Subjects: stem cell research; gang related crime
E&OE...........
JONES:
Prime Minister good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Alan.
JONES:
Prime Minister, so where does this take you, you';ve given support to embryonic stem cell research but with some restrictions.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, the main restriction is that it should at this time be limited to embryos already in existence and surplus to IVF requirements and which will, if nothing else is done, be destroyed by exposure to room temperature. That will not, on our advice, in any way unreasonably restrict research. There are something in the order of 60 - 70,000 surplus embryos available and the scientific advice we have is that for practical purposes this will place no restriction on research, it does provide the additional safeguard in a difficult area that the argument about whether or not you can effectively legislate to prevent the creation of embryos for research purposes as distinct from reproductive purposes does not arise if you limit it to those that are already in existence.
JONES:
All we';re trying to do I guess is just there's so many - you know how divisive this is within the community, but just to sum up; so you';re saying that the restrictions that you';re imposing are to address the fear that without restriction it wouldn';t be possible to know whether the embryos were genuinely surplus or had been specifically created just for research.
PRIME MINISTER:
That';s correct. And in any event for practical purposes there are so many of them now in existence such a restriction will not constituent any restraint on research.
JONES:
So may you review this though if your researchers told you, the Academy of Sciences and the Australian Research Council and so on who are agreement research should proceed, if the need existed for change in the position you';re now taking?
PRIME MINISTER:
One of the conditions I put forward yesterday was that the whole thing would be would be reviewed after three years.
JONES:
Right.
PRIME MINISTER:
And that allows not only that consideration you';ve outlined to be looked at but also any other considerations which ought to be looked at which might lead to some other different outcome. From a practical point of view what we';re putting forward, it';s careful but it also allows ample opportunity for full research, it provides for a review within a three year period, it provides for parental consent, donor consent.
JONES:
Can I just take that one, parental consent.
PRIME MINISTER:
Those who contribute to the creation of the embryos must give consent.
JONES:
Now Professor Martin Pera of the Monash Institute of Reproduction and Development has said it will be difficult to get retrospective approval.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I';ve had different advice to that effect, we';ll obviously explore with people the precise wording of the conditions relating to consent but you cannot have a situation where people have been donors and they as a matter for conscience do not believe the embryos to which they have contributed should be used research. It would be a violation of their rights and an assault to their conscience to say well we don';t care, we';re going to go ahead and do it anyway. I don';t think that is legitimate and I couldn';t support that. I do recognise that in some cases it might be difficult and there may be in the wording and the formulation of the protocol governing consent allowance can be made to that. But as a principle if consent can be obtained it ought to be obtained.
JONES:
Right. Just in relation to therapeutic cloning you seem to be saying you want to outlaw that, I see that doctors saying that the best way to treat someone, and we';re talking about debilitating disease here, is through therapeutic cloning because the cloned embryos would have the same DNA as their parents. And I see that Professor John White of the Australian Academy of Science saying that the ban of therapeutic cloning is a mistake.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t agree with that and he is not speaking for the entire scientific community. I notice incidentally if you want to quote scientists that Dr Alan Trounson, who is about an eminent in this field as anybody in Australia, has broadly welcomed the proposals that I outlined yesterday.
JONES:
Okay, just one final thing because I guess I';d like to hear your view because it';s the other side of it of course. Theologians are arguing this is a destruction of human life. I notice that Archbishop Peter Carnley is saying that conception is a process that takes some two weeks and must incur inside a womb. So on Dr Carnley';s view a six day old collection of a cell is not a human being.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that';s, I';m not sure that I would totally agree with Dr Carnley on that.
JONES:
So how do you address this question?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well how I address that issue is to ask myself a simple question, if you have a surplus embryo which is going to be perish by exposure to room temperature, which is now what happens, what is the moral difference between that and using it for a positive life enhancing disease curing purpose and in the end my personal decision to support the research was based upon the belief that I could not see the moral difference between those two things. Now I thought about it very hard, I don';t dismiss the views of church leaders, I never have on any issue, I don';t always agree with them but I always listen to them. I can';t bring myself to accept the views I';ve been put by a number of them on this issue because I can';t as a matter of conscience see the moral difference myself between those two things.
JONES:
Okay. Prime Minister at the last federal election you cut a swathe through seats in New South Wales and in particular in Greater Sydney. I';m just looking at the list, Bennelong, Berowra, Cook, Dobell, Hughes, Lindsay, McArthur, McKellar, Macquarie, Mitchell, North Sydney, Parramatta, Robertson, Warringah, Wentworth. This city, and indeed this state now, seems to be under siege in relation to gang related crime, drug related crime, violence in schools, motor vehicle theft and so on. Has the case become so powerful that it is time for the Federal Government to become involved in something like a multi-jurisdictional taskforce made up of Federal Police and State Police under one command structure that can make, in the eyes of the public, a significant attack on this big issue.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well certainly the time has arrived, and arrived before now, for there to be where the national government can do a better job to be a greater involvement by the national government. At the street level the national government can';t do as a good a job as the state government. We don';t have a 17,000 strong New South Wales police force at our disposal and nothing in a federation can absolve the state government from ultimate responsibility for law and order and crime on the streets. I mean in the end that is their responsibility, just as it is my responsibility as Prime Minister and that of the Federal Government to deal with the defence of the country from external attack. I mean if we have a federation we';ve got to have a situation where the buck stops were it ought to and the buck does ultimately stop where it ought to (inaudible) at a state level. Now having said that there are a number of areas particularly in relation to terrorism, in relation to crime that goes across state borders, in relation to the importation of drugs and things of that nature, where obviously the Federal Government has a big role and one of the things that I hope we can do today is to get a more effective understanding between the Commonwealth and the States in relation to these things. We must at a national level have the capacity to call the shots in relation to a national terrorist threat, there are clearly some cases where I believe that if the Australian Federal Police are investigating a crime that goes across state borders they should have the right to prosecute in relation to breaches of state crime so you avoid this sort of ducking and shoving one jurisdiction to the other.
JONES:
We do have a (inaudible), people listening to you say well terrorism';s fine but look I';m worried about my kids at schools.
PRIME MINISTER:
I have to say to you that in the end if you';re not happy with what is being done in relation to the schools you';ve got to do something about the will of the local state government.
JONES:
See the experts say Prime Minister that there is a Middle Eastern crime problem in two states, New South Wales and Victoria. Why wouldn';t you set up a multi-jurisdictional taskforce?
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m not, I';m perfectly happy to have our resources available in a cooperative way. If it wants to be whatever description you use, I';m perfectly happy to be part of that. What I';m saying to you Alan in the end that if you';re the Premier of New South Wales and you';ve got 17,000 New South Wales police, they more than anybody else have the capacity to deal with the gang problem, if I can put it that way. But we don';t have 17,000 police, we have an Army but you don';t use the Army for that sort of thing. In our system of government it is the responsibility of the police. Now we will help, we will cooperate, we will provide information, we will do anything we can. I mean I personally will do anything I can as Prime Minister to help tackle the crime problem, not only the suburbs of Sydney but the suburbs of any city in Australia. It';s not just Sydney, it';s in other parts of Australia and I want to make it very clear to your listeners that anything that we can do to assist the New South Wales Government, they only have to ask and if it';s a reasonable request we';ll respond to it. But this is a problem that transcends rivalry between state and federal governments. I mean my approach is that I';ll work with the New South Wales Government to the maximum extent I can to reduce the dimension of this problem but in the end it';s those 17,000 New South Wales police at the disposal of the New South Wales Government that hold the key to the law enforcement to the challenge on the streets of Sydney.
JONES:
Okay. And I thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
[ends]