Subjects: Zimbabwe
E&OE...........
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
PRESENTER:
How did you persuade Thabo Mbeki who was, it seemed, right up until the last minute very reluctant to denounce his neighbour?
PRIME MINISTER:
The strength of the Commonwealth observer group report was such that you couldn't avoid it and still retain credibility. We were given a clear instruction by the Coolum meeting, wait for the election, read the Commonwealth observer group report, if that report is adverse then you must look at the Harare declaration and the Millbrook action plan and decide what action should be taken against Zimbabwe. If we had fudged that in some way or walked away from it then we'd have done a lot of damage to the Commonwealth's credibility and record of consistency in these matters and we would have also done a lot of damage to our own personal credibility as leaders committed to the democratic principles of the organisation.
PRESENTER:
So did you make it clear to Thabo Mbeki that it wasn't just the reputation of Zimbabwe or indeed the Commonwealth that was on the line here but according to how he personally responded it was South Africa's own credibility, it's own reputation as a reliable democracy that was also at stake.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I didn't, of course, single out South Africa. There were issues involved for Australia and for Nigeria. We were all very conscious that because there were only three of us, there was a very bright light on us and people would be expecting us to take action consistent with the principles on which the Commonwealth is erected. It's turned out to be the case that the device of establishing a troika and giving that body the delegated power to take the decision has delivered a far better outcome than if we had tried to take the decision in a much larger meeting.
PRESENTER:
And what was that meeting like yesterday? Did you come to a vote?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. It emerged by consensus. It was a difficult meeting but it certainly wasn't an acrimonious meeting and both of my colleagues were very constructive. We were all very conscious of what was in the observer group report and prior to leaving Australia I had a telephone hook up with the four Australian observers in Zimbabwe. They were then still in Harare and they gave me an unmistakable message; it was not a free and fair election. It was anything but. It failed that test and the Commonwealth observer group made that plain and that is why we had to take action. And I am very pleased we did. At the end of that twelve-month period, the three of us will revisit the issue but we';ll revisit it against the background of the Harare principles.
PRESENTER:
And in the meantime what do you do? There must surely be a back channel, a way of trying to persuade, a strategy to persuade, Robert Mugabe to come back into the fold?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there is. There will be a lot. Nigeria and South Africa will play a role in that. The Commonwealth Secretary-General will play a role in that.
PRESENTER:
What will you do?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, people will go to Zimbabwe. We will encourage Mugabe's group and the Opposition to sit down and talk in a reconciliatory manner about the future.
PRESENTER:
Well it's not going to happen, is it? Both sides have made that pretty clear, especially Zanu-PF.
PRIME MINISTER:
It's not entirely clear to me from what I was told yesterday by my Nigerian and South African colleagues, it is not entirely clear that it won't happen. I believe that, on the basis of what I was told yesterday, there is a possibility of there being more effective dialogue and the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth will be involved. He will be, I understand, be making contact with the Zimbabwean government over the next few days. And there hasn't been any contact at that level for some time. So there is a marginally better climate. I am not starry eyed about this because what has gone on there has been grim in the extreme. There has been a violation of human rights, there has been electoral rigging, there have been all the things that have been itemised in the Commonwealth observer group report but we have had something of a break through and the credibility of the Commonwealth and its consistency has been preserved.
PRESENTER:
Mr Howard, thank you very much.
[ends]