Subjects: disability services; drought; Telstra; Gold Card.
E&OE...........
JONES:
Prime Minister, Good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, Alan.
JONES:
PM, I wrote to you as you know on July 16 about the funding of this SACS award. Are you in any position to clarify what is to happen to the short fall of $68.8 million?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don';t except that there';s a Commonwealth short fall of $68 million. The original arrangement was that we, in 1992, we took over employment accommodation services and the states took over disability services, ,I';m sorry, we took over employment services and the states took over accommodation services for the disabled and we agreed to pay them a certain amount a year plus indexation. And since then we have progressively increased the base amount of that funding and whether it was shortly before or shortly after the 16th of July, there was a further offer made of $125 million under that agreement to cover a period of five years and the states were asked to match that money. And it';s my understanding that states are yet to respond to that, although the Commonwealth is hopeful that there will be a positive response [inaudible].
JONES:
So your telling me, in spite of what I have written to you, you';ve seen the details and you';re not prepared to provide another cent to these people? I';m looking at some figures here, the Commonwealth…
PRIME MINISTER:
Alan, I didn';t say that.
JONES:
Well these people are going to be turfed out…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what I would like is that where there are individual cases where you believe that particular services are going close or be downgraded, I would like you to send me the information about those individual services.
JONES:
Surely if your minister is doing her job, which she';s not, and I think she';s…
PRIME MINISTER:
In fairness Alan, I don';t accept that.
JONES:
No you can';t accept it. You won';t say it. But if she';s doing her job, she';ll tell you that.
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m not just doing that in an automatic..[inaudible].
JONES:
No hang on here, I';m not the minister. If she';s doing her job, she';ll be able to tell you where the problems lie. She can';t, because she doesn';t know and she doesn';t know where the disabled people in need are in this country. She couldn't even tell people who represented her the other day exactly where the problems lie. I mean, it is an extraordinary abdication. Prime Minister, I attended a meeting here during the week. Are you aware that people rode their wheelchairs from Kempsey to the city of Sydney to try and get some attention for the prospect that';s in front of them - that their home, in which they';re trying to get reasonable care, will close if this money';s not made available. Now Amanda Vanstone says that $125 million was made available. PM, you know that is growth money. That is money…John, what do you think it is?
PRIME MINISTER:
What is that money…?
JONES:
What do you think that money is?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is additional growth money.
JONES:
Additional growth money. So that means if these people have to use this money to cover the SACS award, which is between 5.4 and 7.5 per cent last November and another three per cent due this year. Supposing they';ve then used that money, okay where then do they get the money for increases in everything else? Like insurance, like other wages, like other costs, like medication. Where do they get the money for that? They haven';t got it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, can I go back to the original arrangement that was made in 1992 between the Commonwealth and the states. Under that arrangement the Commonwealth agreed to take over all of the employment services for the disabled and that meant that we were totally responsible for the funding of those. And we have provided adequate money, I am told, to cover the impact of the SACS award on those Commonwealth employment services. In relation…
JONES:
Well, I';m telling you that the advice you';ve been given by Amanda Vanstone is incorrect.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I haven';t received that advice in relation to the employment services from Amanda. I';ve received that directly from other sources and I';m not saying that I would disbelieve the advice she gave me, don';t get me wrong, but this is a difficult issue I know that and I';m aware that you attended that meeting. And I am endeavouring to answer the legitimate concerns that you have. And I know it sounds, when your talking about the responsibilities of the Commonwealth and State Governments, you are quite entitled to say, well look I don';t care who';s responsible and it';s got to be fixed, and that is a very legitimate thing to say. But I have to answer on behalf of what my Government has done and the arrangement that was entered into 10 years ago in relation to the accommodation services was that the states would run them. We don';t run them. We don';t have any contracts with any of these services that you are talking about, which are accommodation services.
JONES:
No, you';re responsible for a 37 per cent share of the $184.8 million and if Amanda Vanstone says otherwise she doesn';t know her portfolio. Give the job to someone else PM, seriously this woman, this woman has eroded morale in these people. If you could see what I have seen Prime Minister, you wouldn';t be talking like this. You said three years ago, you said you were going to form a social Coalition with community organisation. You said they were essential partners in this Coalition. You said your social Coalition three years ago, draws upon the unique skills of individuals, families, business, Government and community organisations who each contribute to tackling the disadvantage. I';m talking about 250 residential disability services, 170 disability day programs, 300 respite services for people of disabilities such as an older person, 150 youth refuges, 160 meals on wheels. And Amanda Vanstone a) - won';t answer their correspondence and b) - won';t meet with them.
PRIME MINISTER:
Can we just go back to the original question you asked me and I'll come to that question of individual services. That arrangement that we made in relation to the accommodation services was that the states would run them. We don't run them. We don't have any, make any contracts with these individual services. We don't give them money. The arrangement made ten years ago that the states would enter into contracts with them and we would pay the states a certain amount a year plus an indexation factor. Now since that agreement was entered into, on two occasions and there's been a third one now, extra money was given that was built into the base and when the SACS Award came along the assertion was made that there was an obligation under the agreement that we would contribute a certain percentage for that increase. Now that….
JONES:
They're not….37%.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well….I';m sorry on the information I have that is provided for in the agreement.
JONES:
When Mitsubishi were in strife you went straight in and gave them along with the South Australian Government $85 million. When UMP [inaudible].
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that's [inaudible]… Hang on hang on. I mean, are you serious.. [inaudible] …can we just stick to the issue that we're discussing.
JONES:
Well I';m talking about the availability of Commonwealth money. Prime Minister do you understand these are disabled….do you what we are talking about?
PRIME MINISTER:
Alan I do.
JONES:
Well how can you talk like you're talking now about $60 million. I mean I wrote to you about a 27 year old. He's got….
PRIME MINISTER:
I read your letter.
JONES:
Well let me tell my listeners Prime Minister. He's got Prader Willi syndrome. He's got flaccid muscles, he's got intellectual impairment, he's got a lack of productive male hormones, he's got obsessive compulsive disorder, He weighs 115 kilos. He can't walk, stand or support his own weight. He and his mother wanted to meet with Amanda Vanstone. She wouldn't meet and she said well if you want to fly over to Canberra I'll see you. Shouldn't the government know, have a register of where these people are. That person has no home Prime Minister. He's being looked after by 70 year old parents.
PRIME MINISTER:
Can I tell you, I mean….
JONES:
[inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I answer that?
JONES:
Well PM I don't know. Is the answer yes, how can there be an answer?
PRIME MINISTER:
You asked me should there be a register, yes there should.
JONES:
Well what has Amanda Vanstone done about that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well how can the Federal Government compile a register when all of the arrangements for the operation of these….
JONES:
Call a meeting of these ministers.
PRIME MINISTER:
Can I just please finish my answer. How can the Federal Government compile a register of something like that if the services that those people seek are all operated by states and the information regarding those services will not be provided to the Federal Government by individual state governments? Can I just say Alan again in relation to particular services that you believe and on your information are about to close or in danger of being downgraded I would like you to send me details of those and I will have each and every one of them examined.
JONES:
In my letter to you I told you about 240 people in Western Australian alone who can't, don't have group home accommodation. This is a sector under funded in this rich country of Australia by about a billion dollars. They don't have a group home, they're being looked after….that person I';m reading out to you is being looked after by parents who are elderly. Amanda Vanstone doesn't even meet these people. She won't answer their letters. What does the Prime Minister of Australia say when these people can't make representation to the minister concerned?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I have asked for an explanation as to unanswered correspondence. In relation to the question of whether she did or didn't meet somebody on a particular occasion I will just have to get more information about that. But Alan I can't, I mean it is not reasonable to expect me to know the daily movements and the daily diaries of each of my individual…..
JONES:
Let me just tell you Prime Minister so that my listeners know, this person, another person wanted to meet Mrs Vanstone in Melbourne, is the father of a 17 year old who's been profoundly and intellectually disabled since birth. I told you this in my letter to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I read that.
JONES:
He's nonverbal, incontinent, needs to be showered, fed and toileted, he has regular seizures, he needs care 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. He can't get into a home and Mrs Vanstone would not meet with the father. I told you that in the letter PM. What's been done about it? Nothing. Are we a civilised society PM or aren't we?
PRIME MINISTER:
We are a civilised society and I think it's a bit unfair that you in relation to Amanda Vanstone to suggest that she's insensitive and not behaving in a civilised fashion. I';ve certainly not found that in relation to her. This is a difficult emotional area for reasons that I think everybody understands and like all areas that involve a joint Commonwealth/State responsibility of some kind there's always obscurity as to who's responsible and there's always a want on behalf of State governments whenever there's an additional financial pressure to say well it's a Commonwealth responsibility, and if only the commonwealth would give us more money we'd …
JONES:
Okay. Well why don't you give them the $68 million now and take it off something that might occur next June 30 so that these people know that they won't be turfed out? You're the Prime Minister of Australia.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's not quite simple as that Alan because…..
JONES:
It's not simple for the mums and dads.
PRIME MINISTER:
I understand that but I mean, you say well take it off something else. But the other thing that you're taking it off that has a group of people who are affected in a very direct fashion. I mean would that life were as simple as that. Alan I have read through all of the material you have sent me before this interview and I've got a lot of extensive briefing from my own department as well as…..and I've spoken to Amanda Vanstone. We have made an additional offer of $125 million. I don't accept that under the terms of the agreement the Commonwealth has got to contribute that $68 million. I don't accept that. That's not….
JONES:
Okay well I can't do any more than I've done and I can't do any more. PM can I just ask you about the stock market at the moment. Australians have a stack of money tied up, $500 billion in superannuation. Would there be any virtue in issuing some government bonds which could be contributed to by superannuation funds to water Australia. There is a massive drought on at the moment, Queensland and New South Wales abominable, and yet we're still going around in a circle. We don't seem to be any further ahead in addressing drought and trying to cover the symptoms of it than we were ten years ago when there was a similar drought of these proportions. Would you be prepared to fund an actuarial study to see how we would get the water that we have to where it's needed?
PRIME MINISTER:
Alan I'll consider that. I think it's a very optimistic country and a very optimistic Prime Minister who thinks that you can find some kind of permanent answer to the problem of drought. I think you probably can ameliorate it and I'll consider that.
JONES:
Well supposing we had the Prime Minister's views on water resources, I know that Jeff Kennett talked about this some years ago, to investigate urgently the adequate collection and storage and distribution of water or the pricing of water, or the elimination of the waste of water. Shouldn't this be high on the agenda given the kind of devastation it wreaks on parts of Australia every 18 months?
PRIME MINISTER:
I can't disagree with that and I think that is worth consideration.
JONES:
And one final thing Prime Minister. Telstra, the privatisation of Telstra. Would you, if you could get the numbers in the Senate would you privatise Telstra notwithstanding the difficulties that people might have in the electorate towards the privatisation of it.
PRIME MINISTER:
The condition is that if we are satisfied that services in rural Australia are up to scratch. The fact that it's not something that has top of the head popularity is not of itself a reason not to go ahead with privatisation because we did say we were going to do it during the election campaign. It is part of our policy and if I had read opinion polls on everything that I thought of doing over six years I wouldn't have introduced the new taxation system and there are many of other things I wouldn't have done.
JONES:
You did say also, a caller rang this morning, that you would issue the Gold Pass to those who'd served overseas [inaudible] Gold Pass to people who are under 70.
PRIME MINISTER:
Or over 70 who have qualifying service.
JONES:
Yes [inaudible].
PRIME MINISTER:
Qualifying service. Precisely what qualifying service means in those terms, to explain to your listeners. But not everybody who was in forces and who's over 70 automatically qualifies for the Gold Card. There are some forms of service that historically have not qualified for the Gold Card.
JONES:
Okay. PM thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
[ends]