Subjects: asylum seekers; visit to the United States and Indonesia
E&OE...........
LIEBMANN:
And the Prime Minister joins us now on the Today programme for his first live television interview for 2002. Prime Minister good morning to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Steve, good to be back.
LIEBMANN:
Thank you, nice to have you back. Can I begin by asking you where in your priority agenda for this new political year does the refugee crisis sit?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it';s very important, it';s not the only issue but it continues to be one of the more difficult issues that this country has faced. Nobody likes the present situation, we don';t like having to detain people but there is no alternative if we are to keep control of the flow of people into this country. And I want to make it very clear that we don';t intent to abandon the detention policy and incidentally that detention policy was endorsed and started before we came to Government. So it';s not something that';s just come along in the last few months in the atmosphere of an election campaign as some commentators would have the Australian public believe. There really is no alternative until through other means and agreements, and we';re working very hard on those,the flow of people wanting to come to this country illegally is stopped.
LIEBMANN:
Prime Minister, you say there really is no alternative but others are coming up with suggested alternatives for example welfare groups are saying release the refugees, we';ll look after them. The United Nations is saying today asylum seekers should not be locked up. Do you acknowledge, you';ve got a problem, you';re getting bad press on this at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Steve, neither of those solutions is a solution. If they were released into the care of welfare groups that would encourage more people to come. I mean if the aim of the policy is to prevent people coming here illegally, to abandon a policy of detention for people who do come here illegally will completely destroy part of the policy. And I mean this is, it seems to me to be an exercise in common sense that if you make it attractive in terms of people knowing that ultimately they will be released more or less into the Australian community despite the fact that they haven';t established a refugee claim, if you send that signal around the world you';re going to encourage more people to come to this country. Now I don';t enjoy, Philip Ruddock doesn';t enjoy, the present situation but nobody should think that we';re going to abandon the policy because we';re getting a few bad headlines and in the end headlines are the product of the personal views of journalists, they don';t necessarily represent distilled public opinion and they don';t necessarily carry any more veracity or moral clout than the views that you or I or anybody else in the community may have. So I don';t think we should ever be too heavily intimidated by headlines.
LIEBMANN:
Prime Minister though with respect it';s not just the views of certain members of the media, certain journalists, I mean the former adviser Neville Roach in the Sydney Morning Herald and I guess the Age today is saying that the asylum seeker controversy has unquestionably done serious damage to Australia';s multicultural fabric and he says, quote, “I believe that a different leadership approach, less extreme and more humanitarian is the way to go.”
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t agree with that.
LIEBMANN:
Okay.
PRIME MINISTER:
I simply don';t. And Steve there seems now to be, you';re suggesting that I should change because of opinion and a yet a few weeks ago or even now I';m accused of embracing this policy because of public support. The reality is that there is no alternative until we can reach an agreement with countries like Indonesia that does mean that in future people don';t seek to come here illegally. Now people decry the so called Pacific Solution. I';m not saying the Pacific Solution has solved the problem, but I do say this, that it has made a significant contribution, there have been no boats bringing people to this country now for some weeks, there has been a slow down compared with a similar period in earlier years in the number of people attempting to come to this country. I do believe that one of the reasons why that has occurred is that people smugglers now find it more difficult to convince people that it is easy to come to Australia illegally. Now that after all is one of the objectives of the policy.
LIEBMANN:
So you';re saying that those who are criticising your Government';s position on this, the lawyers, the doctors, the churches, the United Nations, they';ve all got it wrong.
PRIME MINISTER:
No,well, first of all, some lawyers are criticising us, some doctors are criticising us and some people in churches are criticising us. It doesn';t mean that all lawyers, all doctors and all churches are criticising it. We are a diverse society and people have diverse views and you always get criticised in government and I guess they';ll go on criticising it. But what I';m saying to my critics and the Government';s critics are, we don';t like it but we are doing our best in the circumstances to ensure that the people in detention are given proper medical assistance, they';re properly housed, they are well fed. The disturbances are acts designed to change policy. They are not of themselves and only a demonstration against the detention conditions. And the Chairman of the Government';s own Negotiating Committee, John Hodges, was quoted in the press this morning as talking about air conditioned circumstances, well fed, well housed and proper medical attention. Now, in those circumstances I have to say, with great respect to the Government';s critics, although we don';t like having to impose a policy of mandatory detention, those conditions are better than many people experience in many of the refugee camps around the world and I';m talking here of people who are waiting to win legal acceptance into this country and into the precious few other countries around the world who, like Australia, will take refugees.
LIEBMANN:
Prime Minister, you head out on the first of your overseas trips for this year on Monday. You';re going to New York.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am, yes.
LIEBMANN:
Is there a danger that our policy on refugees and asylum seekers might overshadow the issues you want to focus on in New York?
PRIME MINISTER:
I wouldn';t expect so, I mean, they may in the reporting of some of the media but I don';t for a moment imagine that those things are going to overshadow the discussions that I';m likely to have in New York.
LIEBMANN:
So what do you want to talk about in the United States?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I want to talk about the strength of the Australian economy. I want to talk about the cooperation between Australia and other nations in the world fight against terrorism. I want the opportunity to talk to the United Nations Security Council about post-independence arrangements in East Timor. And, of course, Australia led the international effort that delivered freedom to the people of East Timor and we have a very strong, legitimate, ongoing interest in that. And if you';re talking about the international reputation of this country, what we did in relation to East Timor did great things for the international reputation of this country because we were seen as standing up for a group of people who needed assistance. So I don';t expect that in reality this issue will overshadow my trip, I don';t think that for a moment. It may in some of the reporting but I';m used to that and I won';t be particularly troubled by it.
LIEBMANN:
You';re not, I think I';m right, you';re not scheduled to meet up with President Bush.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, it';s not meant to be - I';m going just to the world economic forum in New York. I will be seeing the Secretary of State, Colin Powell. I expect to share a platform with him with one of the panel sessions but it is not a government visit and I haven';t sought any meetings with the President. I saw him last year in September, the day before the terrorist attack, and I saw him again in Shanghai at the APEC meeting and there';s no particular purpose in seeking another meeting on this occasion. I';m only going to be in New York for four days and then I';m flying to Indonesia to have a three-day visit to that country and I';m looking forward very much to talking to President Megawati.
LIEBMANN:
Can you come up with an agreement with her and between the two governments on the asylum seekers, on the refugee problem?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t expect for a moment that our meeting is going to produce that agreement but it';s part of the confidence and friendship building process at a senior government level, at a head of government level, between Australia and Indonesia. There is to be a conference, a regional conference, on these matters in Jakarta after my visit and that will be jointly chaired by Australia and Indonesia and it will be attended, of course, by Mr Ruddock and others.
LIEBMANN:
All right, Prime Minister, thank you for joining us this morning. Travel safely and we look forward to talking to you again in the programme throughout the year.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks.
[Ends]