuclear power in 2007 is about as out of date and old in your ideas as one can imagine because if we are to ever fix this problem of climate change, the challenge of it, we have to have all of the options open to us and not close our minds in an old fashioned rejection, that's something that is very much part of the future solution. I entertained the President of Finland last week, now she's a socialist, a social Democrat, she wasn't very keen on nuclear power herself but she acknowledged that her country's electricity generation is 27 per cent attributable to nuclear power.
BEAUMONT:
Mr Howard even if you...lets go to that point, even if you are re-elected and you become our Prime Minister again, can you overrule the no new mines policy in Western Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well in the end, Simon, all government's have to take account of public opinion. I believe there has been a shift in public attitudes. The Labor Party is still way behind the times, they think on uranium and nuclear issues it's a big deal to get rid of the three mines policy. That's been old fashioned and out of date for 20 years. But people know in their hearts that if we are to effectively tackle climate change we've got to consider every option. Now nuclear power is not immediately economical because we're still using coal which is emitting large amounts of carbon dioxide, but as we clean up coal use and we get into clean coal technologies, coal use will become dearer and that's when nuclear power becomes more economically feasible. So I just quote it as an illustration of my argument that it's the relevance of somebody's ideas and the capacity of somebody's intellect to embrace new ideas that count rather than your precise age. I think the old....there are some people who are old at 40, there are other people who are of the same physical and mental agility of double that age, that's just human nature, I think we've all experienced that in our lives and politics is no different.
BEAUMONT:
You talk about a shift in public opinion Mr Howard, for some time now US Defense Secretary Robert Gates has confirmed that if David Hicks is tried and convicted, he can serve any prison term back here in Australia and we heard Mr Downer over the weekend say Hicks could be back in Australia before the end of the year. For five years your Government has paid scant attention to David Hicks' plight, now you want this process completed before the end of the year. Are you actively working behind the scenes, or your Government actively working behind the scenes to bring him home before the election? Have you set a deadline with the US authorities?
PRIME MINISTER:
We continue to press the Americans to waste no time in bringing him to trial and it's not right to say we've ignored it for five years, that's untrue. For 22 of the last 24 months the delay was due to legal objections to the previous Military Commission. The American Supreme Court overruled the previous commission, a new one's been established, which incidentally leaves open a final appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States and this is a point that many Australians missed; that at the end of this process, which people, some people say is unfair, an appeal lies to the Supreme Court of the United States. Now I think it's very hard for anybody to say the Supreme Court of the United States is not a highly respected court with all of the appropriate judicial trappings and safeguards. But no, we haven't ignored it but we have (inaudible) increasingly frustrated at the delay and even people who are highly critical of Mr Hicks believe that he should get a trial, and it should've happened before now and we press the Americans on a regular basis for it to happen as soon as humanly possible under the new arrangements.
BEAUMONT:
Your increasing frustration seems to have coincided, as I said, with an election year?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's not entirely accurate either. I mean obviously I get asked more questions about it because time has gone on and, I mean, we're doing an interview and you're immediately onto it, so what do you expect me....I can't remain silent, I express my frustration more frequently because I'm asked about the issue more frequently.
BEAUMONT:
So Mr Howard have you set a deadline with the Americans?
PRIME MINISTER:
We are setting, as it were, I suppose a continuing deadline by pushing them almost on a daily and certainly a weekly basis to take the next step so the trial is as soon as possible.
BEAUMONT:
Mr Cheney, the American Vice President, will visit Australia later this week, what will you say to him if he asks for a commitment for more troops in Iraq or Afghanistan?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'll say what I said this morning about that and that is that I don't believe, and this is a view the Government has already formed, I don't believe that there is a case for sending more combat troops. I think our combat commitment, given our other commitments - this is Iraq I'm talking about - is appropriate. We are looking at sending some more trainers because training Iraqis to look after themselves is surely a very desirable objective and the point of the whole exercise, although there we're not talking about large numbers, we're talking about a fairly modest number of additional people who would be involved in training; but whilst you can never rule out some change in the future, and I won't do that, I do not believe that it's necessary or appropriate and nor has a case been made for us to send more combat troops. As for Afghanistan, well I said this morning and I'll repeat it, that we are always reviewing the level, and adequacy and composition of our forces in Afghanistan and we'll go on doing that.
BEAUMONT:
Prime Minister the extra...or the commitment for more trainers is that in addition to what is there currently or is that a rotation of personnel that have been in the region for a while?
PRIME MINISTER:
That would be an addition, but we're not talking about large numbers. It's something that we've discussed and I think there'd be very strong support for it because, even the Labor Party is saying that we should look to the day when the Iraqis can look after themselves, and it would be a bit hypocritical to say that it would be a good idea for the Iraqis to look after themselves but oppose the wherewithal for us to help them achieve that goal.
BEAUMONT:
Mr Howard, you're heading to Western Australia, and just regarding WA state politics, your state Liberal colleagues over here appear to be in disarray, if that's not too strong a term, the former leader Matt Birney has rejected overtures from current leader Paul Omodei to return to the frontbench, does the state of the Parliamentary Liberal Party over here in WA concern you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, I make it a habit to discuss issues with my colleagues. Obviously, I don't like the fact that we're in Opposition in every state, and I hope that changes in New South Wales next month and I'm working very hard to bring it about. I think Paul Omodei is doing a good job in always a challenging situation. When you go into Opposition, the first year of a four year term is hard because you see the next election as being a long way off and it's very difficult to get traction, but I'm looking forward to seeing him. I'm also looking forward to being in Perth again. I should point out in reference to the comment you made at the beginning of the interview that I am a regular visitor to Perth, I don't just come in election years, and in the 10 years that I've been Prime Minister you'll find I've been a very, very regular visitor to Perth. And I might also point out to the Western Australian Labor Party that's attacked my visit as being some kind of Liberal Party exercise and nothing else, that I'll be announcing $181 million extra for Australian schools this afternoon in Perth. Presumably, the Western Australian Labor Party will welcome that announcement and presumably they will acknowledge that Western Australian schools will benefit from that announcement like schools in the rest of the country.
BEAUMONT:
Mr Howard that goes primarily towards infrastructure I understand, I'm presuming that's physical facilities is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, it's class rooms, computer labs, toilet blocks, playground facilities, a lot of the little infrastructure projects that fall through the cracks of the state government education system and we will have expended when this extra money has been spent about $1.2 billion. Now this is money that is asked for to fill needs by local school communities and we deal directly with the school communities and about 6000 government and 1500 non-government schools, and these are the non-government schools that are less well resourced; have received funding to date and it really does represent a significantly new program, it's only been going for two years, I announced it in the last election campaign, it's now been in operation for two years and it's been not only very popular but it's been highly successful. I'm announcing the details of this in Perth and I want to assure the Western Australian Labor Party that Perth and Western Australian government and non-government schools will benefit in the same way as schools in other parts of country are concerned. And I think it's rather absurd of the Labor Party to be, what, attacking me for visiting Western Australia, heavens above.
BEAUMONT:
Prime Minister it's tremendous that the schools, as you mentioned, will get a boost to some of their facility funding measures, their initiatives, but we're having problems over here getting teachers into schools, we're having problems with....we started the year some 260 teachers short, many of those in the country. It would appear that people aren't entering the profession, is there some...do we need to make some changes to the university sector, to the federal system whereby people don't....aren't gravitating towards teaching as a profession long term?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't think it's the fault of the university system, I'm not saying the university system's perfect, it obviously isn't. Well part of the problem is that the incentives for people aren't as great as they should, we must get into the habit, the practice, we must embrace the notion of people being paid more on performance. It's a very responsible job teaching and there should be greater rewards for people who put more into it. That happens in other walks of life and that ought to be the case in teaching. And I think it's a wonderful profession and governments at all levels should do everything they can to support it. But one of the things that we must do is to encourage the state education systems and the independent school systems, and the latter are starting to do it, to pay people more on performance and in that way you'll provide greater incentive and a more active and attractive career path for people to go into teaching.
BEAUMONT:
Mr Howard again on Western Australia, I'm sure you'll get to talk to Paul Omodei when you're here, our daily paper today is reporting that Mr Omodei will encourage you or advocate to you that the Yarragadee aquifer, our aquifer in the south west of Australia should not be tapped into to meet Western Australia's future water needs, will you take heed of that call from him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well who's proposing to do it?
BEAUMONT:
Well the Western Australian Labor Party and the water corporation are saying it's....in concert with the new desalination plant, with water restrictions and the Yarragadee aquifer this is the way forward for West Australia....
PRIME MINISTER:
The reason I asked that question, it wasn't just rhetorical, it was to establish the precise potential role of the Federal Government, but look I would be very interested in talking to Paul. I'm always interested in his views and I know he brings a sincere concern for the people of Western Australia in anything he talks to be me about and I'll certainly be willing to listen to what he's got to say.
BEAUMONT:
Well there is the, of course, the new ministerial position, with Malcolm Turnbull....
PRIME MINISTER:
...that doesn't automatically mean, I mean not every water issue has a federal aspect, that's the only point I'm making.
BEAUMONT:
You'll meet with the Premiers I understand, or certainly.....
PRIME MINISTER:
Later this week.
BEAUMONT:
Later this week, on Friday, with regards to water. Mr Rudd is running around trying to stitch up support from the Premiers for his water initiatives, is he undermining Friday's meeting by doing that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No look, Mr Rudd is just trying to appear relevant and Opposition leaders always do that. But I don't think it's very compelling what he is doing because while he's been saying I want to play a constructive role, all of his shadow ministers have been doing their best to undermine the plan that I put forward. And you can't have your leader saying well I want to be constructive, I want to bring people together and have shadow ministers saying that the plan has not been properly costed; shadow ministers saying there are gaping holes. Mr Rudd himself, not having properly read the plan, he said that the entitlement of Western Australia and Tasmania to share in the $10 billion was not made known when I announced it, it was. It was there in black and white. So I think what you are seeing with Mr Rudd is a search for relevance. I don't think in the end he is going to play any role in making the decision. The decision is made by the elected leaders of the states and the Commonwealth that's how our system works. Obviously he will try and make himself relevant, Opposition leaders do that...
BEAUMONT:
They are Labor Premiers, Mr Howard, as you said and he's the Labor leader, he does have relevance to those Premiers.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, but the relevant thing is what the people have decided. The first obligation of the Labor Premiers of Australia is not to look after Mr Rudd, it's to look after the interests of the people who elected them just as my first obligation is to look after the interests of the people who elected me and what the people of Australia have said to me is, I want you to work with the Labor Premiers and the people of the various states have said to their Premiers they want them to work with me. And we have got to put our political differences aside and this idea that competing political interests or competing interests to the Labor Premiers is to look after Mr Rudd is the very thing we don't want. Their obligation is to look after the interests of the people who elected them. And what the people of Australia are saying is that they like this plan I put forward and they would like it adopted. And I hope that when we have the meeting on Friday the thought uppermost in the minds of those Murray-Darling Basin Premiers is an outcome that will save the Basin not an outcome that will help the Labor Party.
BEAUMONT:
Just on another West Australian, Mr Howard, Dr Ameer Ali the West Australian, he's a former chair of your Muslim Reference Group.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
BEAUMONT:
He made a call over the weekend that the Australian flag should be flown outside Australian mosques in a gesture of integration and national pride. Would you support that push?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I certainly would. I don't think it's something that should be other voluntary. I don't think people should be told that they must fly the Australian flag outside a place of worship. But I think the idea is a very positive one and the fact that somebody of his reputation within the Muslim community should call for it indicates a very positive attitude and it's something that should be welcomed by the Australian community. Here's a man who is a very fine Australian, he's a Muslim, he wants people to work together, he wants a demonstration of the commitment of Islamic Australians to our country. And when things like this happen they should be praised and supported because here's a man trying in a genuine way to help and we should always respond in a positive way. But it's something that obviously has to be voluntary because the display of the flag varies. Many Christian churches, of course, have flags inside often around war memorials. Not all of them but many of them do. So it's something that should be left to the individual congregation and individual religious affiliation but I praise the spirit behind what he said.
BEAUMONT:
Mr Howard, we are running out of time so I won't get to ask you how you think the Australian Cricket Team are going, it's another terrible day for us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it was, but let's not be too hard on them. I mean one day cricket is very variable and we are...
BEAUMONT:
You are still optimistic.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is no doubt that Australia is still the best cricketing nation in the world. There's no doubt about that. But one day cricket can produce unpredictable and perverse results but I think they will do very well at the World Cup. And just finally could I say I was at the soccer grand final last night it was a wonderful sporting spectacle and a huge tribute to the way in which those who follow and love that game have lifted it over the last couple of years.
BEAUMONT:
Yeah, it was terrific. I would like to ask you this though just in closing, if elected will you see your term through to completion?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well my position on that is the same as it has been for years and that is that I am in the hands of my Party and I will always do what is in their best interests and what they want me to do.
BEAUMONT:
So no discussions with Mr Costello at this stage?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, let's not retrace all of that. I mean, I think people are bored to death with that. I dealt with it and he dealt with it last year, we are working very closely together and I constantly say if I go under a bus there's no argument in my mind as to who should take my place and that's Peter. But let's not get into anything beyond that. I am very carefully crossing the road and I will always put myself at the disposal of the Party.
BEAUMONT:
And the bus drivers. PM, the Morgan Poll out today shows that if an election was held today you would lose your seat of Bennelong and are you concerned about this? The last time a sitting PM lost his seat was a long time ago, 1929.
PRIME MINISTER:
I have had polls like that before over the last few years but having said that I have never taken my electorate for granted. I am working hard in my own seat as well as around the country and my seat has been made a bit more marginal by the redistribution. So I wouldn't want any of my electors to think that I would take them for granted.
BEAUMONT:
Alright. Good to talk to you today Mr Howard. Thank you for your time and we will see you in Perth sometime this afternoon.
PRIME MINISTER:
I hope so. Bye bye.