23 September 2002
E&OE……………………………
ANDERSSON:
Are you disappointed with the outcome of this meeting?
PRIME MINISTER:
I would have liked the other two members of the Troika to have had the same view in favour of full suspension. I think full suspension is justified and appropriate given what has happened over the last six months.
ANDERSSON:
What exactly does the Troika want Zimbabwe to do in order to stave off the possibility of full suspension and further sanctions?
PRIME MINISTER:
Take some notice of the concerns expressed in March when we met in London, particularly the concerns about the way the election was conducted. We want greater political reconciliation inside Zimbabwe. But the main concern that the Commonwealth had was the way in which the election was conducted.
ANDERSSON:
What can Mugabe do about that now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well certainly some acknowledgement and recognition of a near unanimous finding of a Commonwealth Observer Group. If the Commonwealth stands for anything it has to stand for democratic values. It’s been very good at upholding them, very good at spreading democratic governance within its reaches and it’s those values that I’m concerned about most of all.
ANDERSSON:
In the meeting today did the three members of the Troika discuss practical things that they would actually like to see Zimbabwe do in the next six months?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the first thing that would help would be for them to actually be able to engage with Zimbabwe as a Commonwealth. The government of Zimbabwe won’t even allow the Secretary General of the Commonwealth to visit that country to talk about the Commonwealth’s concerns. Sure there’s bilateral dialogue between South Africa and Zimbabwe and Zimbabwe and other African countries, but as a Commonwealth Zimbabwe has treated us really in a contemptuous fashion since March of this year.
ANDERSSON:
And doesn’t it make the Commonwealth, especially the Troika, look very toothless indeed if they can’t come to an agreement on what to do about this, they can’t come to an agreement on what to do about the fact that President Mugabe hasn’t turned up when you have flown half way across the world….?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can only speak for myself. I think it was clear that what should have happened today was full suspension and that’s what I argued for. My other two colleagues didn’t want to go that far and they’ve explained their reasons for their position. But I think the Commonwealth is the poorer because there hasn’t been uniminity on this view. But the reasons for the differences have been explained. The Commonwealth will continue of course and we’ll be back again in six months time and unless the situation has changed significantly then the view I will bring to those discussions will be the same as I’ve brought to today’s discussions.
ANDERSSON:
Do you believe that other members of the Troika would be prepared to back full suspension in six months if there’s been no progress in Zimbabwe?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is a question you’ll have to ask them. It’s not really a question I would presume to answer on their behalf.
ANDERSSON:
So you couldn’t predict whether suspension is something that is inevitable?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well all I can say is I think it is warranted on the facts as available to me and available to the Commonwealth as we speak.
ANDERSSON:
Why is it that you think pressure is going to work with President Mugabe, the pressure of suspension, exclusion, reservation? Why do you think that would have an effect?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it’s a question of my dealing with and talking about things over which I have control in that the Troika has power to ultimately move to full suspension and I think the circumstances warranted that today. Unless things change then the same circumstances will warrant that in six months time.
ANDERSSON:
Do you think that this was in a sense one of the last chances for a proper dialogue between President Mugabe and other world leaders given the fact that there were some leaders here who are fairly close to him. People like President Obasanjo who’s known him for many years?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I always hesitate to use absolute terms like last chance. When you’re in politics you should always hesitate to use those. But the evidence so far is discouraging, very discouraging.
ANDERSSON:
Where do you see things going from here with Zimbabwe…?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Zimbabwe is a sad country and our argument is not with the people of Zimbabwe. We have a lot of concern for them, we have a lot of interest in them. But clearly the country is poorly governed, clearly the last election was improperly conducted. That’s not my finding. It’s the finding of a multination Commonwealth Observer Group.
ANDERSSON:
Do you feel that there’s any room for dialogue between President Mugabe and the other Troika members, dialogue that might perhaps lead to some kind of progress?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think there’s plenty of talk between them on a bilateral basis but so far all attempts to engage the government of Zimbabwe in dialogue have been rebuffed. President Mugabe was invited to come to this meeting and he turned down that invitation. I think it would have been a marvellous opportunity to have started the dialogue and certainly it would have given a different complexion to the meeting.
ANDERSSON:
How can you quantify what’s going on Zimbabwe? I mean is it something that you see as tragic…?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it’s a very sad country. It has a lot of problems and I think those problems have been made worse by bad government.
ANDERSSON:
Do you directly relate that to President Robert Mugabe or do you see it as a wider governmental issue….?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well clearly the circumstances inside the country have declined a lot in many ways over recent years and I don’t think there’s any doubt about that.
ANDERSSON:
Do you think international pressure will do anything, more isolation will do anything to persuade President Mugabe to change his ways?
PRIME MINISTER:
There is reason why an organisation like the Commonwealth takes a stand or should take a stand quite apart from the impact it might have. I mean we are an organisation that believes in democratic processes and it’s the finding of a Commonwealth Observer Group including the representatives of many African countries that the last election was improper.
ANDERSSON:
But are you a person who believes that pressure and isolation can lead to results or do you just see that the prospect of more sanctions as the only option because there’s nothing else you can do whether or not it bears fruit?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well history tells us that international pressure over time does have an effect. Plainly that was the case in South Africa.
ANDERSSON:
But it’s not happening at the moment in a serious way in Zimbabwe.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don’t think you’ve seen the end of international reaction.
[ends]